Possible downsides to my way cheaper underquilt idea??

[Levi McAllister]

I recently got the HH expedition asym zip and am thinking of ideas to insulate the underside without buying an unreasonably expensive underquilt. After some research, I found that HH also sells a "supershelter" that includes a liner that hangs under the hammock to allow you to slip in pads and reflectix pads and other things. The price of that bottom side liner alone is $110. So I got to thinking, what if I just purchased something like the eno sub7 and found a way to snuggly hang it beneath my HH (not too tight) and then slip in my down sleeping bag and even a pad if I'm feeling crazy? If Im not missing something here, that would allow me to save hundreds, have a fully functional backup sub7 hammock for 70 bucks, probably save some weight as the HH liner is probably heavier, and allow me to invest in just a top quilt while using my existing down bag as an underquilt. To me, the only speed bump I might face is that the asym is… asymetrical and the eno is not. You guys have an input?

[Dale Wambaugh]

Yup. That's called an "undercover". I have a poncho with elastic cords in the hem that does that too. That is waterproof fabric and condensation hasn't been a problem. IMHO, it is the best, lightest bottom insulation for summer use.

A Grand Trunk Ultralight hammock body would work too (cheaper)

You could just gather the ends of any light fabric with shock cord. Mitten hooks and toggles are good improvising hardware. If you want better, just hem the ends.

Do use a space blanket under the foam pad as Hennessy recommends– it is warmer. For that matter, you could make an undercover from a space blanket too.

2QZQ makes and sells undercovers for $42-$45
http://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/hammockaccessories.html

Ted Garlington came up with the idea of using an undercover and filling light plastic bags with insulating material– like wadded newspaper or dry leaves. Google "garlington insulator". I made some using folded, crumpled and taped space blankets. It worked. For summer temps, most of the challenge is just keeping the moving air away from your backside.

[Katherine .]

buying a second hammock to put under your hammock? How much does the eno sub7 weigh? seems unlikely that it would be weight efficient.

I'd use the bag you have on top and get an underquilt instead of top quilt + enosub7 or supershelter.

also, there could be functionality issues, what would keep your bag from getting all bunchy in the eno?

[Levi McAllister]

Awesome! You were speaking of summer temps, you think this same idea would work well in winter temps too? My down bag is a 25 degree bag. Pair that with my inflatable pad, I feel like this will work well. I left out the fact that my bag isnt a mummy bag (I hate them). It's the nemo stratoloft so its big and rectangular and in my opinion, it's very much worth the extra weight.

[Levi McAllister]

The sub 7 is 7 ounces, so it's very light in my opinion. About the bag bunching up, I think that if I attach it snug enough the bag will stay where I put it.

[Levi McAllister]

I'm basically attempting to recreate HH's undercover system that holds pads accept ill be using the eno sub 7 because its way cheaper. In theory, if the eno is roughly the same length and width as the HH, it should work perfectly. And if its shorter, that shouldnt effect anything still.

[Dale Wambaugh]

"Awesome! You were speaking of summer temps, you think this same idea would work well in winter temps too?"

No. But an undercover coupled with an underquilt will add warmth. Think of the undercover as a wind shell for your hammock.

"My down bag is a 25 degree bag. Pair that with my inflatable pad, I feel like this will work well. I left out the fact that my bag isnt a mummy bag (I hate them). It's the nemo stratoloft so its big and rectangular and in my opinion, it's very much worth the extra weight."

A 20" wide pad will leave your shoulders, hips and elbows cold. You can get an ENO pad extender, but in general, pads in hammocks suck. Underquilts are warm but IMHO they are finicky, heavy, and expensive, but for winter temps, they really the best way to go for now.

Your down bag will compress under you, negating much of the insulating value on your bottom side. If you have a large enough rectangular bag with a 2-way zipper, you MIGHT be able to open the foot and slip it over the hammock, giving you top and bottom insulation– usually called a "nest."

Get on YouTube and search on "shug hammock." Shug is quite a character and has produced a very helpful set of videos on hammock camping. He lives in Minnesota and has hammock camped at -26F! Watch them all :)

[Levi McAllister]

If I slipped the pad and bag in the eno at a diagonal, wouldn't there be a way to hang the eno to where my body wouldnt compress anything but still allow everything to be snuggly fit?

Also, I love shug!!

[Dale Wambaugh]

"If I slipped the pad and bag in the eno at a diagonal, wouldn't there be a way to hang the eno to where my body wouldnt compress anything but still allow everything to be snuggly fit?"

I don't follow. ENO hammock or ENO pad extender? Your body will compress the sleeping bag if it is between you and the hammock and have little (like no) insulating value. It is warmer with w sleeping bag as it does seal the sides and insulated down to the point where it is compressed.

The problems with a CCF foam pad or self-inflating air pad is the width and trying to get in place under you and keep it there. Wide pads buckle and are even more of a wrestling match. Believe me, everyone has tried. You can do it. but it isn't the nice smooth surface of the hammock.

That's why I like the SuperShelter concept. You have a layer of foam, a space blanket and a wind shell (repels water too) that generally stays put. You can subtract layers in warmer temps and it works to near freezing temps. I normally use a 32F mummy bag on the top side, spread out like a quilt unless it is cold. A left hand zipper helps a lot in the Hennessy Zip models.

Having a "test bench" will let you learn at home. I sunk a couple 4×6 posts deep into the back yard about 16' feet apart and have spent many nights out there. Don't go any smaller than 4×6! Trees are even better :) Trying to learn on the fly up the side of a mountain after a long day of hiking is a tough way to go!

[Levi McAllister]

No no no, my body won't be in the eno. Like I said earlier, the eno will be hung under my hennessy hammock to create a little pocket that i can place my sleeping bag or any other type of insulation into. To illustrate this with words the layering will be: ground, eno sub7, nemo sleeping bag with or without pad inside of it, hennessy hammock, me, topquilt or something else on top of my body, bug net, rainfly. And when I hang the sub 7 under my hennessy, I won't be doing it too tight to the point where my body will compress the sleeping bag while laying in the hennessy, yet it still needs to be snug. Think of the hennessy hammock with the supershelter setup under the hammock accept ill be using the sub7 and my sleeping bag. Hopefully I didn't confuse anymore. haha

[Dale Wambaugh]

Got it. A sleeping bag would be way heavy as bottom insulation. The problem is to the insulation up on the sides and keep it there. It needs rigging and shaping to do that.

I saw some twin size synthetic comforters at Ikea. They are designed to go into a duvet cover, so the covering is light. Even with that the published weight is 23oz. But they are only $8.

Another classic cheap underquilt is the "woobie" — a military poncho liner folded in haft. Google "woobie underquilt" and you'll find it.

My thought was to do a woobie style underquilt with the Ikea comforter, or chop it down to make it lighter.

[Levi McAllister]

Awesome, thanks for the info Dale. I looked up some diy tutorials and just picked up a poncho liner, some paracord and some cord locks from the local surplus store. Ill be putting this together soon!

[Kevin Babione]

I think you're definitely going to want some way to anchor your sleeping bag in the Eno on both ends so that it doesn't slide to the middle (i.e. the lowest point) while you're sleeping. If if you get the "snugness" perfect up against your sleeping hammock both the top and bottom of the sleeping bag will creep down while you sleep.

[Anonymous]

"He lives in Minnesota and has hammock camped at -26F! Watch them all :) "

I believe his record is now -40 F or so.

[Dale Wambaugh]

" I looked up some diy tutorials and just picked up a poncho liner, some paracord and some cord locks from the local surplus store. Ill be putting this together soon!"

Experiment with adding a space blanket to the mix and see how that works. it does wonders for the SuperShelter. The AMK Heatsheets are more expensive, but a lot quieter.

Shock cord may work better than paracord, allowing the woobie to move as you move and still come back close to you. You don't want it super tight, just close. The seal on the ends and sides is important to keep cold air from leaking in.

You could add a SuperShelter foam insulator too, making it even warmer.

[Tommy M]

I bought extra Hennessy Hammock Scout Tents on sale last fall so I could try something similar to what you are talking about.  I figured if it didn’t work, then my sons friends will be very happy that we have a few extra Scout hammocks.  I am down in Mobile, AL, but planning to backpack in the Appalachians and Smokies, (with our without Boy Scouts) so figuring out how to manage potentially variable temperatures from 95 down to 20 or so is my primary concern.

I set up an Eno Doublenest with a HH Scout underneath.  Then I put an old heavy Coleman sleeping bag quilt with flannel on one side in the HH.  I put a 20* Mummy bag in the hammock to sleep in.

There was high wind blowing straight at my hammock and it got down into the 40’s, not counting wind chill.  So, I set up a ul tent floor that I bought on clearance as an additional wind break hoping it would help.

I quickly realized that my concerns about tearing up the HH, by dropping *too much of my weight through the Eno into the HH. were unfounded as long as I was reasonably careful.

Because of the narrowing of the hammock at the footbox, there was a lot of extra sleeping bag hanging out of the HH.  I was initially pleased to simply wrap the ends over the top of the eno and figured my feet would stay warmer.  It worked ok, but they had a tendency to slip and drop with one edge dragging the ground.  I have a couple of tarp clamps sitting beside my desk that are going in my kit (just in case) and until I find a more permanent solution to under-quilt management.

I had picked up an emergency blanket last minute at WalMart because it was premade with grommets, orange on one side, metallic on the other.  I intended to use it to supplement the under quilt, but like the sleeping bag, the ends are not gathered so they ended up wrapped around the footbox and I had to tie it on.  The footbox was not the cause of some late night tinkering, but the fact that it gets heavy and bulky compared to the open top end (and the fact that I had no particularly good way to keep the other end below my torso and head from sliding), results in gravity, unrolling and sliding issues.  This was particularly difficult to manage with the large coleman sleeping bag fighting gravity and trying to unfold inside the impromptu emergency blanket foot*cone.  I was definitely warm enough at that point in the night that I didn’t care that the emergency blanket was only half attached.

All in all, I went to bed happy and warm, woke up with the emergency blanket pulled down and half off, but still warm.  However, when I decided to leave the hammock for bladder relief, it was cold, late and a bit difficult to get in and out without dismantling the system and redoing at at 2:30 at night in 40* temps with high wind.  I ended up draping the emergency blanket over the hammocks instead of using it to supplement the under quilts.  Then, of course, I managed to get hot and start sweating, so I had to work on ventilation and fought with it a bit going from a bit to cold to a bit to hot in the middle of the night.

All in all, it was fun and just as fiddle some and enlightening as I hoped it would be.  The extra sleeping bag, emergency blanket, wind screen and hammock only added 8-10 pounds to the gear load.  /grin

So, like most sane folk who have tried to rig up systems like that with minimal experience…   I keep looking at commercial under quilts with the realization that although DIY is fun and rewarding that the cost of the supplies, equipment and time involved add up faster than the cost of a good under quilt.

I did find a serger at Goodwill for $10, but have had no luck finding a KamSnap press, so far.

Mainly, I just can’t figure out how to explain to my wife that for me and our 2 sons, I need to dedicate a walk in closet for at least 9 under quilts, (0,20,40) 9 top quilts and  9-12 camping dedicated jackets, vests and winter gear.  Unless, of course, she will become an adult leader in Scouts and join us…. then we need another closet for her gear.  she is still flabbergasted that we know have so many backpacks….  day hike, overnight, long term, waterproof for kayak/canoe/whitewater.. and then totes for Scout base camps and backpacks set up for troop gear, just in case, lol.

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