Waterproof bibs for packrafting?

If they have integrated socks or snug ankles, think carefully about bibs full of water during a capsize or swim.

Something like a wetsuit would be better. +1 on being able to swim in what you are wearing. A cold dunking in moving water is really a rude surprise and you need to be able to react immediately.

I would get a cheap farmer john wetsuit for starters. I think mine was $100 or less. Layer rain gear on top for splashing. Then save for a drysuit (if you want to do cold water). Mythic Gear has them as low as $250. Mine was a bit more (bare bones Kokatat with coupon) but one of the best gear purchases ever. I don't think some of the paddling we did would hav been safe without it.

A wetsuit would be super heavy. Good point about being able to swim. Would bibs that are loose around the ankles inhibit my swimming ability any more than rain pants?

To be clear, I'm not looking to do cold weather rafting with a significant risk of flipping the boat. I just figure that a rain jacket + bibs would keep my butt/back dry. Rivers where I would consider backpacking a dry/wet suit are off the table until I get more experience. But I will pick up a cheaper wetsuit and dry suit for non-packing packrafting as this is the only boat I will own. Thanks for the tip on that.

Jump in some shallow water with some bibs on. You wont like it. Cold fast water is very unforgiving. Darwin is listening to this :)

Do you mean because of the cold or because the bibs make it hard to swim? I realize that bibs won't protect me at all in the water. I suppose a trench coat style rain jacket could perform a similar function of having overlapping rain gear to keep my back dry from pooling water but the bibs seem like they would be more comfortable and less fuss.

Kokatat makes dry pants (and bibs) with integral booties. No one has drowned in them. A neo waistband on high waisted rainpants is the best compromise between added warm in the boat and something you can backpack in without shredding the booties or generally overheating. The Alpacka ww deck is also a vast improvement in this regard.

Some dry pants sound like a good idea, if they sealed around the ankles I could land my boat and not get my legs wet. What would adding a neo waistband on rain pants do? Prevent water from getting over the top? The goretex bib thing was actually Morgan's idea.

"No one has drowned in them." There's at least one documented case of a river drowning when water entered the suit legs of a swimming whitewater kayaker on my home river. And there are many documented cases of fisherman who have drowned wearing waders…which are not that much different than bibs. A close friend nearly bought the farm 3 weeks ago when he chose to wade across the river with bibs to save himself a 45 min walk around. I've had personal experience with the legs of my drysuit filling with water too due to forgetting to close my "relief" zipper. My point: Attempting to swim with legs full of water is serious business. Given the OP doesn't intend to do anything where there's a significant risk of a flip, he may be fine with dry pants or bibs. However, the unknowing should be aware that there can in fact be consequences with a configuration like that.

drysuit

If every discussion has to be prefaced with "you might get hurt if you use it improperly" not much of use will get done. I've spent plenty of time thinking about how to make a semi-dry two piece rainsuit which would be a substantive improvement for boating and still work well for hiking. Thus far nothing seems worthwhile. Two piece splash gear combos might be cheaper than a drysuit, but that's the only real advantage I can see.

Don't be offended that I corrected you, David. Few need to be told they could get hurt if they get off the computer. However, there are certain facts that can easily go unnoticed by many…facts that are worthwhile to know.

No offense taken geezer, but save for the two matching legs and fact that you might get in the water pants/bibs with booties and a 3.5" neoprene waist cuff done up are not comparable to waders or a drysuit with a hole (of whatever origin) below the waist. Ages ago I went through Neon Canyon in December with a 3" hole in my left leg due to careless knife work cutting webbing. Swimming corridors with a 20 pound numb leg was certainly concerning, and while that misadventure certainly illustrates a significant potential limitation of drysuits writ large, the primary lesson has for me always been don't be a dumbass. In any case, eboating does no one any good.

I'm definitely not looking for something that is sealed around the ankle and open at the top. I've heard plenty of stories about people being dragged under in their waders. I was talking about some waterproof bibs, the kind that people use for snow sports. Basically high waisted rain/hard shell pants with suspenders. High waisted pants that sealed at the top and the ankles, nothing gets in, would be great I think. I'm not a great swimmer, just ok, and my body doesn't react well to cold water so I don't want to screw around with something that will drag me. Would it be harder to swim in bibs than regular rain pants? Are regular rain pants going to slow me down significantly more than non waterproof pants or shorts? I have a hard time justifying the cost of a full on dry suit when I plan on avoiding white water and if I flip, I can always get out and change into dry clothes and get into my sleeping bag. Is there any flaw in that logic? Basically my original post was asking about high waisted rain pants for packrafting to keep my waist and back dry. I realize my original post could have been misunderstood for waders that are sealed around the ankles. When I say cold water, I'm talking local winter conditions around here which are 60 degree days in watersheds that rarely see a lick of snowmelt.

I have swam in rain pants, they seem fine. Short of a drysuit you'll eventually get wet no matter what IMHO. I would just use whatever rainsuit you like and call it good. Your plan to carry extra layers is a solid one. Just think about a backup if you lose your raft in cold weather (it's happened to better men then me).

"Just think about a backup if you lose your raft in cold weather" Ten esbits and a road flare tucked into my jacket?

Actually, David….the fatality I mentioned happened to a expert paddler whose drysuit neck gasket was torn. Not only did his suit have a tight neoprene waistband, he had his snug spray skirt tunnel under that (if you don't know, think 10-12" tall tight neoprene waist under the 3.5" neoprene waist cuff as you call it). All that water came in via the neck and bypassed all that snug fitting neoprene. The fact that his drysuit legs filled with water would surprise even some experienced whitewater paddlers…so I could see where a pedestrian packrafter/backpacker could think a pair of drypants or bibs would be no problem.

Ouch, Rusty how did it tear? My drysuit has no neoprene over the neck gasket so that might be a thing to watch.

Luke, It has been a long time, but, it seems I remember the neck gasket was repaired with duct tape prior to putting on…and that the repair failed on the river. I don't think it's something to be paranoid about…but like you said, stuff like that is something to be aware of.

"…if I flip, I can always get out and change into dry clothes and get into my sleeping bag. Is there any flaw in that logic?" Just that you might flip in water which is cold and fast enough that you get so cold so fast you can't get to shore, and drown. ;) If you packraft long enough you'll get into a situation where due to context swimming is just not an option, and that's when you exercise good judgment and are more willing to portage. Listening to Luke tell his Canada epic certainly got me thinking that I should be more rigorous about something I've done in Alaska but rarely do closer to home: always boat with a little waist pack of emergency gear.

To expound a bit more….I think the case I'm referring to was a very rare event. The story could have even gotten skewed….there could have been other factors that wasn't seen/told. I do remember that the river is considered "high" at 2k cfs and that it was running 6k+. So there was that… Also, since David brought it up, I will say too that when I paddle on multi-day trips, I always carry an emergency kit in case of a lost boat…but I wear a PFD with large yet unobtrusive pockets rather than a waist pack. Most smart backcountry paddlers do this to some degree. I also carry rescue kit in the same pockets. When solo, I take more than I do with a group.

don't you guys wear life jackets? if you wear a dry suit, don't you practice swimming with it flooded for the experience and to confirm your life jacket has sufficient buoyancy? having found myself in the ocean wearing a full set of foulies (the equivalent of a waterproof hard shell jacket and bib pants) and a life jacket, while swimming was awkward at best, i didn’t have any fear of drowning. what am i missing?

Are you asking me, Richard? If so, yes…I wear a life jacket. Always. It's standard/mandatory equip. PFD = life jacket. But I'm a whitewater kayaker, not a packrafter. You've discovered that swimming with your suit legs full of water is awkward…in the ocean. Swimming through rapids is a totally different environment though. Water filled legs inhibit your ability to self-rescue.