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WP/B trousers with pockets

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Oliver Budack BPL Member
PostedNov 19, 2007 at 10:26 am

In future i just want to use a single trouser when the sun is shining an when it is rainy. In combination with merino long-johns depending on temperatures.
I want to use them in Scandinavia in autumn at temps around freezing.

Therefor the fabric must be pretty breathable. I thought of event oder Dermizax. The problem is, most trousers are made to wear them as rainprotection only, so they dont have pockets.

The only pants i know that would fit my criteria is the "Breheimen Pants II" by Bergans. I guess u know some that would work also pretty good.
What about Paramo? Read about it often…

Greetings
Snuffy

PostedNov 19, 2007 at 10:59 am

For cold temperatures and especially for wet/cold, Paramo is very hard to beat.

It is far from lightweight and also warm (the jackets are a similar warmth to a lightweight fleece and a windproof), but is extremely comfortable and superbly breathable. An added advanatge is that it is quiet in use, unlike most other waterproofs.

I don't have trousers at the moment, but the Aspira salopette XL weighs 38oz/1080g.

Oliver Budack BPL Member
PostedNov 19, 2007 at 1:47 pm

The fact, that paramo is pretty warm is my concern about it. It also could be 10 to 15°C at a perfect day, at this temperatures with the sun burning & climbing up several hundred meters cotton pants would be fine, but fleece :X.

Therefore i will need to sew pants of Pertex Quantum, or Epic, but they will be in my backpack, what i wanted to avoid. But because of the warmer paramo i don't need the merino long-johns.
Uha, tough call.

What happens with paramo if you hold it under water? Will the water soak through? With "real" waterproof pants i would bind some string around my boots and seal it that way to prevent water from weting my boots while going through a river. For a minute or two it works with gore or comparables.

Are there different types of waterproof-paramo? Here in Germany it is pretty unknown. Only one webshop with one model.

Snuffy

PostedNov 19, 2007 at 3:16 pm

I know the US Army newish Gore-Tex pants have pockets. The ones we were issued have cargo pockets and reach thru pockets on the front. Reinforced on the seat are and have almost calf high zips on the legs. They are pretty serious pants though, not lightweight by any means, though they are pretty durable. If you want them you might be able to get them thru an army surplus online dealer like Ranger Joes. Not very fashionable.

Funny though my new ACU wet weather jacket is made out of Event instead of Gore-Tex. Nothing like the Integral Designs jacket it weighs in the neighborhood of 3 pounds.

PostedNov 19, 2007 at 6:13 pm

You have to think of Paramo "waterproofs" in a different way. They aren't waterproof in the traditional "keep out the water by blocking it with a membrane" way. Paramo is waterproof in that it actively pushes water to the outside of the fabric. You can put a Paramo hat on your wet head and within a short while your hair is dry. So yes, the fabric will wet out when immersed in water, but pull it out and very quickly the inside (the part against your skin or base layer) is dry again. It is the best wet weather system I have ever used, and far more breathable than any other waterproof system on the market. I never get the sauna effect in them unless it is very warm, and then I find I don't need rainwear (and it is not like the Pertex/Pile systems like Buffalo or Marmot DriClime. Those systems are passive, using your body's heat to move the water. That is why it is not recommended to use the Nikwax Wash-in Direct on PP systems).

Other people keep saying that Paramo is warm, but I have always found it be somewhat cold, not doing very well with thermal retention when the wind is cold. I have to wear an insulating layer underneath my jacket to stay warm at the same temperatures that my old Goretex jacket used to keep me warmer at (I think it has something to do with the thermal retention R-value of the face fabric. If you touch the fabric in cold weather it feels colder than nylon, for instance. It's the same way that, in the same temperature, a stone wall will feel colder than a wooden wall). For that reason I find the Cascada trousers to be just right for colder, Autumn weather, but not warm enough for winter temperatures without a thin base layer underneath. The great thing about the Paramo waterproofs is that you can use them without base layers at all, against the skin, so the jackets become like waterproof shirts, but at the same time can be used as an outer layer over an insulated jacket, or even as a mid layer, with the insulated jacket on the outside. The fabric is soft and pliable enough, without the stiffness of Goretex or eVent fabrics, that the sleeves (or pant legs) can be easily rolled up, so therefore it works well as an all around garment. I find that even during summer rains this is just right to keep me from chilling in the rain. If it gets any warmer than that (as it often does here in Japan) I don't wear any rainwear at all, just allow myself to get soaked and later at a rest stop, don my Paramo and dry myself off that way. It's a great system that most people who haven't used it don't quite get the logic of, I think.

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