10 years on the run from the FBI on the AT – Bismarck

Was posted in the ON THE WEB section in May

Fair enough.
This is a different article though ( (longer, better if you ask me).
Could have put it in the On the Web section though.

Interesting article. Sounds like Hammes might be a psychopath. The research i've read indicates that many of the "higher functioning", lower level types can be quite charming and surface likable when they want to be–these types have a strong innate sense of how to manipulate people really well. If he was involved with killing his wife, then the probability sounds pretty high.

like Ted Bundy?

No, probably more like a Scott Peterson…or Drew Peterson.

I guess, was he considered pretty charming and likable? I don't know much about him.

Psychopathy is a spectrum, and sadly it's a perpetuated media and hollywood myth that psychopathic types are always serial killers and the like.

Lower and mid level types aren't necessarily strongly sadistic or violent, they just don't care about others–severe lack of empathy and conscience. It's like people are more like objects than important, feeling beings to them. They probably value nice objects (expensive car, house, etc) more than those in their life and definitely people in general.

So, they don't hesitate to screw over others if it benefits them. They don't necessarily get a rush from hurting others though. But that seems common in the more extreme end of the spectrum (Ted Bundy, etc).

There must have been a Ted Bundy anniversary recently because there were a couple documentaries. He was very personable. He worked for the governor of Washington and was thought of for a future in politics. Police first discounted him as a potential suspect because he was the governor's assistant.

Hmmm… what does that say about politicians?…

"There must have been a Ted Bundy anniversary recently because there were a couple documentaries. He was very personable. He worked for the governor of Washington and was thought of for a future in politics. Police first discounted him as a potential suspect because he was the governor's assistant.

Hmmm… what does that say about politicians?…"

Politicians and mass murder is news? NOT!

Btw Jerry and others, i wouldn't listen to anything i say. Both the character from Good Will Hunting and myself are totally deluded to think that one can learn anything valid from independent study and contemplation and the school of life.

I mean, unless one has a Masters, PHD, or the like, from a reputable University, one is an ignorant idiot who can't think for themselves, at least not in any meaningful way. ;)

Perhaps the contempt and utter disdain upper classes often felt for lower classes, including serfs and slaves, in many societies, points to some socially inculcated psychopathy. "Classes without conscience", so to speak.

The Indian caste system, Roman Patrician attitudes and practices, British and other European nobility's "use" of the lower classes, etc., etc. is illustrative of this. Jim Crow laws in the not-so-long-ago-south would be another example.

Speaking as a former psych teacher I can say that yes, there are true psychopaths out there on a fairly wide spectrum of behavior. They are all "takers" and all have a bottom line of "me first", regardless of how charming they may be on the surface.

The solution to our problems is for all the high functioning rich people to "go on strike" and move to an island. The rest of us, left to ourselves, will degenerate into chaos.

Eric, you hit the nail on the head. I'm currently reading, "The Sociopath Next Door", and the author (Martha Stout PHD) talks about how in east Asia there is much less percentage of these types, whereas in America is there not only a much higher percentage, but it seems to be on the rise. She thinks it may have to do with cultural differences and what society expects from individuals in relation to the collective.

Those prior societies are much more collective oriented. So even if you're born a psychopath in that society, you have to tow the line more behavior wise. It isn't known if there are actually less percentage of psychopaths per given number of population, or if they just behave a lot better and don't cause as much damage to others making it appear there is less. Could be one or the other, or could even be both.

I think the GOP is increasingly more psychopathic in nature and tendency. Entering chaff territory here.

So cultural inoculation could very much be a factor. She also talks a bit about the psychology of war and killing, and how it was realized early on by the U.S. military that most people really need to be pushed by authority to kill. She mentions how in cases where generals etc were not directly giving orders, the majority of soldiers would tend to mis aim or even not shoot at all. But if there was an authority figure there giving direct orders to kill, the percentage of accurate shots and deaths went way up. Then she talks about the concept of turning people, the "enemy", into "its" rather than people. Its or objects are much easier to kill than fellow humans with similar feelings, needs, wants, etc.

The U.S. military and political system has this inoculation down to a science now. Basically, they are good at programming selective or compartmentalized psychopathy (which at it's essence is defined by a severe lack of empathy and conscience for others). Which is probably why most soldiers that do become involved in killing others, often come back broken to some extent because they are not true or fully psychopathic. Only a true psychopathic type can kill (even in self defense) and not be negatively affected by it whatsoever.

Anyways, last post of mine of this nature on this thread.

I really need to be assigned and fully funded to go deep undercover on the PCT for a year to hunt down a criminal. Nothing scary like murderers but something along the lines of surface $#!++ers who don't bury their poop and TP.

>> Speaking as a former psych teacher I can say that yes

Anyone who has taught "psych" – the ultimate pseudo discipline – has committed serious damage
to those students!

You're better off speaking as just another human…..

"Anyone who has taught "psych" – the ultimate pseudo discipline – has committed serious damage
to those students!

You're better off speaking as just another human…"

Loves me some snark but Eric said absolutely nothing that deserved an insulting response like this. You may not agree but you don't need to make it personal here.

I once lived in NW Pennsylvania. There were two incidents of murders on the trail there within 10 years. Only one person was caught and sentenced for one murder. It made many of us carry firearms when backpacking and treat lone hikers with abundant caution for years after.

I'll say that even psychopaths need to "train up" to the act of killing another human. They do it with animal torture killings and brutalizing others until they finally can carry out a murder. After that they are on a deadly roll. Killing is much ease for themr after the first.

Regarding the military, soldiers, sailors & Marines now train on very life-like targets the suddenly and realistically pop up them back down if not shot. This makes shooting the enemy a "muscle memory" reflex, done without pausing to think. All modern armies train like this today. Kind of a sad commentary on human nature. We'e getting better at killing. But it is very often necessary in our violent world, filled with psychopaths and terrorists. Hopefully the Good Guys will win (and we'll know who they are – I hope).

As for Republicans creating social divisions that can creat psychopaths, that's a stretch.

I WILL say that the greatly widened income gap between the top 5% and the rest of us that began in Reagan's terms has exacerbated social ills and about that there is no true professional debate among sociologists and social psychologists. They can back up the assertion with ugly but accurate facts.

Hopefully we will see our middle and lower classes and many upper class citizens rise to protect our precious wildernesses, rivers, oceans and atmosphere.

When THE POPE weighs in on the subject of man's role in Nature's demise you know it's serious.

"Kind of a sad commentary on human nature. We'e getting better at killing."

"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living." — Gen. Omar Bradley

"Anyone who has taught "psych" – the ultimate pseudo discipline – has committed serious damage
to those students!

You're better off speaking as just another human….."

Any data to back up this statement?

Only tangentially related to this particular story, but reading this story reminded me of a couple of other tales of folks evading the law (for a while), hiding out in the “wilderness,” that I’ve read:

The Bandit of Ballarat about an “outlaw” that led authorities on a 1500-mile chase through the deserts of the American West, always managing to stay one step ahead.

And,Dead Run, a story about three survivalists on the run following their murder of a small town cop and their aborted attempt to blow up the Glen Canyon Dam.

Ped E.,

I second Andy. "Any data to back up this statement?"

If you understood MODERN psychology you would know it is derived from the scientific method being used to test and understand human behavior. To say that Psychology is not a "hard science" is to not understand it at all.

True, there are "Jungian" and 'Freudian" psychologists who practice their trade as counselors and they are to be avoided. Their brand of high priced snake oil practice is, to me, unethical. So we may agree on a little here.

Good psychological counselors, clinical psychologists and researchers work on sound, proven principles of human behavior and they get results.

The U.S. military uses psych all the time for recruiting, training, for psych warfare, etc.

Advertisers use psychology extensively and most of the time you are not even aware of it. (Yeah, you too Mr. Ped.)