Running with UL Packs

I won't suggest a specific pack but I will observe that you will want a pack which has a waist strap and that has either a good compression system or your gear just fits into. For larger volume I really liked the GoLite Speed which seemed to do a better job as staying in place than any pack I have used while running.

–mark

William,
Why on earth do you need that big of a pack???
The 1st thing that popped in my mind when I read your post was the Nathan HPL 020.
You know the more you carry the slower you run?
It also puts much more stress on your body if you're going to go for a race this long.

Now for a reply.
I have tried the ULA Amp and can tell you that the ULA Conduit transfers the load and carries much better than the Amp.
For the size pack you want and how much you want to carry, it would make more since to have as stable a load as possible.
I would also agree with the Speed pack as well.
While still heavy, it’s all in the way the pack will hold the load.

nm

New Balance makes a MDS pack 22L with a 3L front waist pack:

http://www.darbaroud-boutik.com/boutique_us/fiche_produit.cfm?type=19&ref=NBMDS001&code_lg=lg_us&pag=1&num=0

The Nathan 759 is 19 L in main compartment, plus extras. You'd need some front pack too I guess.
http://www.nathansports.com/our_products/hydration_nutrition/hpl_759.html

24. Compulsory Equipment for Participants

The compulsory equipment and the personal belongings of each participant (food, survival kit etc) should weigh between 6.5 – 15 Kg. This minimum / maximum weight does not include your daily water supply. Each participant will have to fulfil the above obligations during the administrative and technical controls in Morocco (see 27 & 28).
Food

Each entrant must provide his/her own food throughout the race. He/she must select the type of food best suited to that individuals personal needs, health, weather conditions, weight and back-pack conditions. We remind you that airlines strictly forbid the carrying of butane cooking gas and other fuels, either as hand-luggage or in the hold.

Each competitor must have 14,000 k/calories, that is to say a minimum of 2000 k/calories per day, otherwise he/she will be penalised (see 27 and 28).

Gas stoves are strictly forbidden.
Survival gear

* Backpack or equivalent (best suited to each participant)
* Sleeping bag
* Torch with spare batteries
* 10 safety pins
* Compass with 1°ree; or 2°ree; precision
* Lighter
* Whistle
* Knife with metal blade
* Tropical Disinfectant
* Anti-Venom pump (insect poison remover)
* Signalling mirror
* One aluminium survival sheet

A survival kit will be supplied by AOI and will include the following:-

* A Distress flare
* Salt tablets
* luminous signal stick (non-stop stage)

..The use of any transportation, either 2 or 4 wheels will result in elimination from the race…
Unicycle?

Thanks Paul. I have stared ad nauseum at those rules as well!

THe NB pack, and it's Raidlight equivalent don't really work for me – too many belts, buckles and un-needed features. I have run a lot with Inov-8's 20L pack, but it'a a bit small, so I may just use the 22L version, which has expandable mesh pockets. I think I can strip it down to 400-450g.

Aaron, I recognize that the heavier the pack, the harder it is to run… Unfortunately, it's a self supported race, so there is a minimum weight that is feasible. The Nathan HPL 20 is, unfortunately way too small – I have looked a bit at the 063, but it is a bit heavy for my taste.

Mark, I'll take a look at the Speed – have you run very extensively with it?

How do you like the Inov-8 ordinarily? Good luck on the race! I had fun watching videos about it in French. Holy Cow!

How long is the torso? The one size fits all torsos are usually too short for me although the nathan 759 is long enough.

I'd be worried that while running all the bouncing wil destroy my Whisper. I wouldn't run with that one.

For running I love my Eider Adventure Race Pack. It's a vest-pack and for running I wouldn't want anything else. Vest-packs don't move at all while running and a bouncing pack is the last thing you want to be bothered with during Les Sables. Salomon also does a vest-pack. Also look out for the Golite Team pack, they don't carry it anymore, but maybe you can get a hold of one (and I would be jealous).

Anyway, concentrate on Adventure Racing, gear made specifically for AR'ing is much better for running than (S)UL hiking gear.

Eins

I like it a lot. However, I have never run with a load greater than about 6lbs. The shoulder straps are pretty comfy, but not very padded, so it's possible that they might bite with a heavier load…

I'm sure you're right about the Whisper. I also agree that I should probably stick with a true racing pack. The thing is (as everyone here knows) when you are endlessly staring at your gear list, looking for any way to cut weight, you start to dream up some crazy ideas…

Crazy ideas? Dunno what you mean…

Like sewing the shoulder straps of your Whisper onto your windshirt (or in the case of Les Sables onto a baselayer would be beter), adding a zipp from the neck all the way down and maybe adding some pockets and thus creating your very own SUL vestpack???

Nah, I never get strange ideas like that.

Still, for running Les Sables you need about a gallon and a half of water in your pack right? That's about as much as you can carry in a Whisper. A true AR pack will be more comfy.

Eins

Dont know anything about it but this Wild things Spectra Racer Pack looks pretty cool.

This isn't much of a list.

Each competitor must have 14,000 k/calories, that is to say a minimum of

***2000 k/calories per day, (This is only about 1 pound).

Survival gear

* Backpack or equivalent (best suited to each participant)
**** (In discussion)
* Sleeping bag
*****(Devotion 40* bag – 11 ounces)
* Torch with spare batteries
*****(Get a 1AA Fenix cree and rig a torch and you have under 2oz)
* 10 safety pins
*****(.1 ounce)
* Compass with 1°ree; or 2°ree; precision
*****(1 ounce)
* Lighter
*****(.8 ounce)
* Whistle
*****(.1 ounce)
* Knife with metal blade
*****(under 1 ounce)
* Tropical Disinfectant
*****(.5 ounce)
* Anti-Venom pump (insect poison remover)
*****(??? 1-2 ounces)
* Signaling mirror
****(.5 ounces)
* One aluminum survival sheet
*****(1.5 ounce)

A survival kit will be supplied by AOI and will include the following:-

* A Distress flare
* Salt tablets
* luminous signal stick (non-stop stage)
*****(Probably 12 ounces)

As long as you can re-supply your food every day, you’re only looking at 3 pounds.
With a max of 3 litters of water added, you are at 9 lbs.

Add the pack and you have a total of around 10 pounds.

Your average weight you can carry is about 6 pounds.
With this light of a system, I would go with the Nathan HPL 759. It is an amazing bag when carryng less than 10 pounds.

Unfortunately, you carry ALL of your food for the week (no resupply). Also, running 250km through sand in 40C heat is going to take more than 14000cal. Min food weight is going to be in excess of 4 kg for even the smallest, most stripped down racers.

additionally, the MINIMUM pack weight must be 6.5kg at the start of the race. There is no point in going lower than this, otherwise you will be penalised. If you come under add more food.

Normally you get 9-11L of water per day, at set times and checkpoints. It depends on the length of the section-on the ultra day (usually ~80km) I think they give you more like 11L.

The water is spread out throughout the day. They don't give it to you in one big hit. Usually you get it in 1-1.5L allocations, although I think sometimes this goes up to 3L, so if you don't have the storage capacity then you will have to drink any extra on the spot. I think it is worthwhile to carry enough capacity for about 4L just in case-lets be honest even for you SUL freaks a platypus weighs nothing.

Something I would check on, is the rules for the sleeping bag. The officials might not like a quilt (I think this has been mentioned somewhere before). Alot of competitors seem to get away with a Rab top bag though, and alot also seem to like using a PHD minimus, although one recent Australian competitor reported this not being quite adequate for him in terms of warmth (PHD will custom them with more down, and this is the way I would go myself).

I haven't competed yet in MDS, but having been following it for several years and met a former competitor in Aus. Inspiring. I want to have a crack in the 2009 race, if I can raise the funds and get time off fom work around then.

I would strongly reccomend finding a copy of, and reading thoroughly the book "Survival of the Fittest" by Dr Mike Stroud. It will give you an excellent insight into how your body works in such conditions. After reading it, my running attitude in heat totally changed, and I was way more confident and knew what was happening and when. It also changed the way I wanted to train for the MDS.

But best of luck William! I look forward to hearing how you go.

It's pretty easy to get around the minimum weight requirement, but you are right, you may as well take more food – I estimate my caloric needs will be > 30 000 cal. So I'll be pretty skinny by the end…

I'm taking the Rab elite Top bag (300g), and will likely freeze my azz off.

You are correct about the water, it's about 1.5L every 10-12 kms. Imagine if they gave you all your days water at the beginning! That would be Super Ultra Heavy packing (SUH).

Thanks for the good wishes – I'll certainly need them!

After some trimming the Lowe Alpine Mountain Marathon might work. At 32 liters it is larger than your target of 25 liters. I recommend keeping some of the compression system in place, so you can keep the load stable and close to your body.

Details here

The Lowe Alpine Contour Hike is another candidate, at 25 liters.

I think trying a few more Adventure racing/mountain running packs is definitely the go.

I will probably do the same, and find one with a harness that works for me. I will then probably cut the pack away leaving just the harness and the back panel, and make a spinnaker body for the pack with minimal features.

A compression lacing system will work well, however, I reckon I would also use the loft powers of my sleeping bag to fill out the pack as time goes by and food volume decreases. A cell foam pad would be lashed to the back.

Another good pack worth considering is the Macpac Amp 25 or 40. Nice looking harness (on the web).

>Another good pack worth considering is the Macpac Amp 25 or 40. Nice looking harness (on the web).<

I definately second that pack.

Right now I am seriously considering the 2010 Marathon des Sables myself.

Currently I'm thinking of making my own pack…getting ahold of a Gossamer Gear mariposa hipbelt (now sold seperately), and making an SUL pack of about 20L from 0.97oz spinnaker fabric from thru-hiker, with plenty of mesh pockets and a decent compression lacing system. I'm not sure yet about shoulder straps though. I might end up finding a nice daypack with straps I like and canniblising it. There are too many features on most adventure racing packs ive seen. If I was to use one I would cannibilise the harness off it and attach my own SUL pack.

I keep running on stupidly hot days (>40C) at the moment in South Australia again this summer and finding myself enjoying it too much…the MdS sounds like a good challenge.

Have you seen the Inov-8 packs? http://www.inov-8.com You might enjoy some of their ideas and they have cool hydration bladders.

"I am running in the Marathon des Sables this spring, and would be very interested in hearing about anyone's experiences running with any UL backpacks.

Specifically, I will be running 3-10 hours/day with a beginning load of 6 kg (including food and water). I anticipate that I will need about 25L of space. I have been loking at the GG Whisper as well as the ULA Amp, amongst others."

I agree that a cut-down AR pack is probably your best bet. If you want around 25 l then check out the OMM (nee KIMM) packs:

http://www.theomm.com/pages/OMM_ClassicMarathon25L.html

The Lowe Rush 25 seemed pretty stable whenever I tried it on:

http://www.lowealpine.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductTypeID=17&ProductGroupID=634&Position=3&SpecificActivityID=

There's also a Rush 35 available, or there used to be …

There's also these packs but maybe too big:

http://www.cilao.com/izi33.htm

Ice-axe optional.

I'd also check out the photo galleries on the LAMM and OMM race sites to see what people are carrying.

You've probably seen this:

http://www.runfurther.com/content/view/58/85/

Of course, if you're going to walk quickly rather than actually run (which seems to be what most of the competitors are doing) then an SUL pack may fit the bill … but my Miniposa is very sweaty when it has a Z-Rest in the back of it, and SilNylon is sweaty on its own, which is another consideration.

Arapiles

I know it is not the most popular option for advanture racing, but I have found running with the Ion to be super comfortable. I recently purchased one of Ron Bells new pack pockets and added it to the sternum strap to carry food and it works nicely.

William,

I'd take a look at the Macpac Amp 25 RACE, as opposed to the standard Amp 25.
It's a bit lighter and better set up for running/racing. It's much longer in the torso than most 25L packs, for better weight transfer. You may also want to check how water is distributed in the race. My understanding is that it is supplied bottled, and the bottles and lids must all be accounted for. The Amp has bottle harnesses on both shoulder straps, but you would probably want to add an insulated cover and a drinking straw lid, to enable you to use these effectively.

I'm not sure if you're coming at this from a running or hiking background, but I'm assuming hiking, since you're posting here. Things to consider in your choices are ease of use, and fatigue-proofness. eg, the Source bladder with the slide off/fold over closure is slightly heavier than a Platy, but much easier to fill than a screw on lid, and much safer than a BigZip, even before you consider sand.

A good technique to drop weight quickly at the start is to carry canned or fresh food for the first day/night (That thumping sound you hear is collapsing ULers around the world) But rather than increasing the amount of dehyd you carry by 2lb to get up to the weight, carry 1lb dehyd, and 1lb fresh. That way you eat half your extra weight the first day. Apples and carrots are great, since you eat the whole thing including the apple core, leaving no trash/skin to carry. If using canned, open it the morning you start, and ziploc it.

Looking forward to the trip report on this one.

Regards, Rod