sierra dry?

[Patrick O’Neil]

Im heading to kings county park in a month. How is the water situation right now? Ive never been to the sierra before and the drought has me worried.

[Adam White]

Sorry–the guy that should respond to this isn't around right now. I'll do my best:

Where exactly are you going Patrick? Because the place that you think is a place is not really a place. Or so I think.

Assuming you meant "Kings Canyon National Park", more details are still needed to provide any worthwhile information to you–it's a big park, and water availability will vary greatly depending on where in the 450,000 acres you're going.

#HomageToBobGross

[Patrick O’Neil]

Thanks, starting at roads end, plan is to do the big seki loop if im in decent enough shape. So just trying to get news in general, I'll be in sequoia national park as well of course

[Dave T]

"Im heading to kings county park in a month. How is the water situation right now? Ive never been to the sierra before and the drought has me worried."

What is Kings County Park? I've never heard of that. If you mean "Kings Canyon" it is a national park, when combined with the adjacent "Sequoia", of course.

Water situation? Where in the park? It's dry away from water, and wet when you are at water. You must be more specific.

The "sierra"? You have never been to any mountains? Which sierra? One assumes you mean the "Sierra Nevada" and definitely not the "Sierras". Ansel Adams and Francis Farquhar have written on this topic.

— D.T —

[Adam White]

> starting at roads end, plan is to do the big seki loop

Are you planning to go CW or CCW?

[Patrick O’Neil]

Guys not everyone is from california. Yes kings canyon national park specifically the big seki loop im aware that's a very large area. Yes Ive been to the mountains, yukon, alaska, chile blah blah.

Just looking for cpmments like: hiked to rae lakes no water at all or all creeks are high.

Did high sierra trail (im sure I have the name wrong) and no water the whole way or water is fine.

Or did bubs creek trail this week, all creeks dry.

Or I was around forrester pass last weekend and forest fires were raging to the east.

You know general comments like that and I can check my maps and make notations.

Its funny how these threads always get people up in arms. "Not the sierras it' the sierra nevada singular. Kings national not county . . .

[Patrick O’Neil]

Hi sorry typing on phone so pretty horrible typing experience. Doing the loop counterclockwise from roads end thanks.

[Paul Wagner]

They are deep, and won't dry up. The creeks between are another matter, so you'll want to check your route carefully and make sure that you water up where you need to traverse a long dry section. But it isn't really much of an issue.

[Patrick O’Neil]

Thanks Paul Ill look over my maps to see what kind distances there are between lakes.

[Dave T]

L'hommage à Bob Gross était trop petit pour voir .

p.s. You'll have a great time, and don't count on random snowmelt rivulets, but creeks, streams, and lakes will be plentiful most likely. Check the maps!

[Adam White]

Looking at the CCW loop:

Bubb's Creek will be flowing, Sphinx Creek will be flowing.
Moraine Creek could be dry (ask around–others will know better than I do), but it's only a few miles past that to Roaring River, which will be flowing.
Middle Fork Kaweah will be flowing.
As Paul pointed out, lakes will be wet, and that includes Hamilton and Precipice Lakes.
Big Arroyo will be flowing, but you might be dry for a few miles on your way to Moraine Lake.
Kern, Wright, Wallace and Tyndall all should be flowing.
Tarns/Lakes on both the N/S sides of Forrester will hold water.
Bubb's Creek, again, will be flowing; but you might be dry from Vidette Meadow up to the tarn below Glen Pass.
Rae Lakes, Dollar Lake, will be wet; and the South Fork Wood's Creek will be flowing.
Wood's Creek and its headwaters will keep you quenched until Pinchot; Marjorie will of course hold water on the N. side of Pinchot.
South Fork Kings will be flowing, and that will take you up to Mather Pass
Palisade Creek, Middle Fork Kings and Cartridge Creek will be flowing; that will take you to Simpson Meadow
From Simpson Meadow, you will be dry up to East Fork Dougherty. Hopefully that's flowing–it was last August when I was there.
Should be water in Granite Basin, but there may not be water in Upper or Lower Tent Meadow (again, there was last August when I was there). It's downhill in this direction, so not that big of a deal.

[Theo Diekmann]

Hi everyone,

Are there any updated on the water situation? I'll walk the Big SEKI Loop starting Aug, 3rd at Road's End. We're going clockwise (that is, via Copper Creek trailhead).

I'm particularly interested in water on the section from the Copper Creek trailhead to Granite Basin. We're planning on taking the first day really easy and we'll probably camp near the food-storage container located somewhere near Upper Tent Meadow or so (that's approximate and just estimated by comparing the maps). Of course, it would be nice if we don't have to haul our nighttime water up the hill. Does anyone have info on that?

Thank you so much,
Theo

[Adam White]

Theo,

I was just there last Thursday (7/23), and yes, there was water available at Tent Meadow, and at a few other creek crossings on the way up to Granite Basin.

Still, there's been a lot of precipitation recently, and that may dry up quickly, so I'd call the ranger station and ask if they know anything more about it the day before your trip (as well, of course, as when you pick up your permit).

I didn't stay at the campsite at Tent Meadow, but did take a photo of it for timestamp purposes, so that in the future, I'd know how long it takes to get to. That photo is below. FWIW, it took me 1h:26m to get from the trailhead to that campsite, but I hike faster than most. That was the only obvious camping I saw on the ascent.

[Theo Diekmann]

Thanks for the info, Adam!
We'll definitely check with the rangers and bring enough water in the car for the worst case scenario.
Sounds like you're hiking really fast, I think we'll need a lot longer with 11 days of food on our backs…

[Adam White]

Well, if you hike a little faster, you won't need 11 days of food! Kidding, of course.

I was only carrying around 14 lbs total, so I really was BPL. I was also trying to get to Palisade Creek before nightfall, so I didn't have to repeat the moonlit stumble up the Middle Fork Kings that I did last year when I did the same loop…

There's water at the permit issuing ranger station at Roads End, so you don't need to bring it all from home (although, it's not much harder to do that).

Have a great trip! It's spectacular out there.

[Theo Diekmann]

Hiking faster would be awesome, but given the fact that I'm not in my best shape, I feel that the current itinerary is as fast as I can go. Frankly, I'm even contemplating doing a smaller loop, just to avoid those unpleasant first days of heavy-hauling.

One follow-up question: Was there water even on the way to Tent Meadow? Looking at the last version of my gear list and the starting weight, it would be really awesome if I could get away with carrying only 1L of water (or even less)…

[Justin Baker]

I would definitely not limit yourself to a 1 liter capacity given the drought. 2 liters at least.

[Adam White]

> One follow-up question: Was there water even on the way to Tent Meadow?

Yes, there was. For whatever reason (lucky you!), I decided to drop a waypoint on my GPS at the first water I crossed. See the map below. I suspect that there was water at the tributary crossing just below Lower Tent Meadow as well, but I didn't take note of it.

Same caveats apply–that there was water flowing last Thursday doesn't mean there will be in another week–it could have been predominantly fed by the large amount of rain we recently received, and that can dry up quickly.

> it would be really awesome if I could get away with carrying only 1L of water (or even less)…

I only did the northern half of the loop, but I carried less than 1L the entire time. In fact, I realized in hindsight that I did a 14 mile stretch on less than 1L , between just below Granite Pass (on the north side) and the one place on the Middle Fork Kings trail where there is trailside water access to the Middle Fork. I passed water several times on that 14 mile stretch, but 1L was (apparently) sufficient.

I did have a 32 oz Gatorade and a 20 oz Gatorade bottle, so I could've carried a little more. And, again, I hike faster than most, so 1L probably gets me further than others. I second Justin's recommendation to have the ability to carry more than 1L, but the only place I think you'd need it is if you had to turn around and climb back up towards Granite Pass from Simpson Meadow. That's a 7 mile dry stretch with 4,000 feet of climbing.

That said, I think you were just saying you didn't want to carry more than 1L, not that you weren't planning on having that capacity.

[Justin Baker]

When I did that trail in August of 2013, there was no water at the tributary crossing just below lower tent meadow. That year was a drought year for California, not as bad as this year, but I don't think there was much summer precip in the Sierras.

[Theo Diekmann]

Thank you Adam for the detailed info! I'll re-check with the rangers and make a decision at the trailhead.
And yes, I am going to have at least 3L of capacity. Due to my too-heavy starting weight, I would just really like to carry as little water as possible (still enough for my needs though) during the first two days.

[Justin Baker]

You should post a gear list. You could get some feedback on if you are carrying to much or too little of something from some Sierra veterans. Do you know what your starting weight without water will be?

[Theo Diekmann]

Hi Justin,

I posted a gear list in the corresponding forum. Here's a link:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=105516

My starting weight currently is about 13.1 kg but some changes based on comments received in the above-mentioned thread pending.

I'd appreciate your opinion!

Thanks,
Theo

[Theo Diekmann]

Hi everyone,

I have one follow-up question. For logistical reasons, I will not be exiting the Big Seki Loop via Roads End. Instead, I will (after having completed most of the clockwise loop) follow the High Sierra Trail via Bearpaw Meadow exit at Crescent Meadow Trailhead. Can somebody comment on the water situation there on that route?

[Patrick O’Neil]

Hi Theo, can't help you on that specific question but just wanted to say I'm hoping to start August 12 going counterclockwise from Road's end. I'm feeling a little to out of shape for this as well. Who knows if you guys are a day early I may bump into you on the 13th. Have fun!

Edited to say thanks Adam for all the info.

[Mitchell Ebbott]

Not quite specific to that trail, but just north of it. I just was at the Alta trail from Wolverton Trailhead last week and all sources on the USGS map were flowing.

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