Sizing of Trail Runners

Not particular to trail runners. Always try shoes on. The Cascadia 9/10 is illustrative of the problem with shoes–the fit changed dramatically from one model to another.

> Buy trail running shoes a full size larger and fill the void with a thick innersole?
There are multiple answers here.

First of all, shoes come with different lasts: big fat ones, thin one, etc. You need to find a last the shape of your feet. This cannot normally be done within one brand. Otherwise, blisters, bloody toenails, pain and suffering.

Next, you need to get the right shoe WIDTH for your feet. Not many shoe mfrs tell you the width of their shoes, but for many it is about D on the Brannock scale. That may be too narrow or too wide for your feet. Get your feet measured on a Brannock Device, and only buy shoes of the correct width.

All feet swell after a few hours walking. You need to buy shoes a size larger than what feels (or measures) right in the shops. Otherwise, pain and suffering.

You should use good thick wool socks as well. The gold standard here is the Darn Tough Vermont brand (Amazon), followed by Thorlo. Cheap socks are … cheap socks.

Cheers

If you can, try the shoes on in person and do so late in the day as your feet will have swollen somewhat. I've found that staff in running stores tend not to take into consideration prolonged daily wear of trailrunners, so they will be more likely to offer you a tighter fit than you would find comfortable after a few hours' use. I generally upsize between 1-2 sizes depending on the width of the shoe, but I use the thinnest sock I can get away with. Thicker socks can mean hotter feet and more risk of blisters.

You'll discover that the same manufacturer will have multiple lasts, so don't just assume one model fits the same as the next one. More confusingly, some that say they use the same last actually don't. For example, inov-8 Standard fit (last) are wider in the TrailRoc 235/245/255 than in the Roclite 295, which in turn is wider than the X-Talon 212. My street shoe size is usually around a 10. I used to wear 11 in the TrailRoc 245; I now wear 11.5 in the Roclite 295 and 12 in the X-Talon 212.

Be prepared that shoe manufacturers will release / retire shoes each season, and the new version may not be an improvement over the old one. So once you have found a shoe you like, consider buying a second or even a third pair.

If you can't try on a particular shoe in person, a good way to reduce the risk is to use the shoefitr app on runningwarehouse.com (and probably soon Amazon, who acquired the app company in April). It asks you to plug in the make, model and size of your current shoe, and compares it against a different shoe, recommending an equivalent, slightly looser, or slightly tighter fit. Take advantage of the free return policy, and order two or three different sizes to try around the house, keeping the one that works and returning those that don't.

Oh, and finally, learn about different lacing techniques to help alleviate heel lift, toe bang and other potential problems. The standard lacing technique is often woefully inadequate. This is a good primer: http://sectionhiker.com/hiking-boot-lacing-techniques/

Anyone mind if I ask a slightly off-topic question?

Roger, you said;
"You should use good thick wool socks as well. The gold standard here is the Darn Tough Vermont brand (Amazon), followed by Thorlo."

Is the jury still out on sock thickness? I've just bought my first pair of trail runners (La Sportiva Helios, 1 size larger than my regular shoe)(btw: these shoes feel amazing), they are for a long distance hike. Some people have said go light socks, others medium. IIRC you're the first to say go thick.

I'm also looking to transition to trail runners this year. I already wear them pretty much full time, at my job (on my feet for 7+ hrs) and when day hiking (sierras). I size them appropriately for trail running.. with at least a full thumb width between my toes and the end of the shoe.

I see a lot of people talking about sizing up a full size.. but what sort of sizing are you starting from? I have a suspicion that people might normally wear shoes where their toes are right up at the end of the toe box. Am I OK with what i have now, or should i go EVEN bigger!?

Thanks guys (&gals)

As I've read, and as Roger said above, your feet swell after a few hours walking. I'm normally an AUS 10.5, and but bought 11.5 trail runners.

So I went to REI last night to check out the Solomon speedcross 3 (which felt pretty good) and this guy sits down next to me fresh off the PCT in a pair of the newer Brooks Cascadia 10. The toe area is split open and is sewn up with dentil floss and some glued with seam sealer. He said this is happening to all the Cascadia 10's

I drove 3 young men I met in Bakersfield to Kennedy Meadows a week ago. they just got out of school and were picking up the PCT at KM.

while there I talked to several PCT hikers and heard similar stories of hikers in Brooks and the splitting open of the toe area.

It's very common for long distance hikers to wear shoes 1 or 2 sizes "too big". And then tie them as loosely as possible. And maybe even remove the tongue (not many do this, but I've seen it.) And not necessarily fill up the space with thick socks. That guy was probably replacing the stock insoles, not adding them.

I measure a women's 7 but can't possibly squeeze my duck feet into such a thing, but that's my length. The largest shoe I wore on the PCT was a men's size 10. I finished the trail with a men's size 8EEEE with no added insoles and thin wool socks. My feet were very happy. These days I wear mens 8s with thin socks and take the insoles out entirely.

I wore Brooks Cascadias for much of the PCT and as my feet got bigger on the trail the fabric they were made of would immediately get holes where my toes were trying to get out. I mean, a new pair of shoes and about 2 days of walking. This was several years ago, I think they were Cascadia 2s.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions everyone! I chose the Brooks Cascadia 9 in 11.5 which is 1/2 size larger than my normal size and there is almost 3/4 inch between my big toe and the end of the shoe. I tried on the size 12 but they felt like clown shoes and also felt a little too roomy overall. I have a few shorter trips planned before our 8 day trip to the sierras so I have a little figure-it-out time.

"All feet swell after a few hours walking. You need to buy shoes a size larger than what feels (or measures) right in the shops. Otherwise, pain and suffering."

Sorry Roger, but I strongly disagree. For many decades of backpacking I have bought shoes/boots/runners that fit right in the shop and that size has been perfect on the trails. I don't disagree that YOUR feet may swell a full size, but not everyone's do.

"You should use good thick wool socks as well. The gold standard here is the Darn Tough Vermont brand (Amazon), followed by Thorlo. Cheap socks are … cheap socks."

AND…. It is not a given that you SHOULD use THICK socks… or even wool for that matter.

I take a selection of socks (thin, medium, and thick)and a selection of insoles to the shoe store for fitting. Some shoes come with very thick insoles and don't fit, but if I remove that insole and insert a thinner one the shoe fits… same kinda thing with socks… if a shoe feels too tight, remove the insole, put in a thinner insole and wear a thinner sock… may fit then… maybe not. If a shoe is too loose, try a thicker sock and/or thicker insole.

And personally, I prefer CoolMax socks over wool… wool holds too much water and take longer to dry.

Billy

Hi Mo

> Is the jury still out on sock thickness?
Which jury? :-)

Some (a few?) very hard walkers can get away with really thin socks. It can take years of walking before your feet can handle that though.

For the average walker, thick socks are imho the go.

The Darn Tough Vermont socks are regarded by many as the gold standard. They really are GOOD socks. But it's a big world, and opinions differ.

Despite all my ravings, you really need to try different shoes and socks and find what fits you and what works best for you. And MEASURE your feet first!

Asking other people what shoes to buy can be just plain silly: they might have thin C-width feet while you have fat 4E width feet (as an example).

Cheers

whereas I can't STAND thick socks. They annoy the crap out of me, they make my feet sweat and never dry, and just fill up the shoe too much.

I LOVE super thin coolmax socks. I run in them, I hike in them, I wear them to work. I'll never wear another pair of thick socks outside of winter.

It really is a matter of personal opinion and how your foot fits in shoes.

I wear Cascadia 8s and 9s with Wright Socks and love the combo.

Too bad to hear about the problem with the Cascadia 10s — better buy some more 9s while they're still available… and on sale!

A good rule of thumb is to go try on new shoes with the socks you like at the end of the day. That way IF your feet swell, then they will be larger at the end of the day – if they don't, well then they don't.

If you go at the end of the day then your feet are doing what YOUR feet do after being on them all day, under gravity's pull – and if yours swell or not you'll get an accurate size of what you need to wear on a hike.

I wore size 12 for years

Then I started getting blisters on my toes so I switched to size 13 – no blisters

Then I wore my size 12 again and no blisters

It's complicated…

I wore Darn Tough relatively thick socks a couple weeks ago on a backpack trip and ended up on the verge of ball-of-foot blisters because they were too hot and sweaty on my feet. I ended up hiking 3 of the final miles to camp and all 16 miles back to the car wearing homemade hurache sandals. Thank goodness I decided to throw in that extra pound of sandals. It's the only thing that saved my feet. I just can't do such hot socks.

I started using Brooks Cascadia 10s this year and have had zero problems. Have put on a couple of hundred miles on them on some multi-day backpacking trips. I got a full size larger than what I had in Salomons and they feel great.

I use thin toe socks in my trail runners and never get blisters.

I wear Smartwool PHD socks, I never have blisters in them and they last forever for me. I wear a different thickness depending on season and fit of the shoe.

Hi Piper

If you were switching from thin socks to thick DTVs, you just might need to go up 1/2 a size.

Cheers