Solid fuel users

Allison,

That sound like an incredibly sweet little system they've put together… I can't wait to see it out (big fan of the TD guys)… I must say, in my mind I can't picture what they've done to 'regulate' the burner even from your descriptions… but it sound pretty cool…

allison,

I posted my test results here on 1/17/07. Basically half an Esbit tab never brought 12 ounces of water to a boil. Half a Firelight tab did it in 9 minutes.

–Ken

Alright – I took the plunge and just ordered a caldera cone and the new esbit stove from Trail Designs.

Can the experienced esbit stovers give me some tips.
What's up with thre residue ? Do I need a bomb proof stuff sack or will my pack smell like dead fish? Tips on lighting, boil times, weather conditions. I'm ready to jump into this style of cooking as I didn't see that much of an advantage with alcohol over my canister stove. ( carry a heavy cansiter – or carry a heavy alcohol filled fuel bottle)

Thanks,

Dave

Dave et al,

My setup is SnowPeak 700ml TI pot, TI wing stove, Esbit or Firelite tabs, windscreen.

I carry the stove, windscreen, and tabs outside of the pack in an exterior pocket. The pot does go in a stuff sack.

For me the residue is a serious inconvenience. I use sand, pine cones, grass, and whatever else to get the residure off the bottom of the pot before packing it. Crusty snow works best.

I've heard you should not handle the tabs do to toxicity and yet people don't seem to be bothered by the residue. It scares me and I do try to clean it off thoroughly.

At the altitudes and conditions at which I typically hike I do not get the boil times mentioned. In fact I rarely get a boil of 2 cups, I maybe get a few bubbles but that is good enough since I treat the water beforehand.

You can get the teeny esbit tabs from outfits that sell toy steam engines. Here is a sample URL: http://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/Wilesco_Kits.html

To the poster who asked where I buy Esbit from… I believe I ended up buying it from YesterYearToys.com. They sell the stuff for toy steam engines. They sell the 4gm and 14gm tablets.

Yesteryear Toys

The only other place I know of where you can buy it in Canada is directly from the distributor… but his price is a few dollars higher…

Greenland Sales

As for the Trail Designs stoves… I would consider a caldera if they made one out of Titanium that was sized to fit a beer can… but they don't. I looked at their 7 gram "stove" mentioned above (an esbit holder) and could not figure out how it offers temperature control… just looks like a basic stand? My "stand" is about 2 grams I think… and cost nothing… bottom of a drink can.

I'm sure most people here have seen my stove design (50 grams for the whole deal… pot, stand, handles, lid, etc.)… if not… here's the link again. I love it. Simple, insanely light, and it does the job.

http://davidlewis.ca/stove/

It looks like a lot of people are using the same setup I have.

– BPL TI wing stove
– MSR Titan (I wish BPL would get the FireLight 550 pots in stock!)
– Aluminum windscreen (from GossamerGear)
– ESBIT tabs.

I don't need the water boiling, just warmed up enough for my sack dinner. I can sometimes warm up another batch of water for someone else using the last bit of tablet.

David

The set up with Trail Designs new Titanium Esbit stand works by reducing airflow to the tabs by use of side 'wings'. This increases cooking time but also increases fuel economy. If you are in a hurry, you can just leave the wings off. Without the wings the stove weighs ~1.6g, with wings 3g.

Knowing the guys at Trail Designs, I wouldn't be surprised if they're working on a design for beer can enthusiasts. Titanium cone seems like a nice idea, but then your beer can would be your weakest link.

I always carry a small pot scrubber to get the worst of the fuel residue off my pot. And the pot goes in it's cozy inside my pack. The inside of the cozy gets to looking a little scungy after a while, but otherwise works just fine to keep everything clean.

EDIT:

I just realized you guys may be seeing the 'old' Trail Designs Esbit stand, which does look like a piece of bent chicken wire. The new Titanium stove is still under design refinement, is radically different to their old stand, and is lighter and more fuel efficint than an open chicken wire design. Will just have to wait for the new release…

here is my esbit stove/stand. It is as simple and cheap as can be. You need chiken wire, wire cutters, and pliers.

Thanks for the info Allison re: the Trail Designs esbit holder. That's cool. I'm not sure what you mean about my beer can being a "weak link" however? In what way? Would it not still heat better and faster with a cone than with my traditional hardware cloth stand and Ti foil windscreen?

p.s. the 48 gram weight spec'd on my stove page is not 100% accurate anymore since that was based on a galvanized hardware cloth stand. I have since upgraded to a stainless steel stand (same design… just different material) and altho' much nicer and more durable… it weighs twice as much as the cheapo (and toxic) galvanized stand.

Hey Brian… I really like the idea of integrating the stand with the holder. I use a 1.5" high stand (3 rows) with the bottom of an energy drink can. Works well enough… but the integrated holder would mean slightly less puttering.

One question… do you find it more difficult to light the esbit when it's inside that cage?

"do you find it more difficult to light the esbit when it's inside that cage?"

– not really. You can hold it in your hand and light it from the bottom before you set it down. Or just let the flame go through the mesh to the tab if the flame is long enough or your using a match.

Intersting comment about the galvaized fumes. It would have never occurred to me.

All I meant about the beer can being the 'weak link' is that there isn't much weight savings going with a titanium windscreen compared to the aluminum ones Trail Designs currently make. So why pay more to have a more robust windscreen/caldera cone out of titanium when your can/pot is still made from more fragile thin aluminum? I guess there would be an advantage if wood-burning was important.

Now if they made a 'beer can' out of titanium to go with a titanium cone, THAT would be pretty cool, but probably not a big weight saving over the titanium system they currently offer in the 900ml size.

The GramCracker is already available. Check it out here (scroll down a bit).

I just received my cone and cracker. I'll let you know how it works.

I have a question. What are the advantages/ disadvantages to alcohol vs esbit stoves?

I am new to both concepts, but esbit seems more versatile. Alcohol is cleaner? (less smell) Weight savings seem to go to the esbit side.

My hiking style is several 3-4 day trips a year, with one or two 7 day trips. I do not re-supply, and my cooking style is mainly in freezer bags with dehydrated meals. (heating water for a meal and a hot drink)

Thanks,

Dave

still waiting on mine… hopefully it'll show up in a few days…

I'm sure there are lots of threads about this, but in a nutshell:

Solid fuel is more expensive, often not as easily available, smells bad, leaves a black sticky residue, and is hard to light.

On the plus side is weight savings and no need to carry a fuel bottle or worry about spills and leaks. You only use exactly what you need and blow out the flame to use the remaining fuel later.

Did I miss anything?

One thing you missed is that solid fuel burns much hotter than alcohol. I've never gotten a hard rolling boil will alcohol. Also… a list of pros and cons doesn't really capture the user experience. Personally… I find solid fuel is a much better user experience. No fussing around with fuel bottles and spills and priming and accidental "poofs" burning your eyebrows off… LOL.

I've tried and like both

But I find that solid wins when it comes to which one is 'simplier to use'.

For me though, the BushBuddy beats both when it comes to 'fun to use'.

I have been using Trioxane fuel bars, military surplus. I got a whole case of 48 boxes of 6 bars each for about $12 last year from the Sportsmand Guide. I have not seen them in the catalog for a while though. I usually use 1 to 1 1/3 per day. Each bar weighs about 1 1/2 ounces and burns for about 9 minutes. They light easy. They stink while they are burning. They have to be stored in the original olive drab foil wrapper (with no pin holes in the wrapper) or they disintegrate in a few weeks. For the price, they have been a great deal. I also have used the Coleman Fuel tabs which I bought at the Coleman outlet store near Silverthorn, Colorado. I gave .50 each for 10 packs of 24 tabs. These can be difficult to light and stink like old fish, but they burn hot and are light weight (3 tabs are less than 1 ounce and I usually only use 2 or 3 per day).

Got my Gram Cracker with a CC. I've used it twice now, expecting to get the same mess as before (old system was a fruit cup can cut up, and a drain strainer to elevate the tablet).

I'm still getting residue on the bottom of the pot, but very very little on the Gram Cracker. And none on the foil I put underneith the stove. No evidence of the esbit liquifing enough to drip down (but I'm sure the solid turns to a liquid before it is burned away)

Anyone else notice this? I'm only boiling about 1 cup of water, so maybe it hasn't been "on" for long enough. I tend to think that the reduced air flow to the tablet really helps. I would have never thought of that. Knowledge can be well worth $12 for a small bent piece of metal.

As it is right now, there is less mess than before. And very little fuel consuption (I'll report on that latter, need to do some tests).

Steve

I noticed a new solid fuel tab for sale on this site Rationz. It claims to be oderless and have less depoits on cookware. Has anyone had any experience with this product??

Thanks,

Dave

It's still hexamine with a different name. It's not on the mpioutdoors site, but that premium member price is right. The shipping from bpl may make it less attractive than getting it elsewhere for free shipping.

I have used Rationz a couple of times, and then main thing I noticed (that I didn't like)was that it was more prone to "dripping" than Esbit or Coghlans tabs. In other owrds, it seems to melt a bit like wax. I didn't notice any decrease in fuel efficiency however….

How much do the Coghlans "Esbit" (hexamine) tabs weigh?

HJ

You may find that the various brands of Esbit fuel vary in weight, but they vary even more in energy capacity. Brand name Esbit seems to work most efficiently for me.

Trioxane is packaged in foil along with military rations. It works good also, but it is a much larger bar, probably intended for a larger cook pot.

–B.G.–