Arizona/Utah end of October suggestions

Anywhere below 6,000 feet. The AZT terminus/start on the Mexico border west to Patagonia would do. In Utah you'd take your chances as it's got a lot of high elevation and latitude. It can freeze by the first week of September in the 7-8 thousand feet levels on the Mogollon Rim in Arizona also… It doesn't freeze here (the Huachucas and Santa Rita mountains) until November and December.

I should be a little more specific. Cold at night is ok, even freezing. I'd prefer things don't dip into the teens, so the Rockies are out (my usual go-to, but not for this late in the year with a hiking partner who is not super-experienced), but a nice high desert route would be perfect. I live in northern New Mexico and know how cold high desert gets. I was initially batting around the idea of the trans-Zion trek which seemed like it would offer warm days and cold nights and great scenery. But I wanted to see if there were any great hikes that shouldn't be missed.

Is anyone familiar with the dark canyon wilderness loop? It looks like it would be perfect, and would avoid the crowds at the national parks. 40 miles long, one good scramble in the canyon at the beginning and out at the end, otherwise pretty easy for someone who has been at sea level for the past few months. It has a couple good water supplies, which was the part that was looking not so good elsewhere. Has anyone done this trail?

Paria or grand gulch might be decent. I've spent time in both (separate trips) in March about 10 years back

http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsmain/paria.html

http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/monticello/recreation/places/grand_gulch.html

I did a loop in Dark Canyon this spring:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=103604&skip_to_post=875868#875868

What we did was a bit more on the adventurous side. The Sundance Trail thing is what most folks do. If you want to be off the beaten path don't do it. The other major option of course is the upper canyon, but I understand that it's more of a desert hike than a canyon hike, if you get my meaning. I cannot recommend our route enough, though. It was awesome.

So, what do you want to know?

Offhand, here's one bit of advice: If you want to access from the north, don't drive in on the long dirt road from Blanding. Instead, loop southwest to the access road near Natural Bridges NM. Much better.

I am definitely interested in adventurous, with the caveat that I have never done any technical canyoneering. I am an experienced backpacker, hiker and rock scrambler, but especially since I am the "leader" on this trek, I definitely don't wanf to do anything too technical. I would say as long as it can be done without a rope, it's fair game. It seemed to me like sundance was a good hopping off point, and that you could do some pretty good canyon exploration from there. If there's something else you would recommend, I'm all ears!

And I was initially looking at an upper canyon loop, but thought it might be nice to have more flowing water, and do a bit more exploration up side canyons as opposed to one long loop. And in terms of access, we will most likely be limited to a standard passenger car, though my boyfriend could perhaps be talked into lending me his Tacoma for the trip. So access roads in decent condition are preferred.

Okay!

The route in my link is at worst scrambling in a few spots- absolutely not technical canyoneering. It sounds like what you may be looking for. But you would DEFINITELY need the Tacoma to access it the way that we did via Sweet Alice Road. (Coincidentally, that's what we used- my Tacoma.) Driving through the Notch is… notably sphincter-tightening. And though nontechnical the hike is not for the faint of heart- you're high up on the canyon walls in Lean-To at one point. Nothing terribly exposed, just high.

I just added a rough sketch map to my trip report showing the only remotely strenuous part/tricky bit of routefinding, i.e. the bit where you have to bypass to the rim in Youngs Canyon. I'll email Sam and see if he has his GPS tracks and if so I'll post that instead.

Our route definitely took us through parts of Youngs and even more so in Lean-To that had no trails- you just have to find your way. But… it's a canyon. So it's hard to get very lost. There's always a pretty obvious trail and cairns at choke points, though, such as when you have to bypass pour-offs. In Dark Canyon itself proper routefinding is trivial.

I don't want to shill my own hike report, but go ahead and read the link I posted- I tend to go into lots of detail in my reports so that others can reproduce the trip if they want to. You will not find much info about ascending Lean-To elsewhere. I know that I didn't- just a couple of reports about descending it. We were kind of flying blind on that bit.

From my research I can tell you that, yes, water is much more predictable in the lower canyon. In October, though, the upper canyon might have gotten rain or something, too. Your call. Upper canyon seems pleasant, but you miss the lower Dark Canyon slot-canyon with a creek vibe. I recall a trip report with decent photos on Blonde Coyote's blog, but if you google "Peavine-Woodenshoe Loop" there should be quite a few others.

Heed my warnings about water abundance if you do our route- we had a rather unusual experience.

Lots of people hike down Sundance and find a place to basecamp, and hike side-canyons from there, and I understand that the access road is much less demanding. So yes, that's absolutely an option. But I haven't done it. Sundance Trail itself is supposed to be VERY steep, and on a scree slope. People seem to complain about it a lot. But it would be easy to hit both Youngs and Lean-To from there, so you could see all the same stuff. We elected not to hike down Dark Canyon to the Colorado, but you could do that, too. (My research indicates that it's just a big mudflat since the reservoir is so low, though. That's why we skipped it.)

Heather, it'd be helpful if you presented a sense of how much physical and navigational challenge you and your partner are looking for. Most of the good hikes are either not on trails at all, or on trails which are quite a bit rougher than usual, such that miles per day isn't a very accurate guide.

The Zion Traverse is a good example of a fully trailed, beginner trip. The various upper Dark Canyon loops are a few steps up. One thing to be aware of, with Dark Canyon and other places, is the altitude and the possibility for snow. Not likely in late October, but possible, and if that road gets wet you may not be getting back out until it dries.

For all the info! I'Il check out the report as well. I'm supposed to have a phone planning conversation with my hiking partner, and gauge what she is wanting out of the trip. I love the idea of a slot canyon scramble, but I'm not sure what her comfort level will be. She is a bit of an adventure addict, so I suspect I won't have to do too much convincing!

I have a decent amount of route-funding exoerience. I am pretty good with a topo map and compass. Established trails are definitely not a requirement. Most of my backpacking and navigating has been done in mountain settings, not canyons, but I feel comfortable with navigation challenges generally.

Obviously, in terms of physical challenge, a more vigorous route would translate to fewer miles. I am not sure how much light-weight gear my hiking partner has. I could probably carry a tarp large enough for both of us and a light cook system, so she would only have to carry food, clothes, and a sleeping bag/pad, but if she is carrying a heavy load we would probably be best to base camp and only hike with a day's worth of food and water.

You don't really need epic miles for what we did. Honest, we started late the first day and except for that first day hiked only until 15:00 or so to stretch it out to 4 days. We also took siestas, stopped to swim, etc. (See the report.) If you do the Woodenshoe-Peavine loop it is rather longer, mileagewise, but easier terrain. I can't speak intelligently beyond that, since I haven't done it.

If you're going to do one thing in Utah it should absolutely be a slot canyon. In your shoes, to get some solid adventure and remote country without too much tech or mandatory 4×4 access I'd do a loop through Little Death Hollow and Wolverine Canyon in the Upper Escalante.

Also, Kelsey's book is awesome: http://www.amazon.com/Non-Technical-Canyon-Hiking-Colorado-Plateau/dp/0944510272/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1440514571&sr=8-2-fkmr2&keywords=non+technical+canyoneering It's awesome in that it lists many neat uncrowded hole-in-the-wall hikes. The actual route descriptions (and especially water source info) tends to be thin, but I use this book to get ideas, and then do further research. I really cannot recommend it enough. Just so you know- the Dark Canyon complex is so extensive that his book only gives a sort of an overview of it. Oh, and my hiking partners were from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and had no altitude issues. PS– Also, Dave is one of the great authorities on the Colorado Plateau, here on BPL forums. He is a man worth listening to. The Escalante region is on my list for the future.

I liked up pictures of that slow canyon and WOW! The loop you describe could easily be 2 days, leaving me with 2-3 more days I have allotted for this trip. Any other recommendations for other great hikes/backpack routes relatively nearby?

2 days is doable, but the hike will take longer than you think. A side trip over to the lower reaches of the Gulch is worthwhile. Another shortish loop in the area would be down the Main Fork of Choprock and up Silver Falls Creek, with a trip down to Neon Canyon and the Golden Cathedral. Peakaboo, Spooky, and lower Brimstone Gulche makes for a great dayhike if you have the time.

Thanks for pointing out some additional options. I'm supposed to have a planning conversation with my hiking partner in the next couple days. I am torn as to what I want to do, but may come to a decision after talking with her.