High End Fastpacking Jacket for Bad Weather

Note, there aren't any pit zips on the Patagonia M10. Their Super Cell jacket seems to qualify, however.

I've been trying to decide between a Westcomb Shift and a Berghaus jacket so this thread is timely.

IMHO, if you are "fastpacking" – speed, all day long – you need minimal rain protection. A 14 ounce jacket seems like overkill, and a sweat suit, regardless of the membrane. You'll be just a wet with zippers open as you would in a minimalist WP/B shell. Let body heat provide the "comfort" and evaporate the rain.

That said, remember that you can always add pit zips to the otherwise perfect jacket.

so you really seem to be asking about a Shell ?
in my mind jacket is something with an insulation layer, and that does not seem to be what you are asking about.

14 oz is pretty heavy for a "fastpacking" shell.
unless you are going off trail and need the extra durability, something in the 8 oz range might fit your need better.

To clarify, yes, I meant a shell, not an insulated jacket. I would be layering with an appropriate fleece and base layer as per the conditions.

I agree that 14 oz is heavy, but I did say up to 14 oz. Yes an 8 oz jacket would be preferable but not at the expense of performance in extreme conditions. I'd rather carry the extra 6 ounces than risk freezing to death.

I don't believe my OR Helium 2 (or any PU laminate shell) will stand up to the conditions I expect to encounter, which is why I'm looking into a 3 layer GoreTex or equivalent shell that breathes and protects better.

Also to clarify intended use, this shell will be used for multiday, high output, sometimes off trail travel in winter conditions in Wyoming. That means freezing wind and blowing snow. Most precip is "dry" snow.

If I could buy anything for Fastpacking, as far as clothing, it would be a Montbell UL Thermawrap Jacket and a Lukes ultralite pertex rain shell.
Add a 1 ounce .067 Argon pant that I already have and you're all set.

That would be a sweet 13 ounce trio.

Andrew

The Montbell Peak shell is pretty bomber and only weighs just over 9 oz and the pant is 4.6 oz. I have had the Peak for several years now and it has held up well. It does not breathe as well as Event, but really none of this stuff "breathes" and you still have to seriously ventilate when pushing hard.

I need to look deeper into unfamiliar brands it seems.

I completely forgot about Luke's ultra light. His 3 layer eVent jacket with pit zips at 8.5 oz is crazy. Very cool if I decide to go full on minimalist. But given that this isn't going to be my ultra distance summer shell, I might want to have at least one pocket.

Does anyone have experience with goretex active products as opposed to the heavier Pro? I've gotten conflicting reports on overall durability.

If price isn't an issue, why not go for two or more shells?

The activities are quite different in many respects. Fastpacking could involve a windshirt/poncho or cape combo. Or a Sierra Designs Cagoule could work well. Or a Salamon S-Lab windshirt/WPB combo if you move fast enough to keep warm.

Then snowshoeing, pick a sub 10oz event jacket. Something that seals up is useful for when you fall over in powder. Zpacks WPB Cuben jacket is an option, very light.

if good breathability in winter conditions is what you are looking for,
I'm pretty sure soft shells were designed exactly for this purpose.

This isn't hype: most all of their gtx pro shell are top of the line.

The Alpha FL is amazing, but if you need pockets, get the Beta LT.

Or if you want pit zips, get the Alpha LT

The Alpha LT doesn't exist anymore and is now named Alpha AR. :-)

@Trill — No doubt about Arcteryx' cut and fit and workmanship. But is breathability important to you? Curious, have you worn eVENT jackets on your hikes?

And Ben,
have you used the air-permeable Pro (forget the word 'Shell'). CFM is 0,15 to 0,3 and that of eVent varries between 0,5 and 0,1.

The Arc'teryx Beta LT uses 40D Gore-Tex Pro, has 2 hand pockets and 1 internal pocket, one of the best reviewed hoods in the industry, and the tech specs list it at 10.1 ounces.

So my new question is, again ignoring price and based solely on product performance, can anyone name a comparable or better hard shell that roughly matches those tech specs?

Or, in memory of Alexandra, I will ask: What is the best ultralight bombproof hard shell?

"And Ben, have you used the air-permeable Pro (forget the word 'Shell'). CFM is 0,15 to 0,3 and that of eVent varries between 0,5 and 0,1."

No, and that's really why I ask the question. eVent is direct venting — whereas Goretex adds barrier layer(s). Having said that, I actually care less about "marketing speak" than actual user experience. It would be really nice for someone with experience in both the best of Goretex and eVent — to make a subjective comparison. Which one feels drier for longer? Which one keeps you drier at higher temps / at faster pace??

@Ben
for what I know from their technologies, they should act similar, but the advantage of Pro might be continued levels of breathability without the need of cleaning.

And oh, the new Pro is also direct venting and I knnow the secret sauce from both eVent and this 'Pro' after a lot of research and of course not from all that marketing talk.

Thanks, Woubeir. But surely, there are gear freaks here who have their hands on both — and a whole lot more besides???

You know what I would do ? Wait and see till Gore or someone else comes up with an improved alternative to this Columbia Outdry Extreme where something like a DWR is not needed anymore.

> this shell will be used for multiday, high output, sometimes off trail travel in
> winter conditions in Wyoming. That means freezing wind and blowing snow. Most
> precip is "dry" snow.

In that case, I don't see why you need a waterproof fabric – if most precip is 'dry'. You may be making too much of a sweat problem for yourself. I use an EPIC jacket in the snow. It is not 'waterproof', but it does shed the snow while breathing very well.

Actually, a 'softshell' is probably a good idea under those conditions.

Cheers

I use Westcomb Shift LT. I can't tell about the CFM rates, but it is very breathable. it weight just over 11 oz on my cheapo scale. I never missed the pit zips with this jacket, even when climbing. Westcomb did some awesome job on the details and specifically on the hood. I never checked, but I'm sure you'll find some good reviews on this piece online. Layered correctly, it could be exactly what you are looking for.

They still make it but it's only for LEAF – civilians can buy at authorized retailers.

My size large weights just under 15oz. It's a Beta LT with pit zips, extra hood toggle, and includes hemlock inserts.

It's also made in Canada :)

Breath ability is paramount. I have a Theta SV (150 denier) I was using for 4 season but is too warm in the summer.

The Alpha LT Gen 2 is the perfect balance.

I've owned an M10 and Event garments, but the only one that really shines is Neoshell.

IMO the Shift is one of th only true 4 season shells under 12oz.

I have REI's Kimtah eVent parka and have used it all 4 seasons, especially alpine and backcountry skiing. I like it a lot and over 5 years it still looks and works like new.

I also have the Kimtah rain pants but I think they are no longer available.

BTW, I re-up the parka's DWR with NikWax wash and after drying I spray on Revivex let dry and spray again.

Thanks so far for the suggestions everyone.

The Shift LT is a great looking shell, but I'm concerned about the NeoShell material. I've heard it isn't that warm and not as windproof as Gore-Tex. Or is that just reviewers nitpicking an otherwise great piece of gear?

I'd prefer to stay away from softshells. In my experience they aren't as effective for my intended uses, too heavy, and don't serve much purpose for many activities other than downhill skiing and looking sharp at Starbucks. I prefer modular systems.

Arc'teryx has too many shells that are ridiculously similar to each other. Almost as bad as trying to differentiate between Mercedes models. I suppose they are kind of the same? High quality, flashy and overpriced? Haha.

The REI Kimtah looks like a great value buy; if I were on a restricted budget it'd probably shoot up near the top of the list. An eVent shell currently on sale for $150!? Holy potatoes! Tad heavy though.

Has anyone used the Beta LT Hybrid? Looks like it uses PacLite instead of Pro and has pit zips, but adds 3 ounces.