Pyramid Selection Help! Lunar 4

I would NEVER carry a four person shelter 2660 miles just because. On my PCT hike I set up my shelter a grand total of 3 times (YMMV). I would get a used lightweight two person tarp of whatever style fits your needs then sell it for what you paid or close to it after the trip. You can get very good gear on this site that would fit the bill. A tarptent squall would be another option.

This would give you a much lighter and smaller option. Footprint for a shelter can be important if you are looking for a place to throw down for the night.

PS. I will be back up in your neck of the wood in early October hiking the trans-Adirondak Route. Was just up there a couple weeks back for the first time, incredible place.

MLD has been using cuben for many years and essentially have the construction process down pat.

The HMG Mid is a slightly different design with the door at the short end vs. the long end, which may be a consideration for you if you are going to use it with more than one to two persons.

You may find with Bearpaw that the quality of the product is simply not there. I have also never seen (or owned) a product from them that wasn't 10 to 20% overweight. YMMV.

I would also determine whether Bearpaw uses cuben bonding tape to seam seal. If not, run.

Edit: OP talking about the UM 4 not 2 so the door consideration isn't one.

What you're saying seems consistent with other folks' accounts of their PCT thru hikes — it seems hardly anybody pitches their shelters more than 5-15 times. If we're going to use our shelter that infrequently, definitely going to consider the lightest option possible that will be comfortable the few times we need it. Getting something specific for the thru-hike that we'll sell afterwards might be the way to go.

We still need a tent for our regular, non-thru hike, trips, though, and given that we have 3 dirty dogs, a Mid style tent just seems right. Sleeping in our bug protected bivvies and leaving our pups to contend with the excessive number of biting insects that infest New York's North Country just seems inhumane… Plus, I'd like to do a bit of winter camping (don't tell my girlfriend), and I've read that the pitch of the pyramid can't be beat for snow protection.

Which brings me back to my original post — why is the Bear Paw mid so much cheaper than the scarily similar UltraMid and SuperMid?

I've asked Jon Stultz about how they seal their seams, will report back when I hear.

I saw that the UltraMid 2 has its door on the short end, but the UltraMid 4, Luna 4, and SuperMid all have square footprints… : )

“The HMG Mid is a slightly different design with the door at the short end vs. the long end, which may be a consideration for you if you are going to use it with more than one to two persons.”

I think that’s true with the Ultamid 2, but the Ultamid 4 the OP is cross shopping is 111″ square, so there is no short/long side.

OP:

Have you looked at Locus Gear? They make a shelter called the Khafra in Sil and Cuben – although the cuben one is not advertisted, they do make it. Specs they gave me a few months back (I went with the two person Hapi):

Cuben:

105″x105″x67″
16.2oz
$500ish, depending on JPY to USD exchange rate.

The sil version is slightly bigger, around 27oz, and cheaper.

FYI, it’s ULTAmid, not ultRamid (I made the same mistake for a while)

Locus Gear Khafra

"Which brings me back to my original post — why is the Bear Paw mid so much cheaper than the scarily similar UltraMid and SuperMid? "

Lower fit and finish, may not be taped, possibly over spec on weight.

I think you may want to consider ordering all three with the expectation of returning two and eating the shipping costs.

BearPaw got back to me to say that they seal using a silicone/thinner mixture (I assume this is not tape). I've read about CF, but not much about how it's sealed (except to know that if it's not sealed, I'll get leakage at the seams), so maybe you can explain why/whether this is an inferior way of doing it?

I was also straightforward about comparing them to HMG and MLD, and they responded that the price difference is because they are smaller and have less overhead. Say they've been in the business for 7 years making custom tents. For what it's worth.

You're probably right that the best way to go about this is to order and return. I've just been doing that with so much stuff lately… On the plus side, I'm getting to know Ken at the UPS store pretty well…

Thanks for the tip on Locus Gear. Did anything particular make you go with them, rather than HMG or MLD?

Cheers!

Tape maximizes strength as sewing cuben can weaken it. It also maximizes waterproofness and UV resistance. Since there is a significant amount of labour associated with taping, this is at least where part of the additional cost is coming from.

Note: the tape is bonded OVER the sewed threads.

Make your own from .51 cuben. I believe cuben is easier to work with than other fabrics. little if any sewing and no stretch. Here's a mid I made, only 1 person but very scalable.

"Given the similarities of these tents, why the huge price discrepancy? All of these shelters use .74 CF. I'm worried I'm missing something big. Why would anybody buy a SuperMid instead of the Luna 4 when the SuperMid is so much more expensive?"

The answer is simple: HMG and MLD have much higher build qualities than Bear Paw.*

* I've not owned a Bear Paw shelter. When they started the detail shots on their website showed shoddy enough craftsmanship that I was put off. The one cuben Bear Paw shelter I've seen in person had a scary lack of reinforcing and ugly, ugly stitching and taping. It is possible they've cleaned up their act since. On the other hand I recently bought some silnylon from Bear Paw, and it was of obviously lower quality than that used by MLD and other top tier companies.

I have cuben shelters made by HMG and MLD and they are both top notch craftsmanship. I had Bearpaw make me a custom half inner for the HMG Ultamid 4 and it was pretty rough around the edges. It is functional and it was nice to get something made to my specs but the fit and finish is nowhere near the level of the other cottage shelter makers I have used.

I haven't seen a Locus Gear shelter in person but for the $$$ right now I think it would be my choice provided the size works for you. I chose the Ultamid over the Supermid because those extra few inches of space were important to me.

"Thanks for the tip on Locus Gear. Did anything particular make you go with them, rather than HMG or MLD?"

It was a variety of factors, one of the main ones being I wanted a very specific size for a 2 person shelter, and because of the strong dollar compared to Yen, it was the lowest cost option.

Having said that, Locus Gear has extremely detailed and high quality products. In fact, the HMG mids are VERY similar in design and looks to the Locus Gear 'mids… guess which ones came out years before the others? ;)

HMG mids are pricey, but they are pretty bombproof due to sewing + taping or bonding, I can't remember exactly. Locus Gear doesn't use taping/sealing/bonding, but they do use a very specific custom needle and thread so that very very few users have ever reported leaking seams or elongated needle holes to them (this is what they explained to me).

In your position, I would do: 1) Locus Gear Khafra 2) HMG Ultamid 4 3) MLD Supermid, but I am probably outside the normal BPL opinion, which would probably flip that order.

I will agree with the others about Bearpaw's stuff – rough around the edges, but functional and cheap. Is the price difference between them and MLD/HMG worth it? Probably only if you planned on experiencing truly nasty weather where the higher build quality might come into play.

Ryan

I'll preface my comments by making a few statements:
-I do not yet own any of the above mentioned mids.
-Your optimal choice of shelter for a PCT thru hike is different than what's comfortable for a short/medium hike on the Eastern seaboard (sounds like you realize this already). If you want a shelter that is more universally useful then it adds a dimension that complicates the decision making process. I don't envy that task.
-I plan on skewing the pole a bit off center so that I can enjoy more space for two on one side of it.

I've done extensive research on this subject. I've scoured this site and compared specs at the wee hours of the morning. The Bearpaw mid did not make the cut simply due to lack of forum support. Neither did the Oware mid. Bearpaw does seem to be the go to manufacturer for custom inners. People seem to be reasonably happy with them.

The Ultamid: it has a larger footprint and steep walls due to the peak height. It will have the highest amount of usable square feet of the three I've listed here. This makes it more of a true "4 person" shelter. The other shelters are marketed as such but in reality are fairly tight, especially considering gear space requirements. The workmanship is of great reputation, complete with seam taped reinforcements. The inner tent is made with a ~1.5oz cuben floor which is not lighter than silnylon, considerably expensive, but reasonably durable and will not absorb water. Available in green or white. If you go all in including the inners then you are looking at over $1200. Not saying it's not worth it, though.

The Supermid: footprint is slightly smaller than the Ultamid but the walls have the same angle as the Ultamid due to the smaller height. It has bonded seams which helps save weight and is reportedly stronger. Only one color choice: green. Stellar reputation in the workmanship department. Various MLD Innernet/floor sizes fit. It's worth noting that there are some credible people who believe that the .74oz cuben floor inner option is not adequately durable. There's an easy fix, however, as the silnylon floor is available as an option.

Khafra: lightest of the three at a quoted weight of ~16oz. Choice of colors including black, white, or green. Excellent reputation for making quality products. The walls are not as steep so it's really a stretch to call it a 4 person shelter. The height is lower than the other two and as I recall it's a slightly larger square than the Supermid. I plan on sleeping a maximum occupancy of 3. You have the option of getting various sizes of inners. I opted for the 4/5 since I will likely never use it for 4 people; it's exactly the size for 3. I have a third party half inner for when I want to save weight and only have 1-2 people to sleep. That would leave me a huge vestibule area.

I'd look the two things: the respective inners that you want to use and the overall weight. The footprint sizes and catenary cuts seem to be a lesser issue but they are worth noting. As Bradford Rogers, who happened to be extraordinarily generous during my own pre-purchase research, mentioned above the Locus Gear is a two or three hundred dollars cheaper than the others. This did not really influence my purchase as I'm a believer that I usually get what I pay for.

There is one other thing I'll add, forum member Dan Goggins has some very valuable experience that he's kindly shared. I suggest searching for those posts as I took them into careful consideration.