Rain gear or windbreaker?

A hooded rain shell parka can serve for rain or for wind. A windbreaker can serve only for wind. The choice is obvious.

–B.G.–

Your title and text are a bit mismatched but it seems like you've already ruled out carrying a windbreaker and opting for a rain jacket only, with the question being if the Helium is the best option as a rain jacket that can do double duty as a wind shirt?

If so, dunno. Don't own one. Own a cheapie Marmot polywhatever lined rain jacket that works well enough as a rain jacket and breathes about as well as a garbage bag.

I also own a Arc Squamish that I use as a (gasp) windshirt, sleeping shirt, and mid layer (not insulation per se but creates a micro climate of sorts that adds extra warmth under a hard shell). But you're not interested in that so….

If you actually want something that breathes like a wind shirt, I'll suggest a third option, which is to buy a nylon long sleeved button-down shirt as your hiking shirt. I have a few which I bought at Eddie Bauer and Costco. While I had my Squamish in my summit pack, I never needed more than my nylon shirt when I was climbing St. Helens on a pretty windy day. Much of that day was spent above tree line. It breathes as well, if not better than my Squamish and the only thing it lacks is a hood.

I was thinking the OR Helium because the fabric is so light weight it almost feels like a windbreaker. I have also seen where some windbreakers don't breath very well like the Montbell Tachyon Anorak. I thought the Helium would work as good as a poor windbreaker and a good rain jacket. I don't know thats why I'm asking.

Personally,i would not use a Helium as a windshirt. I bought it in Colorado when I left my EVENT rain jacket hanging on a tree. When I used it for hiking in the rain, even on a cool day I sweated and got uncomfortably steamy…….especially on uphills. I f I wanted something to do double duty, I'd go for an EVENT lined jacket or a Neoshell lined jacket, with the Neoshell actually making a pretty darn good windshirt since it's so breatheable.

Neither a rain jacket nor a windshirt do very well replacing each other IMO. A rain jacket does fine for wind only when stationary and a wind shirt quickly wets out in any real amount of rain. If you can afford both – get both. If not, buy some Dri Ducks and you get a very lightweight, breathable(much more than the Helium) and cheap rain jacket.

Ryan

"If you can afford both – get both. If not, buy some Dri Ducks and you get a very lightweight, breathable(much more than the Helium) and cheap rain jacket."

^^^^ This.

I live in California and use a Houdini for a windshirt and if there is a decent chance of rain I'll bring my Frog Toggs rain jacket and pants. The Frog Toggs were about $15 for the pants AND jacket and I don't have to worry about them wetting out like even some high end 'waterproof' breathable jackets do. Plus the jacket is extremely lightweight.

You'll get wet with a waterproof jacket anyway – from sweat. The exception to this would be if it's really cold outside and you aren't doing high exertion hiking. In that case, the rain jacket will probably keep you drier.

Saving a couple hundred dollars by not buying a 3-layer rain jacket let's me get gear that I'll enjoy more, but that's just my personal preference.

Kurt, these days you can get a windshirt just about anywhere along the breathability spectrum. Of course, more breathability almost always means less wind resistance, and only experience can tell you what you prefer. Windshirts with a top level DWR will resist drizzle for quite a while, provided the DWR is in good shape (read: the shirt is fairly clean), and you can get a shirt which has such a DWR and is quite breathable. No windshirt will do much in hard rain.

The Helium is an especially poor choice for a part-time windbreaker, as it has below par breathability and an inner fabric which is very sticky against bare skin.

Could always try a helium hybrid. It's a wind shirt with waterproof panels. I have one and like it. Just don't expect it to keep you dry in a downpour.

I think it's been mentioned above, but Frogg Toggs are pretty breathable. Certainly more so than a Helium, for about the same weight. If you're willing to forgo all fashion sense, and don't mind spending $15 a year on a new set (they do rip easily), they're pretty awesome.

I always bring something truly waterproof when hiking on the east coast. I'd be miserable too often otherwise. Ponchos and Packas are other good options with superior airflow, but you might look a little ridiculous using one as a windshirt–could work, though.

this seems to be an ongoing and never ending discussion (disagreement) on this site.

I look at it this way :

the full spectrum of our clothing options serve to provide us comfort, but ultimately survival. if weight is no issue you simply bring both.

but this being BPL, weight is THE major issue.
now, if you back weight down to #2 and make survival your central theme, it seems to me the rain gear should win out every time over the wind shirt. the weight difference between the two is 3-4 oz, but the survival benefit is worth it.

I never carry a wind shirt for a trip longer than 5-6 hours, no matter what the weather. my UL rain jacket weighs 6 oz.
a cap3 mid weight shirt combined with a UL rain jacket is all you ever need.

windy and warm – no extra layer
windy and cool – cap3
windy and cold – rain jacket
windy and very cold – cap3 + rain jacket
rainy and warm – no extra layer enjoy the rain
rainy and cool – rain jacket
rainy and cold – cap3 + rain jacket

Think of a wind shirt as a shirt rather than a jacket. A windshirt is never a rain shell, no more than you can wear any other shirt in the rain. Most will get by for sporadic light drizzle, but that is about it. Depend on one for rain coverage and you risk hypothermia.

Rain gear always stands out on the spreadsheet, but you need the protection. You can fight it all you want, but it is a core essential. There ain't no free lunch!

A poncho gives the best coverage for the weight. Ponchos are breathable and can be used for shade and emergency shelter. Your whole pack stays dry too— harness and all.

An umbrella might work for you. Less coverage and it occupies a hand, but great in hot muggy weather and usefull when the sun comes out too.

From there, it's rain shells. None breathe well enough for use like a wind shirt, but all will block wind well and can be used that way in camp and on rest stops. Get one with as many venting options as possible. For all the light weight of the more Spartan rain shells with no pit zips or other vents, they are still like wearing a plastic bag and I would much rather put up with the cons of a poncho.

"I never carry a wind shirt for a trip longer than 5-6 hours, no matter what the weather."

Interesting. So what do you do then when the weather is that windy that you need something against that wind, but it's very unlikely to rain ? Because that happens to me frequently and know nothing that breathes like crazy and is waterproof at the same time.

If you're cold, put on WPB jacket

If you're warm, take it off

So that could be every 10 minutes or so then.

"" Interesting. So what do you do then when the weather is that windy that you need something against that wind, but it's very unlikely to rain ? Because that happens to me frequently and know nothing that breathes like crazy and is waterproof at the same time. ""

if its not raining, you only need something for the wind if the wind is cold.
Cap 3 first. then rain shell if that's not enough to keep you warm.

That would be logic but what if you're cold in the wind so then you would need that WPB but in that you get overheated in just a couple of minutes ? So without the rain shell on, you get/stay cold, but with it on you get way too warm in just a few minutes.

I can't tell you the best way for you to thermo regulate no more than I can say that La Sportiva Wildcats are the best shoes for your feet. My comfort zone is between 30-60*F and I don't need to pack any insulation above freezing. My wife seems to get cold when the temperatures drop below 70*F.

I personally find a nylon shirt is a suitable replacement for a wind shirt 90% of the time.

I think the Arc Squamish is a great piece of kit and worth the 6-7-whateveritistoolazytoweigh ounce weight penalty.

I think wearing a rain jacket in anything above freezing when it's not raining is a miserable experience and that they are a much less than ideal replacement for a wind shirt.

Your mileage will certainly vary.

For me, there's a range where either WPB jacket with front unzipped, or no jacket is okay. Maybe slow down if I'm too warm, speed up if I'm cold.

The beauty of BPL is people can try out different ideas to see what works for them : )

How I use a windshirt:

I might wear a windshirt taking off from the trailhead on a cool overcast morning and take it off when hitting the switchbacks and I'm too hot. In between, I might unzip it and even pull it up above my pack belt for more cooling. It might go back on for a rest stop, or walking an exposed level traverse or shady downhill section. It is the first thing I reach for when I'm chilled by wind or light precip as well as around camp. It is the "seal" for my layering system, keeping a layer of warm (hopefully) dry air next to my skin while allowing my wicking under layers to move moisture on out. I can wear it with a base layer or over my light fleecy mid layer like an R1 top. It is like part of a 3-in-1 jacket, where I can wear the shell alone (over my base layer), the fleece alone, or all together. If you get a ligh color, it doubles for sun and bug protection. I have worn the shell alone while my sweaty base layer dries or is being laundered.

The windshirt excels on cool, high humidity PNW days with 45f temps and 80-90% humidity and sporadic drizzle.

I do use the same layering scheme with my rain shell— when it is raining. No rain shell is actually air permeable, which is quite different than vapor permeable.

The Montane Minimus is more stormproof than a windshirt and there's not a great weight penalty at 232 grams. No matter what you get, it'll be a compromise so it involves a lot of testing on your part to get the right combination. I get wet in my Minimus, but I sweat a lot.

I remember some guys here, talking about a walk on the PCT last year, and the weather was custard on top of the pass which they were retreating from, and a young girl with a windshirt and shorts was coming the other way, she pulled out the umbrella and kept on walking.

http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/shell/minimus-jacket

It’s time to go for another MTB ride, the weather look crap, rain for sure, but I’ll be using a Windshirt for most of the ride (Montane Featherlite) I'll be riding route 76 later this year and I'm not sure what I'll take, I'm seriously thinking about my Patagonia Houdini.

http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/windproof/featherlite-pullon

Art, what rain jacket did you choose?

actually have 3 rain jackets,

but for SUL situations I currently use the North Face Triumph Anorak (180g in size XL).
I'm actually a size L but prefer my rain top over sized and roomy.
you can't buy it anymore.
not sure what I'll pick when it wears out, have become fond of it and prefer anoraks to full zip.

"I look at it this way :

the full spectrum of our clothing options serve to provide us comfort, but ultimately survival. if weight is no issue you simply bring both.

but this being BPL, weight is THE major issue.
now, if you back weight down to #2 and make survival your central theme, it seems to me the rain gear should win out every time over the wind shirt. the weight difference between the two is 3-4 oz, but the survival benefit is worth it.

I never carry a wind shirt for a trip longer than 5-6 hours, no matter what the weather. my UL rain jacket weighs 6 oz.
a cap3 mid weight shirt combined with a UL rain jacket is all you ever need.

windy and warm – no extra layer
windy and cool – cap3
windy and cold – rain jacket
windy and very cold – cap3 + rain jacket
rainy and warm – no extra layer enjoy the rain
rainy and cool – rain jacket"

+1 except for the Cap 3, but that's a nit of personal layer choice. My Montane Minimus anorak does it all for Sierra trips. 5.1 oz.
rainy and cold – cap3 + rain jacket

anorak – no full front zipper for ventilation so not as flexible

extra weight of a full zipper is negligible