caffeine pills instead of coffee?

Jennifer Mitol (Jenmitol) wrote:
"So my hiking plan … is to avoid carbs during the day and stick to fat and protein as my primary fuel source (both what I'm carrying as well as what I eat) and then at dinner go ahead and use carbs as recovery…"

So many of the low carb benefits (better blood lipid indicators, lower hunger, reduction in headaches, etc.) are associated with having steady blood sugar levels throughout the day. I'm doubtful that those benefits will be achieved if one feasts on carbs even once per day. IME over ~12 years, it takes several days away from high-glycemic index/load carbs to get hunger to level out, sugar shakes to disappear, etc., so that the body can reach a steady state. Note that Atkins himself recommended 2-3 days of very low carb for a person who had been cheating to get back on track and get appetite back in check.

Perhaps a more steady intake of low-glycemic carbs (berries, etc.) throughout the day deserves consideration instead of a carb dinner in order to avoid the post-dinner insulin surge and associated ill effects. I've had good results with the steady approach whether backpacking or not. Its a lot easier, for me at least, to keep the blood sugar in check with smaller doses at meals and snacks than to try to deal with a splurge at one daily meal.

Now having said all that, backpacking is hardly the typical dieting case, so perhaps it will work. And there is a lot of variation among individuals, so perhaps it will work for you. Either way, I'll be interested to hear how it turned out.

"So many of the low carb benefits (better blood lipid indicators, lower hunger, reduction in headaches, etc.) are associated with having steady blood sugar levels throughout the day. I'm doubtful that those benefits will be achieved if one feasts on carbs even once per day."

lol..I have never in my life had sugar shakes, bad lipids, or headaches due to a carb and I eat anything. I'll consider myself lucky.

Jennifer Mitol (Jenmitol) wrote about the guys losing a lot more weight than the gals.

Wifey likes to point this out too: I lose up to a lb a day and she (complains) that she loses little or nothing. One kinda dumb thing that stood out in hindsight thinking about it is that my standard practice tends to be splitting food evenly among all hikers. Given our relative body sizes and pack loads, she and I probably should split at least 60:40 in my favor to achieve equal % weight loss. Now since it's hard to carry enough food, the smaller folks tend not to turn down anything, so this is not so easy to implement …

I needed to lose a few pounds before starting the JMT last year, and boy did I! Our shuttle driver, when he picked us up at Whitney Portal, looked at me and said, "You lost a lot of weight!". Yet, at home, my body is VERY slow to lose weight (my husband can eat anything, and still be skinny – it's annoying).

I'm beginning to wonder if altitude had something to do with your experiences on the JMT — the fatigue, and inability to lose weight MIGHT have something to do with how your body adjusts to higher altitude.

So far, I've been up to 19,500ft without significant problems, so normally, my body deals with altitude very well (I had tons of energy on the JMT, even though I didn't eat that much and lost lots of weight).

If altitude is causing your issues, it will be WORSE on the CT, where you're going to be at altitude for much longer periods, without descending like the JMT.

Just something else to consider…

> Given our relative body sizes and pack loads, she and I probably should split at
> least 60:40 in my favor to achieve equal % weight loss.

Some of the early epic Antarctic explorations had this problem. Equal food rations of course, so all the big guys died first.

Cheers

Bio speaking, women SHOULD hold onto weight as long as possible. Sucks right? But bio speaking it is preserving the species. Men don't need the reserves to populate, women do. Over and over, this is a real topic for thru-hikers – women rarely get the quick lean look that men do, hiking the same miles.

If you go to far, your body will scream internally "we can't have babies!"…which is why anorexic and severely athletic women (think wiry, almost no body fat) quit having periods. The bodies self defense.

Even at my lowest weight, I still held onto fat (and I was thin then). Those pesky fatty areas never go away (butt, boobs, thighs). But maybe that is OK: as long as you are in good shape, can hike the hike and are at a happy weight to you – maybe that is OK?

Actually Valerie, that's a HUGE part of what happened with me last year. I have always had issues at altitude (first noticed on a month-long trek to Mount Everest…) but those are usually mitigated very nicely with Diamox.

Last year I did NOT bring it! It had somehow escaped my planning and as the last minute stuff popped up I thought, I haven't had altitude problems in the last few trips (ahem – all powered by Diamox…), I'm sure I'll be FINE!

yeah, well – i wasn't fine at all. I was physically pretty miserable the whole trip – but as soon as we would drop below 10k I felt GREAT! then up we'd go and down went my energy….

So this year I already have my 6-week supply in my hand!

I will most certainly post my results after I get back. I'm making my food boxes now, so I'll have a good list of what I'm bringing and what I'll be eating/drinking, and I'll let you know my weight loss/BMI change as well as any other fitness indicators I can come up with (5k time?), as well as my energy levels during the hike.

I like experiments!

"Perhaps a more steady intake of low-glycemic carbs (berries, etc.) throughout the day deserves consideration instead of a carb dinner in order to avoid the post-dinner insulin surge and associated ill effects. I've had good results with the steady approach whether backpacking or not. Its a lot easier, for me at least, to keep the blood sugar in check with smaller doses at meals and snacks than to try to deal with a splurge at one daily meal."

Yep – exactly. I never said I was COMPLETELY cutting out carbs – I eat all the fruit and veg I want (just no potatoes or corn, no grains, minimal added sugars, etc). We are working on a good plan for my all-day snacking on the trail that WILL include low levels of carbs, but carbs nonetheless. I'm really just trying to figure out how to keep the processed foods to a minimum yet still have trail-stable food smashed in my hip belt pockets…….

dried fruits, nuts, a homemade granola without grains (Grain-NO-la! hahaha), hmmmmm……..any other suggestions???

Re: other snack suggestions – are legumes high enough in carbs to exclude them for your purposes? If not,

Homemade tofu "jerky"

Roasted spiced garbanzos

Well, you’re not the only one who is trying for LCHF backpacking meals:

Metabolic efficiency test results: I’m a butter-burner!

The hardest part is trying to find the balance between carbohydrate and fats though, not for performance, but actually taste. I find if I add too much olive oil, it really ruins the morale because it makes the meal unpalatable. But at the same time, I know that fats are the best way to increase calorie density.

I did find out two things though:

I can eat rendered lard all day long and I can eat chocolate all day long. Cheese, olive oil, coconut oil and butter seems to have a saturation point. Same thing for certain nuts like Macedonia or Brazil (both of which doesn’t keep well outside the fridge, might be a viable option in the winter.)

There’s peanut, but I am allergic to many legumes and peanut is the worst one. So, better stick with tree nuts.

In the next week, I will be making pemmican to try before hunting season and winter camping season starts. I promise I won’t be so active on the forum when those seasons roll around. ;)

Pemmican: The Original Energy Bar

The only problem with pemmican is that they are expensive. But this season, I am going to try and render some fats out of bone marrows.

Steven Rinella covered how he made pemmican out of game meat, which is supposed to keep for decades.

How to Eat Like a Caveman with Steven Rinella – MeatEater

I contemplated on combining pemmican and bannock as part of the “wilderness LCHF” experiment (obviously won’t be purist) but decided against it since it is much easier to make freeze-dried meals at home than to try and pan fry over a stove in the wilderness.

Got ssssome NO DOZZZZZE ppilllls tt today.

If yyyooouu aaarree sssshakkking aaarre yyyyouuuu weeelll cccaffffinaatted?

For efficiency, plus caffeine, plus something like satisfaction I like dark chocolate covered coffee beans – awesome, and no prep. They don't weight too much and offset a (very) little by the saved fuel. I feel the chocolate partially makes up for the lack of warmth. :-)

Also, if you haven't tried this – espresso style fine grind coffee sprinkled on ice cream is also mind blowing – vanilla is best. Yes I too balked when this was suggested to me, but I went ahead and tried it.

First, I do a caffeine pill every four hours while hiking. I did it on my thru and have continued since. While I do have some of the concerns that Art mentioned regarding "performance enhancing drugs" I chose to do it and there has been nothing but positive effects for me.

Second, cold mocha in the morning has become a new ritual. It can be as simple as a couple packs of hot chocolate and instant coffee.

As far as diet, I believe you are approaching this completely wrong. If your goal is to use body fat purposely for fuel then I believe the best way to do this is to eat high carbs, not low carbs. What? For my body weight and typical exertion, I burn off about 600 calories per hour. For short term hikes I will eat 300 calories per hour of high carbs and use body fat for the remaining half. I can sustain this fuel for over 50 mile days and for a several day period where I generally lose about a lb a day.

The above strategy applies to what I call short term hiking. In your case where you are looking to purposely lose weight, I believe it could also apply at least for part of the hike. I believe this strategy makes more sense than fat consumption since that is the fuel that you already have available from your body. I would also add small mounts of protein during the day and a healthy dose when you stop in the evening for recovery.

I have to laugh at claim such as "I hiked 12 miles last Sunday eating only lettuce." news flash, That only proves that you didn't push beyond using your glycogen levels plus the amount of energy from fat conversion. push some of these strategies out to 30, 40 or 50 mile days and the strategies will fall apart. "But Malto, I don't hike that far in a day." Yes, but if you are eating into your bodies glycogen levels then you risk going into deficit on back to back days. eventually that will play out negatively.

Jen, I would reco metering your calories in, don't do any crazy diets and avoid the binging in towns.

>"I'll let you know my weight loss/BMI change as well as any other fitness indicators I can come up "

The thing I ponder the most about my own weight loss as I increase activity (and often watch my diet more) each hiking season, is how much of that weight on the scale is fat versus muscle. And how modest shifts of losing 5 or 10 pounds of fat while adding that much muscle isn't reflected in body weight or BMI, but makes such a performance difference (power to weight).

A full-blown body-fat-% measurement would be cool, but a simple caliper test "pinch an inch" at the waist would give a good estimate.

For a woman with some weight to lose:

180 pounds, 45 pounds of muscle to start. Muscle/total mass = 0.25

Drop 5 pounds consisting of 15 pounds fat lost, 10 of muscle gained. Muscle/total mass = 55/175 = 0.314

Change in muscle percentage = 0.314/0.25 = 126%. And those muscles are in better shape at the end of the trip, so the performance benefit would be even bigger.

>"I like experiments!"

Without numbers, it's not an experiment – it's just blowing stuff up.

"Change in muscle percentage = 0.314/0.25 = 126%"

Not to belittle the point, but the math is off.
The change is actually +26%, not 126%.

A lot of ultra runners talk about increasing fat burning efficiency (not the same obviously as totally getting rid of all carbs).

Marc Laithwaite did some articles on iancorless' website:

http://iancorless.org/2015/02/19/bullet-proof-coffee-boost-your-endurance-by-marc-laithwaite/
http://iancorless.org/2015/02/25/fat-burning-efficiency-by-marc-laithwaite/

Even if not in the bulletproof coffee thing (I'm personally not either, can't stand coffee) they are nice starter articles.

I can't help feeling that somewhere along the line someone has sort of missed the whole point of making and drinking hot coffee.

Cheers

Some mornings I love hot coffee….but for times like when I was packing up at 4am at guitar lake to head for Whitney….I sucked down some caffeinated Gu energy gel. Didn't taste great…but got the job done and added a few calories/maltodextrin too.
Just one less thing to have to do in the morning.

I have used Clif Shot Energy Gels on many trips. I know these aren’t pills. But similar in concept. They are especially helpful in dry camping situations. You do have to drink water when taking these. I have found .25 liters is ideal. Something to keep in mind.

Cliff also offer ‘Mini Coffee Bars’… and they taste good.

The morning coffee ritual is a way to get a significant amount of water into me. I’m more of a sipper during the day. I could just guzzle a cup of warm water, but I’m more likely to do it if I enjoy it. A hydration tab with caffeine might work similarly, but it just wouldn’t go as well with breakfast.

I drink coffee a few times every day, so to substitute for the afternoon cup, I sometimes eat a GU packet with caffeine while walking. The cake frosting flavor and texture are like dessert after lunch, but mostly it helps smooth out the afternoon energy dip. However, the trash from them is sticky and the guilt is heavy.

Just say No

Starbucks Via, even cold, is still working for me.  On longer trips they’ve now got a larger container I put into a zip lock.  Probably need a small lab scoop for pouring powder into plastic Coke bottles though.  Later on in the morning I’ll shake up some Black Cherry mix in the same bottle and round it off with effervescent root beer powder.  Repeat daily.

Just say no

I used to say no, like Nancy insinuated for other mind altering substances, .. but that jolt of caffeine wakes up more brain cells than going without.  How is any patriotic American expected to function without brain juice?  It would be like watching Dawn of the Zombies crossed with breaking camp.

I do the morning instant coffee thing (Cascadia Coffee Roasters “Cannonball” is pretty good) but for a lunch/early afternoon pickup when my body/brain is expecting the little boost that I usually get from a cup of tea, I use the Nuun Hydration Sport+Caffeine tablets in water. I’m sure that would also serve as a better morning alternative to a caffeine pill.