PCT Ultralight Pack Options MLD vs Zpacks Help!

I'll suggest looking at Richard Banks' posts for insight on how he managed carrying an empty bear canister strapped on top of his MLD Burn and putting his food in it each night. Seems fairly "extreme" but it shows how far you can take things. Most of the relevant posts are in the Gear List forum, IIRC. Profile here: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/profile.html?u=EDDAKA

I think the Zpacks suspension is unbeatable in the 15-27lb range, which is where you'll be most of the time with water & food. Highly effective at transferring weight to the hips. Given how little the Zpacks suspension weighs, I really think it's worthwhile if you're carrying >15lb total weight. If you want, I'm pretty sure that Zpacks will now make the regular Arc Blast in Dyneema (they use it for the Arc Haul). If you go with the regular Cuben hybrid, I'd recommend asking for an extra "Large Repair Patch" on the interior base of the back, which is the area most susceptible to abrasion. The only difference in Arc Blast sizing is horizontal, front-to-back. In any size, the side straps will cinch the load to put the center of gravity close to your back, so if you have concerns about capacity, for the minimal weight penalty I'd choose the 60L. But any bear canister will fit in any size, carried vertically. With a fully-laden bear canister, you can't put maximum tension & curve on the "Arc" struts, so there isn't so much of an air gap between the pack and your back, but this doesn't affect load carrying efficiency. Depending what else is in my pack, which determines exactly where the bearcan rides, I sometimes put a cut-down Gossamer Gear SitLight pad (about 1oz) inside the pack low down in front of the bearcan for comfort. And it's not a wasted ounce, since you have a nice sitting pad, of course… The Arc Blast comes with a big mesh pocket. But I wouldn't put water bottles there – you want heavy stuff close to your center of gravity. The Arc Blast side pockets are great for water bottles – in fact, I wish other pack manufacturers would copy zpacks side pocket design, which are the only ones that I've found that I can reach easily while wearing the pack. It's not rocket science – just a forward slope to the pocket, and a little rigidity but not tight elastication. But nobody else seems to be able to get those side pockets quite right.

With a few exceptions, you rarely have to carry more than 4-5 days of food. Water loads in socal can be significant if you err to the side of caution with water sources. For those reasons, I took a three pound pack with a frame. Spending a few more ounces on a pack can go a long way for all day hiking comfort.

I carried a Burn on the PCT in 2011 and I'm still using that pack thousands of miles later. That would not be the case with a Cuben pack. I hiked with a guy at the end of the PCT that had a Zpacks Cuben pack. based on the looks of the pack, they are accurate when they say it will last a thru hike and pretty much be done. I carried an 8 lb base in the Burn and had up to maybe 30 pounds going out of KM to VVR. I did not have a canister in that section, it is required but it was only uncomfortable for the first day or so. The trade off was little water carry in the section so it evened out. the packs that you are looking at are larger than the Burn which will make loading easier. But the advantage of the small volume is that it packs like a unibody car, it doesn't need a frame. I also use the hip belt so the weight alone wasn't a big deal. make sure you pack out your Sierra load with canister. those things require a lot more fiddling to get comfort. thankfully and unexpectedly I never had to find out about carrying my little bear boxer in the Burn. it fits but isn't pretty. but that's another story.

Hey there, Here are my thoughts and gear list for my thru http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=98485&skip_to_post=854701#854701 I really enjoyed my burn. I love zpacks as a company and used his quilt the my whole hike, but I think the backpacks are for only good for one thru hike. (Or many years of casual hiking) My buddy's arc blast starting falling apart by the end. With a sewing machine it's ready to hike again but it looks rough. Carrying a cannister on top wasn't too bad, I carried an ursack all the way to Yosemite and carried a bv450 from Tuluomne meadows to Bridgeport and sent it home. For that short section it wasn't bad. i carried a burn without a hip belt and the shoulder straps are some of the best I've ever felt. I carried a little over 30lbs out of Mojave/tehachapi and it really wasn't that bad. I love my pack and it still looks great.

I am almost certain I can get away with a Burn for my normal backpacking. Heck, for normal weekend trips I might even go with something like their CORE model. But for a thruhike: I do however prefer a padded hipbelt(I am pretty bony) which is why I am leaning more towards the Prophet or Exodus. Looking at the Zpacks website the Arc Haul is the exact same pack as the Arc Blast, only difference is the material of Dyneema vs Hybrid Cuben, 3 ounces more for the Arc Haul, its $20 cheaper than the Arc Blast, and only comes in the 60L size. At 24oz the Arc Haul weighs the same as my Stoke 29. I gotta say I am leaning towards the Arc Haul. That suspension looks pretty dreamy in comparison to what I have been using. Though I don't really have any complaints about my current setup aside from durability and capacity. I also like the side pouches on the Arc Haul better than that on the MLDs. I am just not a huge fan of mesh side pockets. While possibly lighter, it seems unnecessary and fragile. IMO the only place you really need mesh is the back pocket to help dry things out. Also, the option of those TOP side pouches is very attractive to me as I would like the ability to stow my cook kit and TiTri out of the way of the main pack and side bottle pouches where the TiTri could get crushed as I do not carry it in a caddy. Also, it appears since I last researched the Zpacks website, features such as the hydration port, load lifters, and adjustable torso have become standard features. That said the MLDs have the benefit of being almost a half pound lighter and $100 cheaper. I guess my final decision comes down to weight(17oz vs 24oz), cost($195 vs $295), and how much do I value a pack with a frame. UGH, I really want to be all hardcore and go with the MLD, but my gut is reminding me of the lesson I learned with my zlite vs xlite… side sleeper+foam mat=dead arms.

I still need to upgrade my pack as well and understand your dilemma. A great fitting pack makes the entire load feel light on your back. My current pack is 3 pounds (gregory r35) and I am wanting to save atleast a pound with a new, bigger, more convenient pack for my style but…..Its so hard to give it up as it feels so good to carry. What good is a pack that saves a pound on paper but makes the load feel 5 times heavier on your body by how it carries? Packs are personal and you wont know till you pack it full and carry it. You have 2 options as I see it. Buy the cheaper pack, use it and see if it works. If not, take a small lose and sell it and buy the more expensive pack with a better "frame". Or just start with the better pack.

"UGH, I really want to be all hardcore and go with the MLD, but my gut is reminding me of the lesson I learned with my zlite vs xlite… side sleeper+foam mat=dead arms." Apples and oranges. I went from a z-lite to an xlite and would ever consider going back. The key is learning how to effectively pack a Burn, it's a whole different critter than larger packs. Fir example, I made custom cuben food bags that fit perfectly in the burn. one in the top, one in the bottom. no more cramming stuff into the little opening. Also, when your carry gets smaller, keep your xlite blown up slightly, it's a cushy ride. finally, I have the old style plain hip belt and I added a total of six pockets to get much of the water weight off the pack. normally, there is zero weight on my shoulders, it's completely on my hips. I have also used this same setup on both the R2R2R GC run and the trans Zion run as well with a smaller load.Your problem isn't the frame with the Burn, it is a question of whether you can fit all your gear in the pack. Hint, my food volume was much greater then gear volume on the PCT.

Having used both these particular packs on thru-hikes here are my thoughts for however they may or may not apply to your hike: Note: Most of this review info and more can be seen on my website: http://www.peaksandvalleys.weebly.com 1. 2011 AT Thru-hike = MLD Burn. I great pack for short resupply sections and low water carrying. Hard on the shoulders above 20 lbs. I like it for a fast and light overnight or two on the AT. 2. 2013 PCT Thru-hike = Original Zpacks Arc Blast (52L) with a Bearikade Weekender and about 10 lbs of gear (maxed at 37 lbs in the Sierra's). What pack would I take if I could do it again? Easy choice – take an Arc Haul if you want it to still look good after the hike, and take an Arc Blast 60L if you just want it to be a little lighter and be a bit more careful. My Arc Blast has over 2,800 miles on it and is still very much usable (though it looks a bit worn out) with some repairs done by Zpacks for free. I'd take a 60 L over a 52L NOT because you should be using that space all the time — BUT because it will help in the Sierra's with the bear can, and sometimes its just nice to be able to haul a little bit more food out of town for the first day. To each their own – but a few ounces to allow you to haul a pizza and 2L bottle of soda out of the grocery store is well worth going to the Arc series — the added benefit of some AIRFLOW ON YOUR BACK should not be under stated. It's hot out there. Very freakin hot. Cheers and good luck with the walk !

I want something to really last. A frame for heavy water sections and room for a bear canister. better airflow. Top Side pockets for cook kit. Dyneema Material for durability. The Arc Haul hits all the marks. Now, do I purchase it now and put miles on it almost every weekend before the PCT next year? Or hold out and buy it a few months before to start the PCT with a fresher pack?

I would want to dial it in. What if it just doesnt fit right? Maybe you will find a mod would make it perfect. Better to work out the kinks before you hit the long trail.

Just some info based on the first post, the BV500 will fit upright in the Flash 45 with some room left over, it just depends how much more you think you need. It will even fit in the Flash 30, but there it is tight with room left only for.a few smaller items.