The basic 4 if $$ were not a concern

Your going to get such a wide variety of equipment with this thread that i honestly don't know where to start. Some common points that seem to be mostly agreed upon are:

A quilt for your temperature zone, or most likely more than one for different conditions, from Enlightened Equipment/ Underground quilts/ zpacks/ Mountain Laurel Designs or any other cottage company. Also Western Mountaineering sleeping bags are considered King to many people, and are very very nice.

Tent or tarp/ single or double walled or a combination thereof. Most people agree that TarpTents are awesome. Also a lot of people love mids. The zpacks duomid or duomid xl in cuben is one i am considering getting in the future.

Backpacks are another that will vary widely. This is the one area where lighter is not necessarily better, since you want to be able to hold the weight you're carrying comfortably. I have a ULA Ohm which i love, and they make different packs in varying sizes (liters). Gossamer Gear, ULA, HMG, Zpacks, are all companies that make nice lightweight packs, as well as too many others to name.

Interested to see some of the responses you will get, as i doubt i could come up with a more generic question.

_Hudson

Welcome to the club! We're all still trying to figure it out ourselves….

I think more than gear recommendations, you probably need an introduction to some of the concepts that guide what we do.

First concept I had to learn: Everything weighs something and nothing weighs nothing. What that means to me is that the best way to drop pack weight is to leave stuff at home. At the end of a trip, make three piles out of the stuff in your pack. One pile is stuff you used a lot. Another pile is for the things you feel you need to be safe (first aid kit, emergency shelter). The last pile is stuff you didn't use at all. Look at that last pile as the first place to cut weight.

The second concept that helped me the most is multi-use gear. I used to carry a digital camera and a phone. Then I got a new phone that takes better pictures than my old camera. With this concept you end up carrying fewer items, so your stuff is easier to find and keep organized. Your pack is lighter and your life is simpler.

A third concept you'll hear about a lot here is HYOH, or Hike Your Own Hike. My gear list addresses my needs for a particular location and time. Your needs for a different time and place could be vastly different. There's no way around the experience requirement here. You have to get out there and have successes and failures to learn.

A concept that challenges me all the time has to do with developing skills. Like a lot of folks here, I love shiny new gear. I bought some fancy metal line-lock doodads for my shelter guylines. They worked great until I lost two of them in the pine needles. On my next trip I left the line locks at home. I didn't need them anymore because I had visited YouTube and learned some basic knots and hitches.
The weightless knowledge replaced ounces of metal.

I'm sure others can chime in with their favorite tips. I'll go ahead and give you a quick list of some of my favorite gear:

Sierra Designs Flashlight 2 tent. It's perfect for ME, and I can leave two of the tent poles behind if I'm walking with trekking poles.

Osprey Atmos 50 AG backpack. It fits ME great and carries weight pretty well. I stuff the removable lid pockets with my rain gear for use as a pillow.

REI Halo down sleeping bag. Not the warmest bag, but I can bring a down jacket if I expect cold nights and I can use it like a quilt on warmer nights.

Alcohol stove made from a cat-food can. Hella light, nearly indestructible, no moving parts.

I hope this helps you. I can't wait to read what everyone else has to say.!

Instead of Big 4….its generally Big 3 (shelter, backpack, sleeping bag). The 4th could be any # of things (pad, stove/pot, ?). I don't think there's a clear consensus on what the 4th is/should be. (I would say stove/pot…that is my opinion).

Anyway, after trying out a bunch of gear, and since you said you were looking at high end gear (money no option), here is my recommendations:

Shelter
1-2 people – Zpacks Duplex

2+-4 people – MLD (mountain laurel designs) Cuben Supermid with innernet

Backpack
I currently have the Zpacks Arc Haul and enjoy it

Sleeping bag
Enlightened Equipment Revelation…and if money no option, I suppose in 900 fill power, but I would encourage anyone to just get the 800 fill verison. If money no concern, a katabatic quilt would be nice, though I haven't tried one out in person though. They do use a slightly heavier fabric so the EE quilts do win the weight war.

Big 4th ->
For stove…still experimenting here (and probably always will). Currently settled on a 1.3L evernew pot with trail designs sidewinder ti-tri cone if going with 1-2 people. 2+ people I take a jetboil sol…though I'm waiting for my new brs-3000t to pair it with and play around with (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=103030)

For pad – settled on an exped synmat hyperlite…though I liked the synmat UL 7 before it (more comfortable but more weight)

then…..just get started by reading mike clelland's ultralight backpackin' tips. Lot of good info, but don't take it as gospel…you don't have to use a tarp/bivy combo, or use a mesh orange bag for stuff sacks, etc. Its a great book to read (fun to read) and gets you in the Ultralight mindset.

…and if *time* is of no concern either. Some of the best cottage gear makers are pretty backed up right now.

short list of my favorites:

Enlightened Equipement (quilts)
ULA (packs)
TrailDesign's Caldera Cone (stove)
Warbonnet Hammocks

on the ground I like a NeoAir. Personally, I'm a horizontal baffle person. Others are vertical baffle people.

What part of the country are you in?

Solo? With your daughter?

Lots and lots of shelter options. If I had the money right now I'd get a Mountain Laurel Designs Cuben Fiber Super Tarp.

"I certainly don't have an unlimited budget, but I would love to learn about some of the high end equipment out there that I could potentially collect up over time."

I'd like to see people's thoughts on putting together fairly lightweight set of gear from retail establishments, but on somewhat of a shoestring budget. Affordable lightweight gear to get somebody on the trail right away, rather than a dream kit that they might not be able to cobble together for a year or three. There is probably a few threads already on here already doing this, but it's a new day. =)

But I can see how a stove could be a 4th too!

Thank you all so much for the comments so far. Lots of food for thought while I explore this new world. I am in the SF Bay Area and tomorrow I am headed out for a couple of nights of camping in the Santa Cruz mountains with my daughter's 6th grade class. The teachers are very experienced outdoors people, I'm looking forward to learning from them.

Thus far I have a BA 15 mummy style sleeping bag, I'd have to look up the model name. I picked up an Osprey Ace 50 after returning a Gregory Deva. It's just sits much better on me though not as light as I would like it. It packs a ton of stuff. I have been sleeping in my backyard the last few nights in my BA flycreek ul2. I really like the freestanding design, the double wall and the weight, but I would like some more space in the tent. I tend to spread out my stuff and sprawl. I have not yet found a good sleeping pad. I have an older REI 2.5 inch thick 3 lb heavy sleeping pad, it's really comfy but I do not want to carry it around. I tried a few other lighter ones from REI, but no dice. All I know is I want something self inflating if I go that route and with horizontal baffles. They were all out of the z-litres so couldn't try out that style.

I am really enjoying hanging out here, some of the engineering that goes into this gear is fascinating.

Oh and I have a Jetboil Flash. For now. Must have my morning coffee ASAP!

Big 3 or 4, Good Grief!

If I pick the items off my gear list in order of heaviest weight, I get this:
1. Camera
2. Bear canister
— Those are the only two that are more than one pound each.
3. Sleeping bag
4. Backpack
5. Shelter
6. Extra clothing

The cook pot would be 20th or so and stove would be about 25th or so.

–B.G.–

Thus far I have a BA 15 mummy style sleeping bag, I'd have to look up the model name….

If you got this stuff from REI, you could make some returns and drop a few pounds right away. Sleeping bag, likely can exchange for something with down of the 30-ish degree style bag that would be a pound lighter. As this time of year and colder, I've fallen asleep in the Santa Cruz mountains wearing the clothes on my back… so a sleeping bag is more to feel cozy than it is survival.

Sleeping pad, I'd consider a sacrifice of some comfort for dumping 2 pounds off your back. It's not self inflating, but give something like the NeoAir Xlite a couple nights try, hard to beat the weight and plenty comfortable.

The Flycreek and Jetboil will work, but something you can look at down the line for weight savings.

Where a lot of your weight is going to come from, is from stuff that you could of lived without. Like a camping trowel, when they have pit toilets. Rain gear when the weather shows no sign of rain in the area. Three ounces of sunscreen when it's in the forest and overcast. Backup batteries for a flashlight, when you're only going to be out for a night or two. Big first aid kit, when everybody will be bringing one and you could probably get away with some blister bandages and aspirin. Anything bigger than the tiniest Swiss army knife is usually overkill. Personal hygiene kit, when a toothbrush could be considered overkill. A camp towel, when you have absolutely no expectation of swimming. A change of clothes. Way too much food. It is all those little things adding up that push a backpack from being a comfortable weight, to being a burden.

By the way, raccoons in Santa Cruz mountains can be pretty determined for food. End up getting a better night's sleep, if you bring some cordage and hang a food bag. If you try to protect it in your tent, you'll typically end up beating at the sides of your tent to keep them away.

NM

WM Bags
Katabatic Quilts

ZPacks Tents
MLD Mids or Tarps

McHale Packs

Thermarest Neoair Pads

Not about specific brands but should be even more helpful to you in carrying less weight, carrying less does not always mean more expensive.
General info for you to look at if you haven’t already
Mike Clelland(NOLs instructor and author, his books are very good),he has some great free videos on lightening up be sure to watch(his clothing system,the entire contents of his pack,water treatment and part 1 and 2 on the dinky stuff for ideas),this is an article he wrote The fastest way to backpack weight loss ,this is pmags Lightweight Backpacking 101 and The Frugal Backpacker – The $300 Gear Challenge .These are some other articles and videos for you to check out

Backpacking for Cheap: Gear for the Gearless

Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): 3-Season, 3-Day

Lightweight Backpacking 101: An Introductory Manual for Lightening Your Load Today (1st Edition – August 2001)

Cheap Ultralight Gear List

Oregon Field Guide: Ultralight Hiking

Lightweight Testimony: Lighter, Farther, Faster
Jamie Shortt talks about his progression and shows his gear list for each stage, Lightweight Testimony: My Journey into Lightweight Backpacking
CleverHiker Light weight Basics
CleverHiker Trail Skills

Andrew Skurka has a very good website with trips and gear lists for you to check out, here is a talk he gave at google
Ultimate Hiking Gear & Skills Clinic
His book is worth checking out also
The Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide: Tools & Techniques to Hit the Trail
You can get little repackaging containers(like the ones you see in Mike Clelland uses in his videos) many places including your local stores and pharmacy but here are some examples
USPLASTICS
USPLASTICS
Ultralight Designs
GossamerGear
MountainLaurelDesigns
You could make toothpaste dots like Mike C. shows or there are Archtek Toothpaste Tablets so only bring exactly what you need in a snack size bag for any given trip instead of a whole tube and THESE are good for little thing like pills, toothpaste tablets ect. so you are not packing a whole bottle(you can also get them very cheap at most pharmacies) .

Packs: katabatic helios. AWESOME

Shelter: MLD duomid/solomid XL with solo inner, zpacks solplex/duplex/hexamid

Bag: EE, WM, katabatic

Pad: exped. they rock.

kitchen: caldera cone with starlyte, .6L or .9L size

Charity: paypal JENMITOL at MAC dot COM

It is more than just money, it is what is your backpacking style?

For solo hiking with less than 5-6 days of food carrying, I have my kit:

GG Kumo
Generic foam pad
No Sniveller Quilt
8×10 tarp (the old silnylon warhorse is getting beat up, soon to get a CF tarp I suspect)

It is not the most expensive, but it works well for me and my style. If I had more money, I would NOT upgrade the pad for example. I happen to prefer a foam pad vs an inflatable for three season backpacking and have no desire to buy something more expensive. I can afford an inflatable..just don't care for them.

I also have in my quiver different packs, shelters and even stoves depending on what trip I am doing, when, where and even with who (with the wife? guiding? with my buddy and his kids?) My $60+ Simmerlite is better for winter than my nearly free cat food can stove. But maybe I'd go the other way if solo in a wet and cold New England fall.

So, a very broad question. I am not being snarky, but there are so many variables.

Great shop. You can see a lot of the stuff everyone's talking about in person.

http://www.downworks.com/downworks/Welcome.html

Before you spend the big bucks, spend time figuring out the types of trips you plan to do. If you're going on short trips, you won't need a big pack. If you're going in the Sierras and plan on going a week between restocks, you might want a bigger pack to hold a bear canister.

That said, I have a 30 degree Montbell Super Spiral sleeping bag (very comfortable if you're an active sleeper), a ULA Catalyst pack that has a bigger volume than I really need (but I love the pack), and various tarps and tents I use depending upon conditions and who I'm bringing. I'm also a Neo Air pad user.

+1 – the owners of Down Works are backpackers and they stock ultralight stoves (Caldera Cones included), pads and plenty of down gear you will never ever find at REI. There is a pile of pads to pull out and try on the floor. I have taken newbies hiking in the Santa Cruz area every spring and that store is the post-trip visit – they know me now…. I have spent money there without regrets and will do so again.

Helps to think of items as multipurpose, but it does have limitations.

Like using your water bottle as a pot is multipurpose, but a tall and narrow pot wastes more fuel causing one to carry more fuel with them. So one is better of getting a wider pot (eg. Evernew EA252) and a soft bottle even though the combined is heavier than using say a Vargo BOT just simply because of the fuel conservation alone.

Think of your pack as a kit:

Gear Versatility: Kit Mentality vs. Item Mentality

There are many multipurpose items which end up being heavier than several single-purpose items.

But the only way to actually notice the difference is doing a spreadsheet tallying up the weight and writing down notes what each item’s purpose is for.

Wow there is a wealth of knowledge in this thread. I learned some things to be sure.

Sparing no expense, i might go with a PHD Mountain Software bag. Shleter would be zpacks, pack would be a custom Zimmerbuilt, pad would be an exped, and cook setup would be a vargo alcohol stove with a ridgeline pot from zelph, or a vargo BOT. The hard part for me has been constructing a shelter/sleep system that work together well. Bugs, humidity, ground conditions, night temp….and versatility if you travel, all come into play. Make a list of exactly what you want, then ask this community for advice, thats a good start. There is a wide variety of gear available for purchase, but its amazingly difficult to dial in a complete kit. And who knows, you might have more fun with a walmart sleeping bag and a 10 dollar tarp.

So, yes, myriad responses, indeed. It has taken years to find whats ideal for me. And much of my kit is custom or MYOG. My advice: try something, anything, and let that be the litmus paper by which you decide what perfection entails. Making a nice kit can be half the fun, but when it comes down to it, perfection is impossible, and the lack of perfection makes for good stories. In my experience, simply live outdoors as much as possible and the focus becomes more about needs than wants, and gear choices become very clear.

My backpacking mantra: "It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove." -Antoine de Saint Exupéry

>"+1 – the owners of Down Works are backpackers and they stock ultralight stoves (Caldera Cones included), pads and plenty of down gear you will never ever find at REI."

+2 on heading into Down Works, I try to get in there anytime I'm near Santa Cruz… he's usually up on all the latest gear and has it in stock. His sleeping bag selection is fantastic and he makes you get in several and zip up to make sure it is a good fit. Nice pack selection, even has ULA.

He can seem a little cold at first to new people, as I think he gets some sidewalk traffic that isn't actually interested in buying a $400 dollar sleeping bag. Once you tell him what you're trying to find or get outfitted for, he warms up.

My favorites:

Bag/Quilts
Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, Katabatic, EE

Pads
Neoair xlite or xtherm or Exped Syn UL or Down UL

Packs
Katabatic, ULA, MLD, SMD

Tent/Shelter
Tarptent, Big Sky, MLD, SMD, Z Packs,

What works for me may not work for you and as you become more experienced you will have stronger opinions on the subject. We all defend our gear choices based on a number of criteria, but in the end there is more than one means to and end. After hoarding gear for years I have been on the quest to reduce gear to a minimum but couldn't quite pull off just one of each for some categories.

Well, you have a lot of suggestions and a lot to think about.
So, I won't do that, giving you more choices.

1) Think durability. Any good manufacturer can produce a light tent for less than two pounds for 2 people. But, will it hold up in heavy winds? Will it continue to work after a week of solid rain? Will it stand up to rough ground? And rough use? Here at BPL we get worried about weight. Sometimes it is worth an extra 4oz to buy something to get a higher performance fabric. One that will hold up after three or four 60night seasons of use. A lot of SUL or UL gear won't. Look for stuff that is light and has been around for a few years. The stuff you *don't* see on Gear Swap.

2) Think ease of use. Most packs are top loaders. That means you have to dig through them to find what you are looking for. It takes a certain amount of packing skill to know what to put in the bottom, what to put on top, what to keep in side pouches, and, where to keep water treatment items. And, to keep the load balanced in your pack. Panel loader packs are easier to get into, but leave you open to zipper failures, or, sloppy packing because it is easy. Some tents go up in about two minutes. A tarp will likely take you longer. Can you stand out in heavy weather while you do this?

3) Think rugged when you go out hiking. This is not the place for a delicate pair of finger nail scissors. My brother dropped a load of wood on my stove, one time. A bear line that is too thin cannot double as an emergency haul line for your pack over a cliff. And a too thin line will cut your hands and into the tree limb. Ultra light means knowing when you are beyond the limits of your piece of gear. A somewhat heavier piece of gear might give you a lot better safety margin. It takes a bit of experience to know when enough is enough. So you pack a little heavier than needed? You are safe with what you do pack.

4) To survive most anything out in the woods, you must have adequate shelter, heat, water, and will. Shelter from wind, rain, snow, fog, mist and whatever else comes your way. Heat usually means dry clothing, rain gear, and plenty of layers…a fire is nice too, but not necessary. Water you must have. Know the four methodes of making pure drinking water and use them. You don't need to be sick in the woods. In a pinch, you can drink most water and go several weeks without food but this is *in a pinch.* And, you need the will to keep on going. The pain of a sprained ankle can be bad, but you cannot stop, for example. You cannot give up, you cannot sit down and wait for help. Self rescue is a given, even if it pains you, or, your partner to see the other hurting with every step. It takes a lot of will power from both to make this happen. Your will to get somewhere MUST be up to the task, as well as your gear. It makes no sense to hike three quarters of the way to a spot, only to turn back because you decided it was a lot of work…backpacking is always work. Others have done it, so can you. Start slow, work up to longer hikes.

This is a good thread. It would be nice if BPL's forum had stickies… maybe one a list of links to resources offsite (books, blogs, video tutorials, etc) and the other a list of cottage gear manufacturers/UL retailers. It would serve as a good intro and maybe eliminate some of the redundant "I'm new, what should I buy?" type questions.

Kate, I think that it would require too much moderation to administer those.

–B.G.–

I would love to see the evolution of this thread over the course of a decade and longer–as long as it kept on topic. At any given point there will normally be several specific items and companies that are mentioned by multiple people. To see what products and designers continue to hold sway would be interesting.

For example, Western Mountaineering would have been higly mentioned 10 years back (and longer) and continues to be so today.

This is what I bought when I transitioned to UL, and I don't hesitate recommending this to anyone (I've bought other gear since then but this stuff is still great):

ULA Ohm 2.0 – Priced reasonably, durable, great customer service, great weight transfer to the hips, love love love the spacious side pockets. Assuming you don't have to use a bear canister (or specialty gear like 15 lbs of camera gear), I'm of the opinion that if you find that you are indeed committed to going UL, and can't fit your gear into this pack for three season backpacking, you're doing something wrong and need to post your gear list. I've also found that this pack does a great job carrying extra small loads as well and have used it as a day pack, although there are better options out there in that category.

Zpacks Hexamid Twin et al – For what you're getting, I think the price is very fair. It's a single wall tent so you may have to contend with condensation from time to time but it's manageable. If you really want to go UL and save some money, get a tarp and spend an hour in your yard practicing various pitches. I have the MLD Grace solo, which is a catenary cut tarp. Since I prefer an A frame pitch, this has been a great tarp for me. If you think you'd like to try an assortment of pitches and would like a more flexible design, then go with an 8×10/11 like what Paul suggested. Even if you think you may spend much of your time backpacking solo in this tent, consider getting a two person shelter as I find I enjoy the extra space at a very tiny weight penalty over a single person shelter.

Montbell UL Super Spiral #3 – I won't say this is the best sleeping bag out there but it's the best sleeping bag for me since I'm a large guy. Of the gear you'll invest your money in, I strongly suggest buying the absolute best quality sleeping bag you can afford. That's not to say you can't find good deals out there as I picked up my sleeping bag off of geartrade.com for about $250 or so. I've tried quilts and found that they weren't for me but ymmv.

Thermarest Pro Lite 3/4 – I've had a lifelong love affair with TAR self inflating pads. In my opinion, the current generation of prolite pads are the best they've ever made in the self inflating department and are a near perfect compromise of comfort and durability. I have a few other pads available to me, including the Synmat UL, but I take my TAR Pro Lite with me on 99% of my trips when I think I'll be sleeping on something other than concrete or a wood platform. I throw my hiking clothes into a bag and throw them under my feet to insulate them from the ground. As far as TAR self inflating pads go, I'll caution you to stay away from the TAR Evo as it was a huge disappointment for me.

Cook Kit – There are a lot of good options out there. If you're just getting started, you'll need to figure out your cooking style. It's makes a huge difference if you're going to cook in pot vs freezer bag cooking. In pot, I wouldn't go much smaller than a 900ml pot and possibly as large as a 1300ml pot. For freezer bag cooking (what I do), anything from 500ml to 900ml will be fine, but again, technique and cooking style will play into this. Are you going to have a hot breakfast and heat coffee at the same time but don't want to heat water twice? 900ml is probably a safe bet. Want to go crazy and cut as much weight as possible? Get a 450ml mug, stick with meals that don't require more than a single cup of hot water, and you'll find yourself with a cook kit that's well under 8 oz (including untensils), and perhaps closer to 3oz. Zelph Stoves, Flat Cat Gear, and Trail Designs are a good place to start shopping.

Last piece of advice (I hope this won't sound like preaching), when it comes to your money, never put yourself in a position where you can't go backpacking because you've spent your gas money on gear. It's better to carry a 30lb backpack than to sit at home looking at a $700 shelter. If you're on a budget, we can collectively help you get into a 25lb total weight backpack filled with all the gear you need to have fun in the wild for less than $300. Some of it may not end up being your forever gear but it's more than sufficient to get you out in the woods having fun. Keep and eye on BPL's gear swap as that's a great way to buy quality gear at a discount. We do a relatively good job of self policing that forum.