Please give suggestions to help solve waking up from cold

Going to have to go for a bag with a lower temp rating. It's not unusual for some people to need a seriously warm bag for even modest conditions.

The other thing would be a warmer pad combo – but if you already have foam underneath.

What are you eating before bed – maybe load up with some healthy fats to stoke the internal furnace a bit.

"What are you eating before bed – maybe load up with some healthy fats to stoke the internal furnace a bit."

I eat the freeze dried (just add boiling water) meals. I could add nuts in there also but when sleep is 8hrs or so I doubt that even at a reduced metabolism during sleep my dinner would keep me warm in the A.M.

I too sleep cold, feeling it more in my thighs than my upper body. I sleep much better in the cold after going to an xtherm or similar pad with a higher r rating and a 10° quilt. I found fleece socks to not be as warm for me as wool socks. No hair, so also a windproof beanie! Good luck!

Mik,
with the insulation you describe using I would be warm to around 14f.
(comfort not survival)
I have the Ultralite but have slept at around 20f several times in the Summerlite having similar layers to yours (the Ultralite is about 12f warmer than the Summerlite)

Some possible reasons.
Your underlayers are not dry (and clean), a dump layer will rob you of heat not add to it.
(tight socks in particular can also make you feel cold. If you see the sock imprint on your foot , they are too tight)
Another is that you may be used to much higher temps at home.
One, that is usually not discussed , is that it may have to do with the weight on top of you.
If you sleep under blankets at home you might just miss that top weight and feel colder than you really are.
It can also be a medical condition but that would be evident at home also unless you reside in tropical areas.

"I eat the freeze dried (just add boiling water) meals"
To produce heat you need a lot of calories to burn, just like a stove needs fuel.
(calories comes from the Latin word for heat…)
Try adding olive oil or have a very fat loaded hot chocolate before you go to sleep.
Just one dry freeze meal is not going to cut it at or below freezing.
BTW, alcohol (more than a nip or two, will also rob you of heat)

I have a TT Rainbow, Neoair Xlite full length (has reflective material to help with keeping body heat), WM Ultralite with all down shaken from the bottom to top around torso area for max warmth, I sleep in synthetic (anti stink) long sleeve top and long johns, wear a microfleece 100 long sleeve jumper, wear a Stoic Anorac Down Jacket. I tried wearing a microfleece beanie to keep heat in, put the hood of my down jacket over my beanie as well, wore gloves too, wore microfleece warming socks then a hiking socks over that to help keep heat in. I also have a closed foam cell pad under my torso for extra insulation. I also tried more insulation on the ground in the form of dead vegetation of the area. AND I have tried ALL OF THE ABOVE ALL AT ONCE!!! The coldest I slept in was just 0deg celcius (32F).

Wow, I’d be roasting in all that.

Is your TT Rainbow drafty at all? I suspect not, but wind has robbed me of heat before (that’s usually cowboy camping though). I added a lightweight bivy and slept great. Just one thought.

The number one thing that wakes me up is cold air on my face. I have a buff knock off that I can pull up over my face if my face gets cold. Sounds like your coldness is a whole body thing though.

Have you tried sleeping with a hot water bottle (i.e. a Nalgene filled with boiling water stuffed into a thick sock and thrown in the foot of your bag)?

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

When do you get cold? Immediately? After a couple hours? Just before dawn?

Have you tried eating a big Snickers right before bed? Giving your body something high calorie can generate a lot of heat. I've heard of others also eating a candy bar 4 hours after turning in to extend the effect.

Is your bag too tight I wonder? I ask as I has this issue with the Ultralite, moving to an Alpinelite made a massive differnce.

I'd start with the pad, simply because the XLite is what stands out to me as being disproportionately less warm than the rest of the system. The fact that you've tried it with a CCF pad and still been cold makes me wonder, though.
Something sure seems out of whack there, but as a very warm sleeper, I would not hesitate to use the rest of that sleep system at 0F or a little lower *with my r5.9 Downmat in place of that XLite*.

1) are you overheating when you go to bed, causing you to sweat and get cold later?
2) you may try VBL. That has done wonders for me allowing me to stretch 3 season gear down well below its typical design limit. Clamminess may be an issue but I have not found it to be all that bad.
3) possibly switch over to an xtherm if you are getting cold from the ground.

You have some good advice here, but I have one question that I didn't see an answer to:

How are you sleeping when you get cold? Are you on your back, stomach, side, etc? That might help pinpoint what is causing the issue.

Is it the area touching the pad?

My off the cuff answer would be your sleeping pad may not be warm enough. An X-Therm is much warmer, but a CC pad added to the X-Lite should have given you similar warmth.

It could be your bag is too tight as mentioned above. How broad are you? The Ultralite is a really narrow bag, but warm. I know I used my 2003 Ultralite into the teens before I sold it.

And lastly, it may be that unfortunately you run cold and just need a warmer bag/pad at those temps. My wife easily runs 25* colder than I do and I run about neutral.

I agree with Brad's notion that understanding your sleeping position will help.

Its possible that if you roll or turn a lot, you are regularly compressing all your down. When down is compressed it doesn't offer much insulation. A warmer bag with more down in it will help. I'm not too familiar with the WM Ultralite but shaking ALL the down to the top probably isn't a good idea especially if you move around. In any case there is only so much space in the top chambers of the bag for it to loft, no point in overstuffing it too much, its false economy. Then when you change position in the night there is nothing on the base to keep you warm.

Not sure of your build, but if you are fairly big there might not be much room in your sleeping bag for your down jacket to fully loft.

But I would be positively roasting wearing what you are wearing. Absolutely cooking. I'd be cooking way down past -10C for sure!

(Sorry I don't mean to cause offense, but I'm not familiar with your name…are you a guy or a girl? Women usually need more insulation than men which could partially explain this. Also, Age? Older people usually need more metabolism. Fitness level?)

You are from Brisvegas so probably not used to the cold at home too. Down in RAdelaide right now we are all acclimatised for polar exploration with this Antarctic Cold Front that we are stuck in.

Oops !!!
I just realised that I interpreted the Xlite mat to be the XTherm, big difference.
Yes your mat is a 3 season type about 15-20c colder than the rest of your gear.
By that I mean I would use your mat down to 5c or so but happy with your sleep system down to -10/15c.*

Adam , don't be a wimp.
If you think it is cold in Adelaide , keep in mind we have Polar Bears in Melbourne.

*As a made up statistic, when folk complain about sleeping cold, 8 out of 10 times the main culprit is the mat.

I had a similar (not as pronounced) issue with the same pad, Neo Xlite.
Ditched it, replaced by a Downmat UL 7.
Issue – gone.

Try a decent (proven) pad, the most likely culprit, and report back of the outcome.

One other thought, I have found myself colder than what I would normally have been if I neglect to change into dry underwear and instead wear the underwear that I hiked in, even though they didn't feel all that damp. Despite being a seemingly small thing, it made a big difference. Franco already mentioned it, but make sure you are wearing dry clothing to sleep in.

"Try a decent (proven) pad, the most likely culprit, and report back of the outcome."
There is nothing faulty or unproven with the Thermarest XLite,(360g) it's a 3.2 R mat designed for three season work.
Your DM7 UL (460g) is rated R5.9 so hardly comparable.

Like Malto, my first question would be if you are sweating which causes you to get cold later. An easy first test would be to wear "less" and see if that helps a little.

If that's not the case, I'm going to have concur with the Downmat UL7. Wow, they are warm.

Too much clothing?

I've done it and if I get the slightest bit overheated I sweat a tiny bit, and that makes for a COLD night.

Take off a layer before bed and have loose socks. See if it's warm enough.

1."Have you tried sleeping with a hot water bottle (i.e. a Nalgene filled with boiling water stuffed into a thick sock and thrown in the foot of your bag)?"

Haven't tried to do this but I can't see a hot water bottle being hot 4 5 or 6 hours into my sleep to help keep me warm.

2."Your underlayers are not dry (and clean)"

I 'clean up; as soon as I enter camp either lake swim or if no lake a washcloth wipedown. The underlays as all other sleeping gear I have is well looked after for dryness, always carried in a packliner not to let it get wet!

3."Try adding olive oil or have a very fat loaded hot chocolate before you go to sleep"`

Yep, will do! Generally speaking I am in bed about and hour or so after dinner.

4."Is your TT Rainbow drafty at all?"

Yes it is but I cannot feel the cold seeping into the sleepingbag, I have other clothing to cover face if that were to bother me.

5."When do you get cold? Immediately? After a couple hours? Just before dawn?"

I'd say I can easily fall asleep so that is no issue. After a few hours it starts and I am in and out of sleep till dawn.

6."Is your bag too tight I wonder?"

No not at all, I am loving the space in the Ultralite. I went from Megalite to the Ultra. I am a tall (6'3") athletic slim build but not broad shoulders.

7."I'd start with the pad"

I am starting to think along this line also

8."are you overheating when you go to bed, causing you to sweat and get cold later?"

Deffinitely not.

9."How are you sleeping when you get cold? Are you on your back, stomach, side, etc?"

Not a stomach sleeper at all. I seem to feel that on my side I can fall back to sleep as I feel a little warmer (but only marginally). I am definitely coldest on my back but I prefer not to sleep on my back because it makes me snore and it also causes a collapsed throat making me wake up gasping for air.

10."shaking ALL the down to the top probably isn't a good idea especially if you move around"

I move 'in the' bag not with it. So the down is always on top and around the sides. I have experienced rolling with the bag and felt the cold seep in straight away but that is not the case for when I get woken with cold.

11."are you a guy or a girl? ", "Age?", "Fitness level?"

I am 38yr old fit (I race bicycles) guy. 6'3" tall athletic but slim build.

Thank you all for your input!! It seems to be pointing to the mat.

If you are warmer on your side than your back that would indicate to me that it's your pad.

With the Downmat and a 20 degree quilt I am warmer on my stomach or back than my side.

Hi Mik

I agree with everyone else that you have quite enough clothing and down.

I suspect you have two problems:
* Not enough insulation under you: that mat is not enough. We have a good review of mat insulation at
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/airmat_sotmr_part1_2011
and
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/airmat_sotmr_part2_2011
and
* not enough dinner inside you. One freeze-dry meal is not enough for you! Add about 50 – 60 g of carbo, as rice or noodles or even mashed potato. Olive oil and nuts are fine, but plain bulk carbo is needed.

I bet you eat more at home, and have a warmer mattress at home too. Run the experiment.

Cheers

One thing I always bring is my 20 inch x 50 inch sheet of .51 white cuben. It only weighs .255 ounces!

As soon as I drape this over my cold feet and torso I instantly start heating up. It goes over my clothes and under my down quilt. Having a VBL that is loose works perfect because you will NOT ever sweat or have your skin turn into a raisin. Its incredible how much of a heat boost you get that can weigh .255 oz. I get cold feet and within seconds of curling my toes in the sheet of cuben literally my frozen toes are comfortable.

However a air tight seal like cuben bivy that has a drawcord around your neck? Something like this will be warmer because all your precious body heat is trapped, and it will get sweaty and wet which can get cold and cause blisters

The mistakes usually made are not hydrating enough and not enough slow burning calories, and restrictive or too much clothing that's damp.

I am consistently warm with meals I make (MH has fewer calories and are bulkier than they have to be -'try trailcooking.com) and with my habit of drinking water and hot beverages until bed time. Getting up to pee will NOT make you cold if you stoked the furnace well enough. Water bottle will warm up the down for you, so you use fewer calories to do that – it works.

I gave the advice to change out damp clothes down to the underwear to my backpacking class. Invariably the students are shocked to find that it makes a difference when they swap out the scanty panties for dry ones, after changing all other items out doesn't.

I sleep in a single mid weight base layer down to low 20f range with a 25f quilt on a single inflatable by doing these things – I am a cold sleeping side sleeper who must be comfortable to sleep well. Slept well 6+ years this way on an original NeoAir, which was prolly rated an R rating of 2.5 or so,…

A cheap test to determine if it is the pad is to add a CC foam pad to the TOP of the pad you are using. I found that made a huge difference. I just used one of the blue CC foam pads in a short torso length.

+1 to what Larry said, and all others that have inferred that your pad is probably the culprit.

While I love my NeoRest for three season use, I tend to leave it home for winter excursions, except where I really need to travel as light as possible. Regardless, I ALWAYS put my CCF pad over top of the NeoRest, not only to improve the firmness, but because I am convinced it is a warmer system than the reverse.

I believe this due to when a person actually lies down on the NeoRest, the compression of the pad reduces it's total thickness – ESPECIALLY IN THE TORSO REGION. Also, as the air inside the pad balances out with the cold ground, it will thin out even more.

The only way any "Air Mattress" can actually achieve their ideal R value, is by them retaining their design thickness.

While the T-rest NeoRest may "appear" to have a reasonable R value on paper, I honestly have no idea how Cascade Designs actually comes up with their R-values, but I don't think they take this simple real-world fact into consideration. Mainly because all of us would "squish" the pad differently, and affect the overall thickness differently.

This also points to why CCF pads feel "warmer" in real-world use – because they compress much less during use, and retain their thickness.

If you truly like what you have, perhaps add a 2nd 1/8" CCF to your kit, and sandwich the NeoRest. I bet that might help a bunch.

And enjoy that Snicker bar!

:)