Death OF the AT…

[Steven Hanlon]

Hikers behaving badly… some serious stuff has been happening along the AT this year with some serious consequences for everyone… "a small Pennsylvania community’s recent decision to shutter the sleeping quarters it had offered for decades in the basement of its municipal building." and this sobering comment: "Jensen Bissell, director of the park, said in a letter to the Appalachian Trail Conservancy late last year that AT hikers are “open and deliberate in their desire for freedom from all rules and regulations.” He warns that the trail may need to end somewhere besides Katahdin if something doesn’t change soon."

[Michael Driscoll]

Wait until Redford does 'wild' comes out this week…

[Jennifer Mitol]

The other sobering thought here is that several trail angels on the PCT Facebook pages are saying the same things about the PCT, that some hikers are behaving entitled and otherwise acting poorly on the trail. What's going on???

[Ken Thompson]

"What's going on???" 1)The Entitlement Generation has come of age. 2)Doing the trails has become the thing to do instead of being something that called to you. 3)Twice as many people on the planet since you were a kid. 4)People suck. http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=106553&skip_to_post=897884#897884

[Billy Ray]

I live in the Sierra and day hike portions of the PCT several times a week when I am home. I have been doing this for about 25 years. I make it a point to chat with the PCT hikers and see how it's going for them and what gear they like… and what they don't. Sometimes give them a ride to town for resupply. But this year stands out in two ways: 1) There are a lot more people doing the PCT this year. A LOT MORE! 2) In the past all PCT hikers I encountered have been really mellow and friendly; this year there is a nasty attitude… not all, but many. Billy

[Scott S]

I doubt that the percentage of thru-hikers causing problems has increased compared to the past. But the total numbers of hikers has gone up so much that even if only 1 or 2 % of hikers are a problem, 1 or 2% of 2,000 or 3,000 thru-hikers is a lot of assholes, and people in towns and trail managers are starting to notice. Assholes are always going to be there, but this is a solvable problem if you just limit the number of hikers allowed to thru-hike each year. With all the negative publicity coming from the trail, I fully expect quotas and a real permit system (not like the half-assed system currently on the PCT) on the PCT and AT in the near future, and the trails will be better for it. BTW, the real long-term solution is to build more long trails to take some of the burden off the AT and PCT!

[Roger Caffin]

> the real long-term solution is to build more long trails to take some of the burden > off the AT and PCT! The logical result of that idea is that we could have 5 or 10 parallel trails each 100 yards away from the next one. Bit like a Los Angeles freeway. It's a problem. Cheers

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

The popularity of backpacking is being influenced by the entertainment industry. Yes there will a large spike in people backpacking due to movies and such. And a bunch of people will hop on the bus because it is fashionable and trendy. In a short while, this will die down. The good news is; 1) Some people will be truly interesting in backpacking and they can add a lot to the community 2) There should be a huge pile of fairly new gear for re-sale as people find out that through hiking / backpacking is not really "their thing" 3) Awareness that these trails/parks need to be preserved 4) Maybe some of these parks can learn a little latitude, getting a ticket for spray champagne seems excess. Tempest in a teapot – this will blow over My 2 cents

[Anonymous]

"1)The Entitlement Generation has come of age." Let's just say The Entitlement Generation has come. It is becoming a problem on trails in general, not just the PCT/AT. Our local trails up here are rapidly becoming garbage dumps, and it tracks directly with the increase in self entitled young a$$holes making north of $100,000 fresh out of university flocking to the trails to display the physical prowess. This is not to say ALL of them, but a disturbingly high percentage of them are sorely lacking in basic manners, a wilderness ethic, and knowledge of the basic rules of the road for trail hiking. Not sure what the answer is, or even if there is an answer, but they sorely try the patience of us old timers.

[J-L]

I wonder where you guys hike sometimes. I generally have positive experiences with hikers of all ages and backgrounds, even on local city trails. I actually think the most entitled people on the trail are horsepackers. But there's this: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-entitled-generation-isnt-millennials-2015-1

[Ken Thompson]

Aren't we entitled to clickable links? Sheesh!

[rmeurant]

Here in Korea, the enlightened populace tidily package their garbage into plastic shopping bags, and thoughtfully wedge them into the nearest tree, no doubt to reaffirm to other hikers that the wilderness is safe, as it's populated. Trail heads are considerately marked with white and brown piles of tissue paper to orient those who follow. Plastic bottles are conveniently located close to the trail to guide others. It's a wonderful world!

[Mitchell Ebbott]

"1)The Entitlement Generation has come of age." You're talking about baby boomers, right? EDIT: oops, John hit that point ahead of me.

[Michael Gunderloy]

I spent quite a while being angry at horsepackers (pretty sure they're the only ones who would pack lousy beer ten miles back and chuck the cans in the woods – backpackers would at least carry GOOD beer!). Then I decided that I was less stressed being grateful to them for giving me an opportunity to leave things better than I found them by packing their empties out for them. And if y'all would stop telling people how enjoyable backpacking can be when they lighten their load, maybe we wouldn't have so many people trying it!

[Bill Reynolds]

The biggest problem I saw on the AT is when mostly young people travel in large groups. They overwhelm shelters, camping spots, and hostels.

[Brian Lewis]

Scott said: "BTW, the real long-term solution is to build more long trails to take some of the burden off the AT and PCT!" I hiked half the Florida Trail early this year and somewhat less than half of the PNT last year; I'll hike the other parts of those trails in 2016. Both of these trails are in the 1100 to 1200 mile range. Then who knows, the Arizona Trail, Superior Hiking Trail, … there are LOTS of fairly long distance hiking trails already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-distance_trails_in_the_United_States If you're talking about "trails on training wheels" — i.e., very well marked with well researched resupply points, trail 'culture', etc, then yes. But as has been suggested, if enough of our supposed brethren (and "sistren" if that's a word) mess it up for the rest of us, more hostels and trail angels will bar their doors to us on the PCT and AT. IMO that just means it's even more useful to figure out how to hike some of the many many (many) trails that already do exist, without needing quite such an excellent support structure. And such support structure does exist anyway, just not with so very much detail and options. There's only one Halfmile for example (PCT). You're not going to get 300 on-trail shelters (AT). But there's a Florida Trail association, they even have their own kickoff event, Guthook guides exist for the FT now, and you can (in fact should) hike the friggin' thing in January! Ditto much of that for the PNT and almost certainly many other long distance trails in the U.S. You typically do have to accept more road walking. That's the reality of long distance backpacking to some degree in any event. So yeah — I think it would be good if we could spread out. Too many hikers concentrated on a couple of trails, whereas in some ways, increased numbers could help on other trails? Economy of scale for the sort of support that we've long enjoyed on the PCT and AT? For those that burn to hike the PCT and/or AT, it's not THAT hard to avoid the herd. I started the AT in February (in 2010) and found that worked out well. Hiking the first month of it with a friend last year we used the same strategy and it still worked out quite well. Variable weather patterns are starting to make some hash out of the dynamics that traditionally crammed everyone together on the PCT, and you don't HAVE to attend the ADZPCTKO (kickoff) event, or just go another year for the party. I do agree that it makes sense to stay away from "the herd" for a couple of years following major media coverage.

[W I S N E R !]

Cross-generational angst is always amusing. Need I remind people what generation birthed, raised, and set the stage for the so-called "entitlement generation"? But it's especially rich when I hear older generations lament the size of the population. I may be younger than some, but I do know where babies come from. But hey older folks, it's not entirely your fault the world is so crowded. With Marvin Gaye and Al Green simultaneously churning out hits in the 60s and 70s, I get it. It was a passionate time. You were probably powerless to stop the lovin'. I know it's no coincidence that Marvin released "Lets Get It On" in '73 and I was born soon after. If "kids these days" got you down, I suggest mentoring some. (Then again, I can think of quite a few older folks that could use a stern talking' to from some bright and passionate youngsters.) Hate to break the news folks, but we're all in this together and nobody gets out alive. Let's Get It On

[J-L]

"Aren't we entitled to clickable links? Sheesh!" Sorry, Ken, I just assumed someone would do it for me :) I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if trail angels and hostels shutter their doors to thru-hikers. Maybe less support is better for the trail. Paul's written about this before. If I was to do a long hike, I know it would not be the PCT or AT: http://www.pmags.com/grassroots-to-organized-the-changing-nature-of-thru-hikes

[Frank T]

3)Twice as many people on the planet since you were a kid. 4)People suck.

There must be some exponential relationship, because people suck way more than twice as much as when I was a kid.

[Michael Samford]

Nice.

[Jeffs Eleven]

Hopefully Darwin will take advantage of all the fresh meat.

[Cameron M]

This summer I spent some time on the trail "embedded" with some PCT friends, and did two other trips that overlapped the JMT. My observations: •The JMT is basically the same, just more people, and many more newbies with overly heavy brand new REI stuff. My wife and I started calling it "Babewatch", because of the marked increase of single and paired younger females. Many reported that they became aware of the trail because of some Netflix film, and not just "Wild". They were all good people, just more of them. •There is now a definite PCT party atmosphere that I think mirrors what has been happening on the AT for even longer. The serious hikers striate pretty quickly and begin switching up sections to avoid crowds, fires etc. It was in places like Lone Pine, Tuolumne and Bishop that I observed larger groups where I got the impression that the social and party aspects where more important than the hike. Lots of dope smoking. In Bishop there was one group of about 12 vagabonds walking around in tow behind their Lord of the Flies "leader", some Aussie in a kilt who introduced himself to me to show that he was in charge and was the "go-to" guy. Half of them were shirtless, barefoot and proudly filthy. Overheard conversation: "I can totally see you teaching guitar". I stopped in at the hiker's hostel and the scene was pretty much exactly like what I used to see at hostels in Europe when I was hitchiker in the seventies, a mixture of types but including lots of marginal pachouli-oil drifter types. Everyone was very social and because of my pack and clothes they knew I was a hiker and so approached me to chat and exchange trail names. Several told me that they were only doing 8 miles a day, treating it like a moving party, with no intention of completing the trail. So yeah, the goodwill of townies and angels will get tested until the party moves on to somewhere else. Build more trails? I just finished a ten-day Yosemite hike, one of the most popular U.S. Park destinations in what may be the most popular month, and over the last four days I saw a grand total of 13 people. Half of the people I met were foreigners who came for the solitude and good weather. I had two 24 hour periods where I saw no people and one bear. Totally.

[Simon Kenton]

My wife and I had a similar experience in that area of the PCT this year, Cameron. Our very first night from Campo, the tent site was destroyed. Toilet paper and used band aids everywhere, and we were only 8 miles in. We were fairly behind the crowd which contributed to walking with trash, both people and refuse. I don't really understand why people call themselves, "Hiker trash"? I've experienced some pretty downtrodden individuals working in rural areas of Oklahoma and Texas, people who literally call themselves "white trash" or "redneck" and I don't understand why hikers would want to emulate this and embrace it. We caught up to the main herd by Kennedy Meadows South. We discussed getting off the trail there, due to our negative experiences with hikers. People were very drunk and sleeping in walkways on the porch, one drunk guy stood up and blocked my way. I perceived it as aggressive but later he was being friendly to me. Turns out he had soiled himself early in his hike and that was one of the things he was known for. People also stayed up late into the night at KM after consuming mushrooms. I think people should do what they want as long as it doesn't negatively effect others, but this was a shared space and a launching point to the Sierra. Not fun to be kept up all night listening to others giggle on their shroom trip while trying to get a good night's rest. Crabtree Meadows, typically the PCT stop before Whitney, was another standout experience. We arrived later in the day to a mostly empty camp. It's an amazingly beautiful area, and the hike to it is pretty good. People started to trickle in and get into their shelters, most were courteous and tired. About 10-15 stayed up past 11pm, talking loudly about the craziest places they've had sex and how they want to do it on top of Mt. Whitney. Doesn't sound late but when you want to get up early, it was pretty annoying. Not to make excuses for bad behavior, it seemed like these hikers were more oblivious than bad people. Most just didn't have the experience to know how to behave in a shared setting in the outdoors. And it's not like I still don't dream about the PCT, I did so last night. My wife and I waited about three weeks to give her foot time to heal and watch some storms go by. When we got back on the trail, we were headed south from Echo back to Bishop (were we left the trail). In the three days we were on the trail, it seemed as though a lot of hikers had washed out. Maybe the Sierra pushed the inexperienced off the trail, or maybe they were still in Bishop and Mammoth partying, I don't know. My wife's foot didn't get better so her hike was done, which ultimately ended my hike too. I just wasn't prepared to hike without her. All that said, and I'm sorry it's so long, I met so many amazing people on the trail it far outweighs the negative. I was conflicted about posting this but I haven't had the chance to vent it here yet. I still plan on returning to the PCT next year. Solo, but far ahead of the pack (early April). Hopefully, I'll still meet interesting people and my snow skills will be sufficient after spending the winter in the Tahoe area. TLDR : quite a few experiences with oblivious hikers this year on the PCT, but it's still the PCT and that's good enough to want to be there every second.

[Dean F.]

I'll go with Scott- it's just a crowding issue. There are always a few bad apples in the barrel, and when the barrel is larger there are more bad apples. You recall what it was like living in a dormitory? There was always some a-hole moving furniture at 2:00 am, or walking up and down the hall screaming his buddy's name because he couldn't remember which room is his, etc. Inconsiderate a-holes abound. I can assure you that living in a barracks is identical.

[Anonymous]

"I'll go with Scott- it's just a crowding issue." Worth discussing in this context? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink https://nihrecord.nih.gov/newsletters/2008/07_25_2008/story1.htm#top https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/5597/V71N02_065.pdf;jsessionid=82FBD9541B3A16F20D67B8BCCD9E8D42?sequence=1

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