Shelter/Tarp vs. Free Standing Tent: HMG Echo / Yama Cirriform vs. Big Agnes Flycreek UL

Comparing the HMG Echo shelter system to the others is kinda unfair since it is Cuben so you'd need to use the Cuben Corriform as well I'd think. That is, what, 25 ounces? That's significant savings right there.

But, I think using a system like the Cirriform or Echo wins for most people because of the versatility. You can take whatever combo of pieces you need for the specific trip. Cold weather trips, leave the bug net home and take just the tarp. Bug season? Take both the tarp and bug tent.

Also, you can get combos of tarps that provide full coverage and bug nets for a good bit lighter than the examples you have listed. And, even in Cuben fiber, theyll cost around the same as a new FlyCreek. Although if I were to by a traditional, poled, "freestanding" tent, it would be the FlyCreek. Space and the entry way are the two most frequent downsides listed for the FlyCreek, but if it works for you, it's s great choice.

Do some more research on this topic on this site. You'll find tons of info. This question has been asked numerous times.

Anyway, I'm sure someone more knowledgable than I will comment eventually and give you some real advice.

Edit: All I did was post stuff you already knew. You really don't get anything besides the versatility of set up and a potential weight savings. To be quite honest.

The Fly Creek is NOT free standing. Try pitching it without stakes and you'll have a really bad time.

I own both a Cirriform Sil tarp and the Cirriform SW Cuben.
By far my favorite set up in my sorted shelter history.

Pitching is easy and very flexible. I use trekking poles anyway so it works for me.
the storm worthiness is definitely there.

Yes Jeff jeff, it is just a term used to describe this shelters particular style. You could, in fact, use the fly creek without any stakes. It just won't be near as nice as with them. So while it doesn't perfectly fit the definition, it works. Should we refer to them as "pop up" tents? I think that's what Mr. Caffin calls them. It is a better term I guess.

Note that the complete Echo II weight is 28.3 oz, not 30 oz. I know that's not a huge difference, but it does make it about 9 ounces lighter than the other two options.

Edit: I take that back, sort of. Including stuff sack, it's 29.9 oz. but I probably wouldn't take the sack on a trip. Then again, I wouldn't take the Fly Creek's sack, either. So you're right; there isn't much of a weight difference. And 37 oz for the Fly Creek includes stakes.

When I was comparing the flycreek (which is silnylon) and the cirriform in silnylon the weight is very similar, the size of the tent as well as the overall design of the tent is very similar. However looking at the two, the cirriform should have a weight advantage over the flycreek because it avoids having roughly 10oz of poles. There must be extra fabric in the cirriform tent compared to the flycreek. I wonder mostly where it's going, better splash protection, more headroom, stronger fabric?

Obviously the Cirriform in Cuben is lighter but that would not be an equal comparison to the fly creek. And yes, the fly creek isn't really a free standing tent.

The wife and I are FC2 users, and we are always together on the trail so splitting the shelter weight is not a bad choice here in the hot, humid and buggy east coast. It is hard to find a shelter much lighter after you start adding in the inners. I have looked at just about everything but have come up against what I call the cuben wall. If you can afford the cuben it opens you up to many lighter choices. You can save a few oz.'s with a SMD haven but the floor plan is a bit smaller. Also I would love to see what a TT protrail for 2 would weight in at, that is if it ever came to production. Again if money was not a problem I would be hauling CF instead of coated nylon.

One trick to make the FC2 a lot more free standing is to use a hiking pole across the foot end of the tent. Then you can set it up with full volume by tying out only the side stays. Ideally though, like a lot of shelters, it benefits from being fully staked.

jimmyb

I also was very attracted to the fly creek ul 2 for the weight and it being a 'freestanding' tent. I bought one, but even though the specs on it are nice, the amount of livable space is not what i thought it would be. I decided to go with the Tarptent Double Rainbow with carbon poles comes out to right around 38 ounces including stakes but not including all the stuff sacks, 40 ounces with them. So its a bit of a weight penalty, but the headroom if your tall and all around usable space goes up dramatically. I can sleep two and a dog in the double rainbow, whereas in the fly creek my feet and bag would hit the net when on my pad. its also impossible for two people to both sit up in the fly creek without hitting the netting at the top. IMO, As a one person palace, fly creek wins. But for two or one and a big dog, id say go a different option. But HYOH and all that of course.

EDIT: after rereading your post, if the fly creek worked for you when using your friends then maybe stick with it. You can get the footprint, thus having the ability to use just the footprint and fly, which would save some weight in the colder months when bugs are gone.

Hudson

I've used both the Big Sky Revolution 1P (Double Wall) and the Mirage 2P (Hybrid) and found most of the space is usable as the walls don't slope as drastically as other brands.
The quality of construction is exceptional and design well thought out and you can choose between different canopy/fly weights – plus they are factory seam sealed.
Additionally, both of my shelters were delivered within a week of order and emails answered promptly….

Cheers

Oh my! I forgot one of the biggest advantages a cirriform type set up has over a FlyCreek!

Dry Setup!! With a FlyCreek, pitching it in the rain gets your inner and floor all wet unless you MacGyver a way to keep the fly on top; which adds a huge amount of fiddle. With the Echo series or Cirriform series you pitch the fly first, then unload everything from your pack nice and dry on the inside where you then pitch the inner.

That is one of the main advantages quoted for these shelter systems over a FlyCreek.

Alright Sam, you've convinced me. Dry pitching is nice. Especially the fact that a Cuben version does shave off 10oz. Now if only cuben wasn't almost twice the price of silnylon…

Thanks for the feedback!

The idea of free standing tents— that they will be useable without stakes— is a myth. Most of the Big Agnes UL double wall tents need 10-12 stakes to be fully functional and weatherly. All the others I have seen ar pretty much the same.

For comparison, my SMD Gatewood needs just 6 stakes (as do many shaped tarp shelters) at far less cost and weight for any apples and apples silnylon construction comparison. I can add a light breathable bivy for a double wall approximation— when needed for weather/bug protection which adds 6 ounces and no other stakes required. It can be pitched first with the groundsheet added after for a dry interior.

Those single wall designs with side awnings over large vents are lighter, bug proof, easier to pitch and can be pitched without soaking the interior. Most require trekking poles, or can use alternate carbon or aluminum poles. Tarptent offers several designs, as does Six Moon Designs and MSR. My 2 person/3lb MSR Missing Link needs 8 stakes and two trekking poles, pitches in the rain with the interior remaining dry. It has a full floor and is bugproof and it has excellent ventilation.

Most hammock shelters offer double wall protection and the tarp can be pitched first, allowing you to handle the hammock and unload your pack with complete overhead protection.

The early double wall dome designs were actually free standing and could be picked up and moved around the campsite and even pitched on flat rock. Indeed, they would move by themselves in the wind and the stakes (or rock anchors) were required to keep them put. Many of those designs would nearly collapse in a strong wind, which is why I think the poled tent designs got more complex over the years, as well as attempting to increase the internal space for a given footprint (and turning them into little coffins). Single wall modified dome designs with two crossed poles are still being offered, but many lack the ventilation needed to keep them dry inside and most have rain-vulnerable doorways.

Aside from, and I think greater than, dry setup you'll also get significantly better weather shedding with a tarp-ish shelter like the Cirriform. Trekking poles and or trees are much stouter than the big unsupported arch of the back pole on the Fly Creek, and therefore you'll be able to tension the heck out of the ridgeline on the former, making it stronger in the wind and snow.

If I had to make a list of shelters for riding out a windstorm, the Fly Creek would be close to the bottom.

Those skinny little aluminum poles, hubs and plastic parts are the weak points and hard to replace or repair in town, let alone 20 miles in. If you lose or break a straight pole, Mother Nature has a warehouse in any forest :) Likewise missing stakes.

I've used a Fly Creek for years. I've always found it to be bombproof. I'm not sure of the definition of a windstorm, but I've been in several pretty powerful storms with high winds no problem.

As for dry set up: you have the option of leaving the fly clipped onto the inner. You set both up at the same time; fly covering the net inner. No real fiddle factor. Yes, some rain may get in, but IME never enough that I couldn't easily sponge it off the floor with something; i.e. a spoonful. I think that in driving rain any shelter is going to get some moisture inside during set up.

Finally, I've never had an issue with the poles breaking. I have had issues with the zippers!

All that said,I also own a Hex solo and use that in most situations. About a pound lighter. Much, much roomier than the F.C.–and cuben doesn't stretch.

Cuben is quite a bit more expensive. Browse the GearSwap forum or post a WTB ad. That's how I was able to afford a Cuben shelter. It's the only Cuben item I own and I'm so happy about it. Infinite times better than silnylon in MY opinion. I bought a MLD Cuben Cricket Tarp off GearSwap, which with all guy lines attached, weighs just 8.2 oz or something like that. I think it's an awesome shelter. Right now I use a TiGoat Kestrel bivy at ~6.8 oz with it, but I'm hoping to afford an inner net tent. Like the ones from MLD, SMD, ZPacks or BPWD. It would be a lot better for the summer heat and humidity down here in the south. Sorry for rambling

I think the modified a-frame type shelters are the coolest. I actually wanted a Cuben cirriform tarp or something similar, but ended up with the cricket. I'll probably never sell the cricket but I sure would like to own a Cirriform or similar. I think they're an awesome shelter system and I just love the way the look. Svelt and sexy.

Anyway, think long and hard about what you want. I honestly believe it's worth it to save up your money for an extra month in order to afford the Cuben version. Way better in my opinion. And, a lot of people end up with the Cuben version after buying the silnylon version because thy realize it's what they wanted all along. So don't settle. Go with you're gut. Buy once and save yourself money.

First of all, I find free standing to be an overrated point. If it's windy, you have to peg down free-standing tents aswell as those that are not. If it's not windy, even a quick and sloppy pitch for a non-free-standing tent will suffice, whereas you don't have to peg down a free-standing tent. Bottom line: You save some time in mild conditions.
With some ingenuity and experience, you can very well pitch tarps even on large rock surfaces using sticks and heavier rocks. Unless you hate setting up camp and the extra work severely destroys your backcountry experience, you don't need anything free-standing.

Concerning the HMG Echo II, I have never owned/used but always felt very mixed about that shelter. To me, it is some sort of a UL-contradiction. It's made out of high-end SUL cuben and costs a ton of money, but still has the full feature-overload of a heavyweight shelter. In my opinion, UL backpacking is (or should be) primarily about skills and minimalism (using small tarps, bivys, frameless packs etc.) that eliminate the necessity for long lists of fancy features. The HMG Echo on the other hand feels to me like an attempt to short-cut the skills section by investing money. It's not light by simple and sleek design but just by the lightweight fabric.
That view is purely personal, not objective at all and I totally see the pros of the Echo II (especially the modularity). But given the fact that non-cuben alternatives are available at comparable weights and fractions of the price, I could never justify buying the Echo II for myself. Sure, most alternatives have some other downside (such as single-wall design, inner-first-setup or so), but most of the time those downsides can be mitigated by skills and experience.