Exped Downmat Winterlite Review and Xtherm Comparo

[[ Drew ]]

I purchased an Exped Downmat Winterlite from REI the day they became available. The specs are quite impressive from a BPL standpoint (I got the Long-Wide model; I am 6' 185#)

-R value = 7*
-25.6"W x 77.6"W
-23.5oz
-2-way valve
-Included pump sack ('schnozzel')

After using the mat on a few trips I was quite disappointed with the mat and cannot recommend it. I'll preface this by saying that this is a very premium mat at $250. Prior to this mat I had an Xtherm, and this mat should be even warmer with +1.3 r value. However, each time I used the mat, my heels and elbows would get cold while the rest of my body was warm. I figured my body was just struggling to initially warm the down in 35-40F temperatures. Also, despite this being the LW model, it's only marginally wider and just appreciably longer than a regular size tapered Xtherm. Judging by the specs the LW Winterlite should be luxuriously large for someone my size, but I found that my feet would constantly slide off the tapered sides. Part of this is due to the extremely slick material on the top of the pad. I figured this would be quieter than my old noisy Xtherm, but the slick surface makes a lot of noise against baselayers or a quilt.

Unsurprisingly, I returned the mat today. I just received the 2015 TaR Neoair Xtherm Max LW and compared it with the Winterlite to be sure. During this comparision I figured out why my feet and elbows were getting cold. I also discovered what is IMO, a huge design flaw and some surprising corner cutting on Exped's part.

I knew from another user's Synmat Hyperlite review that the insulation doesn't cover the entire mat, but his is excessive:

ZERO insulation along the sides of the mat. What's the purpose of it being a wide insulated mat?

Here's why my heels were freezing cold each time I used the mat. ZERO insulation right where my heels rested

Even in the insulated area the down shifts to the point that 'holes' where there is no insulation form. There's no way to know if there are holes (so you can shift the down back to cover them) unless you have a backlight behind the mat.

Another criticism I have are that oil/sweat/moisture stains the mat almost immediately unless you are perfectly clean – something that's not the case when you're backpacking.

The Downmat is VERY warm where insulated and it's wonderfully easy to fill up using the included schnozzel pump sack. However, the TaR Neoair Xtherm wins on space, weight, durability, maintenance, and price – $229 vs $249.

Here's a few comparoson shots between the DM Winterlite, TaR Xtherm Max LW, and Tar Xtherm Regular (2014):

DM Winterlite Weighs in slightly overweight at 24.05oz (23.5 claimed):

Xtherm Max LW weighs in underweight at 21.40oz (23oz claimed):

The schnozzel is still quicker and way easier to fill the Downmat, but notably the new Xtherm Max comes with a much larger pump sack than the 2014 version, in addition to a normal stuff sack. It took me about 5-6 fills of the larger pump sack to fill the Xtherm:

Schnozzel:

New, larger pump sack for Xtherm:

Stuff sack for Xtherm:

Despite having claimed lengths of 77.6 (DM) and 77 (Xtherm), the Xtherm is in reality a good 1" to 1.5" longer than the Downmat. It's a bit curious since the DM is supposed to be 6/10" longer, but the Xtherm's slight extra length is welcome. If you're 6' tall like me you can lay on your stomach with your feet stretched all the way out and remain on the mat.

Finally, here are some close up shots showing the material and texture of the mats. 2014 Xtherm, Dowmnat Winterlite, and Xtherm Max, respectively. Both sides of the 2014 Xtherm have a soft feel, possibly due to a urethane coating according to one reviewer, while the Downmat and Xtherm Max have harder-feel materials. The 2014 Xtherm has the most grip and the Downmat is the most slick.

[Mercedes Clemens]

Great, detailed comparison, thanks so much.

I don't have either pad, but out of curiosity I just checked my Downmat Lite 5 — zero insulation in the side baffles. And there is less down in one end than the other.

Last weekend temps ended up being about 15 degrees below forecast (down to 22F, I'm a really cold sleeper) and I found the pad barely adequate. I'd keep waking up and shifting off whichever side baffle I was up against. Mystery solved. Hadn't occurred to me that it was only a partially insulated pad.

[Ethan A.]

Very helpful comparison – thanks for taking the time to post. Do you know if the lack of insulation in the side baffles is also true of the synthetic insulation Exped models like the Synmat Winterlite?

Also which pad is your current favorite?

I'd love a lightweight rectangular 72 x 25 with an R value of +5, but only way to get that now is by cutting and resealing an LW model.

[Alaskaoneday]

The new insulated Sea to Summit pads have the insulation in the center and not all the way to the edges of the pad too.

Ultralight Insulated Mat Large

Comfort Plus Insulated Mat Large Rectangular

[Alaskaoneday]

Pictures added

[[ Drew ]]

"Very helpful comparison – thanks for taking the time to post. Do you know if the lack of insulation in the side baffles is also true of the synthetic insulation Exped models like the Synmat Winterlite?

Also which pad is your current favorite?

I'd love a lightweight rectangular 72 x 25 with an R value of +5, but only way to get that now is by cutting and resealing an LW model."

Yes, as far as I have seen the other new Exped models lack side insulation. IMO they really blew it by skimping on the insulation. It essentially defeats the purpose of having an insulated pad if your extremeties cannot benefit from it. I constantly stuggle with cold feet and I was shocked that I couldn't get my feet warm with an R7 pad, but of course it makes sense now.

This is pure speculation, but here's what I think happened: Originally when the pads were announced, they were supposed to have higher R values and slightly lower weights. For example, the DM Winterltie was going to be R8 and the Synmat Winterlite was supposed to be R6. It wasn't until they were released that the R values were actually certified at R7 and R4.9, respectively. I think to keep the original ratings (R value), they would have ended up being overweight by a few ounces, which would have limited their UL marketability. Thus, they removed insulation from the "less critical" areas to keep weight low at the cost of usability and R value. Again, this is my own 'educated' speculation, so take it with a grain of salt.

I am just disappointed because I waited months for these pads to come out and they just have too many drawbacks to not get a Thermarest or other comparable pad. The fact that mine was $250 was the nail in the coffin.

I like having a 4 season pad that I can use year round and for that I think the Xtherm is the best of the best. I actually prefer the 2014 model's materials since they are more durable (top/bottom, 30D/70D vs 30D/50D) and slightly 'tacky' so your quilt doesn't slide all over the place. My shelter has extremely slick silnylon floor material and the old xtherm stays in place due to the tackiness. The new Xtherm max I got is a bit smoother, but still better than the DM Winterlite, which would move all over the place throughout the night, even with me on it.

[Richie S]

Great review. Really useful.

Thanks for putt g it together.

[[ Drew ]]

Thanks, I hadn't seen much on BPL or BP blogs on these two mats in the way of reviews, so I figured it might help to have one.

I added a few more pics and comments to the OP.

[Sean Passanisi]

Thanks, DD.

I'm an owner of a Hyperlite and Downmat Winterlite in MW. I would like to make a few points for people who are evaluating the purchase of a new mat.

I used the older model Downmat UL7 for over 100 nights. When looking at the new models, I was worried about the taper. If you search the forums, most members here who have chosen Exped over Thermarest did so based on the comfort of the vertical baffles and the rectangular, non-tapered edge. From the observations I've read here, it seems that a mat with vertical baffles feels wider than a mat with horizontal baffles of the same width. I researched this issue thoroughly: you won't find many (any?) examples of someone moving from an Exped to a Thermarest for improved comfort. YMMV. However, the Xtherm seems to be the overall more popular choice because it's lighter and it has a higher denier bottom (presumably more puncture resistant).

With the tapered edge, the new Exped models lose an "edge" in the comfort department. However, Exped has also reduced the weight of some models and boosted the R-value of others.

For me, I tried the regular size in the new tapered model. I thought I could make it work, but decided to splurge on weight and get the wider mat. I'm 5'8" 165 lbs and a side sleeper. These new mats fit me perfectly ( I do think someone over 6' will prefer a LW to a MW in the new Exped models). Since I sleep on my side, my entire body is centered on the mat. The extra inches on the side are great when I rotate during the night. The taper is a non-issue for me in the wide model, it's more spacious than my old Downmat UL 7 in regular width. The foot area is perhaps a bit narrower, but I sleep in my a bag so my feet are centered anyway. I spent two nights on the Hyperlite inside a tent on a snowy night and felt no cold whatsoever.

Anyway, there are many factors to consider and many models to suit various situations.

[Stephen M]

I had only just upgraded my downmat ul 7 Regular to a Synmat UL 9 lw when these tapered pads came out, I have looked in Rei a few times and they never the newer pads in
stock.

[John Vance]

I moved from both exped ul syn and downmat in the rectangular reg versions to just the xtherm large taper as my only pad. I find it marginally more comfortable and much warmer than the syn mat and just a bit warmer than the downmat ul 7 when inflated to a comfortable level. With the current exped changes I would certainly make the same choice and go xtherm again.

[[ Drew ]]

—"I find it marginally more comfortable and much warmer than the syn mat and just a bit warmer than the downmat ul 7 when inflated to a comfortable level. With the current exped changes I would certainly make the same choice and go xtherm again.—

It's interesting that you mention that the warmth of the xtherm is more than that of the DM UL7. I've found that to be true as well, in my case the DM was R=7 and the Xtherm is R=5.7. It would seem that the DM should be significantly warmer, but that's not the case!

The Xtherm feels warm almost immediately due to the reflective quality of the mat internals. The DM is of course very warm, but due to it being down, takes a few minutes to warm up the air and down inside.

Does anyone happen to know if the heat reflection is the main source of insulation in the xtherm? I know the triangular 'baffles' inside also limit air movement much like down loft does, but does that account for more insulation value?

[Brad Rogers]

I too am a Exped Downmat UL7 user and I admit I am intrigued by the new xtherm MAX regular size. I chose the exped over the original Xtherm because I wanted a rectangular pad but with the max that is a non issue. I am very interested to hear people's comments (and actual weights) on the regular Xtherm MAX. It would save me about 4.55oz if you include the snozzle weight but at $200 it's not a cheap investment especially when I already have a high dollar warm pad.

[[ Drew ]]

I found a product review in which the buyer said his Xtherm Max regular size was 15.4oz. That seems about right, as the new 2015 mats are a bit underweight vs. spec weight. That's a pretty nice bonus since it's usually the opposite. For example, my Xtherm Max Large is spec'd at 23.5 oz, but weighs only 21.4 oz, so it would make sense that the regular size would be ~15.4oz since it's spec'd at 17.3oz

[Chad “Stick” Poindexter]

Wow, great post, thanks for sharing…. and it confirmed my suspicions… I have been a long time NeoAir fan, but last Christmas my wife bought me a SynMat UL7 pad, and while I will admit, it is a nice pad, it didn't come close to what I consider its direct competition, the XLite. Here is a write up I did on the SynMat UL7, which I did use the XLite to compare it too…

Anyway, I have been happy using a little less warm pad combined with a thin ccf pad for colder weather hikes since it gave me a little extra just in case the air pad popped and wasn't repairable in the field, but I have also been thinking about a warmer pad to try… and my wife could use it since she is a colder sleeper than I. These Winterlite pads and the new XTherm Max were some that I was debating, but based on what I have found out from using the SynMat UL7 and the XLite, I was leaning more towards the XTherm. Your post confirms that for me I think… so thanks!

Some things that stood out to me about my SynMat were that it wasn't near as warm for me as I expected it to be (and nowhere near as warm as the XLite, despite the similar R Values), and between the rolled edges and how slick (although comfortable feeling) the material was, my arms would not stay on the (rectangular shaped) pad for anything (which I found odd because so many complain about this with the NeoAirs, and I haven't found that to be true…) Also, as you mentioned, the material is quite noisy when other materials are moved around on it… I also found that the material on my SynMat does indeed stain quite easily, which is annoying…

Anyway, this made me hold my Synmat up to the light to see if I could see any insulation, and it looked the same across the entire mat, however, there wasn't much to see at all… I will try to post a photo later. Just curious what others Symnmat UL7's look like when held up to the light?

[Brad Rogers]

Dang at 15.4oz that would save me even more weight. Wonder if there will be any 4th of July sales?

[Ross L]

There are some factory 2nds on sale here: http://www.backcountrygear.com/clearance/where/manufacturer/Therm–to-a–to-Rest.html

[John Vance]

They may go fast

[Overshot]

I just got one, at a bargain price of 139.99 shipped. Only 23 left according to their website.

[[ Drew ]]

@Chad

Thank you, I've benefitted from watching a lot of your youtube gear reviews, too. I agree with you on the TaR horizontal baffles – I've never had an issue with them collapsing near the edge since I never have my body centered over the edge. It seems that it's only an "issue" when you inspect the mat, but not actually in practice.

@Bradford

You might want to search out some exact info to corroborate that 15.4oz weight I saw on the web somewhere; I'd hate to be wrong on that if that was your main motive for buying. I'd be really surprised if it was over spec, though (~17oz).

[Cameron Habib]

A few weeks ago I managed to pick up a new XTherm Max from EMS for $29.95, must have been some kind of pricing error on their site. May be worth keeping an eye out on there for similar "issues."

[Justin Miller]

If I could only get the Xtherm's materials and construction in the Exped's vertical baffles…

I have the Xtherm (tapered) for cold weather and just picked up the Hyperlite this season for a lighter 3 season pad. I had been using the UL7 several years back but had 2 of the baffles separate on me after 2 lightly used seasons. I started to feel that the lighter materials Exped was using to be worrisome prompting me to pick up the Xtherm. I never did find the horizontal baffles to be nearly as comfortable–not necessarily uncomfortable but I just don't seem to get the same solid rest on the Xtherm. I got that reminder a few weeks again when I finally put the Hyperlite to use. Took a roadtrip through southern Utah and tossed both pads in the car.

I did notice the Hyperlite started to be taxed right around 30F. A tiny amount of chill was barely noticeable but mostly throughout. I did not find the lack of insulation in the sides to be more apparent. Next evening was set to be even cooler, ~27F, so I broke out the Xtherm. It was of course warmer but despite that, I found myself waking up more often.

[Nick D]

"If I could only get the Xtherm's materials and construction in the Exped's vertical baffles…"

+1

I just couldn't get as comfortable on my Xlite as my UL Synmat. I know some like it, but I'm also not a fan of the tacky fabric on the Neoairs. I prefer the softer Exped feel when laying on it and haven't had an issue with sliding off.

Now I'd be lying if I said I wasn't intrigued by the Xtherm Max though… those are impressive numbers for a full blown winter mat.

[Alaskaoneday]

So after sending my Sea to Summit pad back due to the insulation only being in the center of the pad, I pulled the trigger on a Xtherm Max. When it arrived, I inflated it, and laid down on it only to hear a "pop-snap" sound. To my surprise, the pad was still holding air. Rolled over on it and hear a few more of the same sounds. The pad was still holding air and was not deformed any where. Held it up to the light but the inner material does not let light pass through. Then I took my flashlight and shined the light in the top baffles and found a surprise. Quite a few internal baffles were damaged right under my torso. The first pic show a good baffle and the others show how the light passes through the damaged areas.
My search for the right pad continues.

[peter tooke]

Richard R, "My search for the right pad continues." Its been several months since you posted that and a 6'3" 225 lb side sleeper here curious how your search worked out…? Thanks

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