FF Hooded Helios vs Nunatak Skaha Plus: which is warmer?

I cannot comment on the FF, but I do have the Nunatak. The jacket is made with Pertex Quantum, has one oz of overfill, front pocket, and is as lofty as a MH winter coat that I have. All this at 13.7 oz on my scale. My thought after seeing it is, with the Skaha considered a jacket, how puffy are Nunatak's coats? With the hood pulled up the neck stays warm really conserving heat. The hood cut is back far enough as to not block your view. Only thing that bothers me sometimes is the noise a hood like this can make. It would be the same with either jacket. My use is at camp in the evenings. Packs very small and is very light. I have only had the opportunity to use it down to low 30's. At that temp it was more than adequate. I was wearing a long sleeve undershirt and a Montane windblock shirt under it. So what you need to decide is how warm of coat you are looking for, how much weight do you wish to carry, how small can it pack, and what is your intended use. It would seem to me that the more fill in a coat the warmer it would be. I also would question the differences in price. How is it that one manufacturer can be so much cheaper and have almost twice the down fill? My feeling is that you usually get what you pay for. It could be where it is made, US vs overseas. Don't really know for sure. Either way it is a quality product which once bought and paid for you will enjoy using it.

Hope this helps

Both were measured around 4.2 inches of double layer loft in BPL reviews. I wouldn't expect them to differ significantly in warmth if they provide similar coverage.

I would expect FF to be using 800+ fill as well. Where is the difference in weight?

I think much of the weight differential is in the shell materials and other features (zippers, etc).

In my experience, the Nunatak is lilely to offer better warmth due to its more consistent loft (becuase it is baffled). The Skaha is also a delicate garment. It should be treated with care and may not be a good choice if your plans include bushwacking, alpine climbing, etc.

Having owned many down jackets over the years, I have an appreciation for the value of fully-baffled designs. They appear to allow for more even down lofting which (along with the elimination of sewn-through seams) also appear to significantly reduce cold spots.

I use the word “appear” because I have no actual scientific evidence (just my own trail experience) that fully-baffled designs (fill types and weights being equal) are, in fact, actually warmer than sewn-through designs.

Accordingly, I’d like to suggest that BPL consider taking on this issue on as a project and do a comparison of the two construction techniques.

In the absence of such evidence, however, I believe that the Mont-Bell Alpine down jacket is probably one of the best deals currently available.

For 16 oz and $170 (now on sale for $144.50 at Prolite Gear), you get 6 oz of down fill, fully-baffled design, full front zip, zippered hand warmer pockets, and a micro-fleece lined collar. Also not mentioned in the web site specs is a down-filled draft tube behind the front zipper. I don’t currently own one, but expect to make a purchase soon.

By the way, I generally prefer a non-hooded down jacket, or at least one with a removable hood. This Mont-Bell jacket is not currently available with a hood, but it’s no big deal to me since when it’s really cold, I carry a separate Volant hood that I ordered a while back from Feathered Friends.

I would agree with the Montbell one also and you can try that one out and return it if you do not like it. If you have someone that can sew, try out the Whitney on the thru-hiker.com site. It just takes a little more to turn that into a baffled design that you can add more down to it. An extra few ounces would not really impact your overall weight but would help with the cold.

Good thoughts on the Skaha, George.

"It would seem to me that the more fill in a coat the warmer it would be."

This is the question I was trying to address. A baffled design is warmer than a sewn through design because there aren't places of zero loft. I'm wondering which factor, design or fill weight, contributes to the overall warmth more, and how much extra loft you can put in a sewn through design before you get to the point where a baffled design with a certain fraction of that loft is just as warm.

"I also would question the differences in price. How is it that one manufacturer can be so much cheaper and have almost twice the down fill? My feeling is that you usually get what you pay for. It could be where it is made, US vs overseas."

The difference in price is due to Nunatak items being astronomically expensive. Feathered Friends is as good or better of a manufacturer than Nunatak and their items are USA made. The main difference is that FF is a slightly larger operation and is able to manufacture their jackets and sleeping bags faster than Nunatak. They also have a retail store where they make money selling regular outdoor gear alongside their own stuff. This is how I suspect they are able to keep their prices relatively reasonable. Also, FF no longer uses Pertex Quantum so their garments and sleeping bags tend to be spec'd slightly heavier.

"Accordingly, I'd like to suggest that BPL consider taking on this issue on as a project and do a comparison of the two construction techniques."

That would be an interesting project!

"In the absence of such evidence, however, I believe that the Mont-Bell Alpine down jacket is probably one of the best deals currently available."

I saw that too. Looks super cool. Hopefully they'll come out with a hooded version soon, though.