Gear List — Grand Canyon May 2015

[Bob Gross]

"Bob, I will argue that it was your bad-ass-ness that got you through that half mile."

Gee, I don't know whether to take that as an insult or a compliment.

So, even though a 6-inch Ace wrap is not perfect, it is a lot better than nothing. As you shrink down to the 1.5-inch Ace, it isn't much more than nothing. A fitted elastic knee support is nice, too, but it will likely fit only one set of knees. For a hiker group, better tools would be useful.

–B.G.–

[Dan Yeruski]

Jennifer, that made his day :-)))

[Bean]

"However, a wide Ace wrap might possibly be the temporary tool to get you by."

What would your thoughts be on something like Leukotape as a temporary tool instead?

[Bob Gross]

I think that Leukotape works good on foot skin or any skin for that matter. However, it can't bind up a big wobbly joint like a 6" Ace wrap can.

A narrow Ace wrap works good for a wobbly ankle. You just have to decide where your potential risks are and how much you want to carry.

–B.G.–

[Hikin’ Jim]

> Now that we know what's in the FAK and eKit, what are in these?
– Sundries (patch kit, chapstick, meds, etc.) 9.6 oz
– Pouch (sunscreen, bug juice, lighter, etc.) 6.7 oz

Good question. I have to admit I've never broken it out in detail; I've just made a general effort to "keep it light." I'll put the list below my signature, way below. Why so far down? Because that's how BPL's forum software works. Sigh.

First thing that strikes me is how heavy a 55 gallon drum liner is, almost 3 oz. Yipes. But it is handy for when I cache my gear when I'm doing a side trip. It's water proof, and it's black color makes it easier to hide such that passer-by won't see it and mess with it. It was not used on this last trip, so that will be put into the "bring only if needed category".

The micro torch, while wonderfully convenient, particularly with ESBIT, is on the heavy side, and I typically use alcohol. I won't be bringing it on future trips. Those are my initial thoughts; insightful feedback welcome, of which I've already received a great deal which I truly appreciate.

On another note, I'll refrain from joining the Ace Bandage wars, but I probably won't be bringing an Ace Bandage any longer. Kinda heavy, and it sounds like it's utility is questionable. It's been years since I've used one. I'll have to try to make do with duct tape and improvisation.

Scroll WAAAAY down for gear list.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

Miscellaneous detail	Oz	Totals
55 gallon drum liner (for gear caching)	2.9
Fire steel	0.8
Tenacious tape	0.7
Super glue	0.5
Duct tape	0.5
Chapstick	0.3
Subtotal		5.7
Liquid soap, ~1 fl oz	1.5
Thermarest patch kit	1.5
Mesh bag	0.4
Subtotal		3.4
Torch type lighter	2.2
Sunscreen, ~1 fl oz.	1.6
DEET, ~1 fl oz	1.0
Gossamer Gear zipper pocket	0.8
Bits of cord (used as clothes pins)	0.5
Spare shoe lace	0.1
Subtotal		6.2
TP	1.5
Purell, ~1 fl oz	1.5
Sand/snow stake (as a trowel)	1.2
Gossamer Gear zipper pocket	0.8
Subtotal		5.0
Total, Ounces		20.3
Total, Pounds		1.3

[Jennifer Mitol]

""Bob, I will argue that it was your bad-ass-ness that got you through that half mile."

Gee, I don't know whether to take that as an insult or a compliment."

It was very much a compliment.

Now to Jim:
55 gallon drum liner. WHY?
Tenacious tape AND duct tape? can't you just pick one?
Torch-type lighter. WHY? that's a heavy heavy lighter.
Why are you bringing a half ounce of super glue? don't you just need a few dots if you need it?
Spare shoe lace AND bits of cord for clothes pins. really? c'mon….you don't need either, do you?
1.5 oz of TP. Are you feeling OK? go au naturel.
Sand/snow stakes. Doesn't QiWiz make a lighter trowel if you need to take one?

[Ken Thompson]

"But it is handy for when I cache my gear when I'm doing a side trip. It's water proof, and it's black color makes it easier to hide such that passer-by won't see it and mess with it."

Once you get all the other dead weight out of your pack you can just take your stuff with you.

Clothesline, thats cute. And not needed at all. Rocks and shrubbery are everywhere.

Flip flops! Are your shoes uncomfortable?

[George F]

I always carry some cord with me. It is there if I need to hang my food, and works fine for shoe laces. The reflective stuff is fun when you are night hiking. And once, in a campground with no rocks or shrubs, just trees and dirt, I even used it as a clothes line.

[Ken Thompson]

But you don't need cord, bits of cord and a spare shoe lace.

[Sumi Wada]

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you seem to have a LOT of fire-related stuff but, honestly, you don't need it all. I take one bic and have a few matches tucked in my FAK. For longer or more remote hikes, maybe a second bic tucked in my FAK.

Re the drum liner. I do side trips in the Canyon all the time and usually take a small DIY daypack (like a "summit pack") for that. 2.8oz with "real" shoulder straps, doubles as a waterproof stuff sack. I don't worry about the gear I leave behind; pretty much no one is interested in carrying stolen gear 10 miles and 5K elevation out. In the very rare case of rain, I use my shelter.

Soap is an no-no in the Canyon. You don't need DEET.

I would gather all of the tapes (duct, tenacious), glues (super glue, patch kits) and lines (shoe lace, "bits of cord", extra cord) and consolidate. I usually take long guylines in the Canyon because I can't use tent stakes in most of the places I camp, so that's enough extra cording for me. I've never encountered a camp without rocks in the GC. :)

If you eventually get off the corridor in the Canyon, you'll need to think a little more about water, e.g. be able to scoop, pre-filter, settle. It gets harder to plan an itinerary without dry camps, so getting the base weight down becomes more important; the water starts to weigh more than your gear.

[Bob Gross]

"It was very much a compliment."

I didn't know whether to smile or hit you over the head with a prosthetic leg.

–B.G.–

[Nick Gatel]

Jim,

If I can offer a suggestion…

Lay out all your gear. If you haven't used something in a year or more it may be a good candidate for retirement. Anything more than a few bandaids, a small amount of gauze and tape, antiseptic, and a few Advil (or similar) are about all we need for first aid. Also look at quantities of things like soap and DEET. Par those down into smaller containers. Scrutinize all pieces of gear and ask yourself, "Is this really necessary, or just nice to have?" At this point you probably need fewer Ziplocs and stuff sacks, given all the things you have now removed from your pack

Everyone has an opinion of what others should or should not carry. I find the above method works well for me.

-Nick

[Nick Smolinske]

In regards to the trowel . . . I just want to say that I have spent a couple hundred nights in the backcountry, and several hundred more at primitive car camping sites. I have never encountered terrain where I was unable to dig a 6-8" cathole without a trowel. Including 50+ nights all over the Grand Canyon.

If the ground is rocky, use a rock. If there are no rocks to be found, use your heel. If neither of the above works, just poop in the water because you're clearly in the ocean.

[Ken Thompson]

One thing to remember is that a CA. fire permit states that you are to have a shovel. You'll never know if you will run into a zealous ranger.

1. Clear all flammable material away from the fire's edge 5 feet in all directions to prevent escape of the fire.
2. Have a shovel available at the campfire site for preparing and extinguishing campfires.
3. Have a responsible person in attendance at all times.
4. Extinguish campfires with water, using the drown, stir, and feel method.

So if you plan on a campfire, bring your trowel at least.

Don't know about other states.

[Nick Gatel]

The San Jacinto and San Gorgonio Wilderness areas specifically require a "hand trowel for the burying of human waste." I have been checked many times for my wilderness permit, campfire permit, stove with a shut-off valve, and hand trowel. So I always carry one on every trip just in case it is a regulation in any area, plus it is easy to keep it in my pack and not forget it. My Ti trowel digs a nice hole, exactly the size I need. Not too big, not too small. It weighs less than a cell phone, or SPOT, or MP3 player, or a water filter, or a trekking pole, or a snow stake, or a PLB. If you want to save weight, leave those things at home.

[Link .]

Why ultralight hikers should carry potty trowels

[Hikin’ Jim]

55 gallon drum liner. WHY?

Well, for caching gear for side trips, but I agree that it's not necessary for a lot (most?) of my trips. Relegated to the "as needed" list.

Tenacious tape AND duct tape? can't you just pick one?

I'm kind of being cheap here. :) Tenacious tape is expensive. I use duct tape whenever I can and Tenacious tape only as needed. 1.2 oz total. Yeah, that's one to consider.
QUESTION: Does Tenacious Tape stick well to a sweaty human body?

Torch-type lighter. WHY? that's a heavy heavy lighter.

Agreed. Dropped.

Why are you bringing a half ounce of super glue? don't you just need a few dots if you need it?

This was the smallest size I could find. Are there smaller sizes?

Spare shoe lace AND bits of cord for clothes pins. really? c'mon….you don't need either, do you?

Well, my shoelace broke on this mornings hike, and I used the spare lace, so that's effectively dropped. :)
I'll think about the bits of cord. Kinda handy on windy days. But it is 1/2 ounce.

Sand/snow stakes. Doesn't QiWiz make a lighter trowel if you need to take one?

Maybe I'll check into QiWiz's trowel, but the sand/snow stake can be used as, well, a stake. My little Ti shepard's hook stakes pull out sometimes in soft ground, especially the one by the door. In such cases, I use the stake as a stake.

Anyway, all food for thought.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[Hikin’ Jim]

Clothesline, thats cute. And not needed at all. Rocks and shrubbery are everywhere.

Well, clothes pins actually. I use 'em to tie clothes to branches and stuff when it's windy. Probably not essential.

Flip flops! Are your shoes uncomfortable?

Um, yes, but the main reason I bring them is to air my feet out. I've had some terrible cases of athlete's foot. I does bug me that the suckers are 4.7 oz. Yipes. But athlete's foot is a royal pain in the posterior. I should probably spend some time looking into a good alternative which to be perfectly honest I have not. Sloth on my part. :)

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[Ken Thompson]

I have not had athletes foot since I switched to wearing wool socks exclusively. I certainly do not miss it.

[Hikin’ Jim]

Hi, Sumi,

Thank you for your detailed analysis and practical suggestions. I find it really helpful.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you seem to have a LOT of fire-related stuff but, honestly, you don't need it all. I take one bic and have a few matches tucked in my FAK. For longer or more remote hikes, maybe a second bic tucked in my FAK.

Yeah, maybe three types (lighter, matches, and fire steel) is overly redundant even for a "Mr. Cautious" like me. :) I've dropped the lighter for future trips like this one. I'll primarily use the fire steel, which works exceptionally well with alcohol stoves, with some matches in reserve.

Re the drum liner. I do side trips in the Canyon all the time and usually take a small DIY daypack (like a "summit pack") for that. 2.8oz with "real" shoulder straps, doubles as a waterproof stuff sack. I don't worry about the gear I leave behind; pretty much no one is interested in carrying stolen gear 10 miles and 5K elevation out. In the very rare case of rain, I use my shelter.

My primary back pack is fairly light (less than 2 lbs empty), so I often carry it on side trips. My main weight objective for this trip was to have the least amount of weight possible for the climb out of the canyon. I think I did OK (but not great) there. It made sense to me not to take a day pack at all.

2.8 oz! That's really exceptional. What type do you have? I sweat like crazy. Does your day pack have a back pad of any sort or is it just plain, unadorned cloth?

Soap is an no-no in the Canyon.

Oops. Well, I wound up not using it on this particular trip although I frequently do.

All I need is a few drops. My wife has a little bottle that I think contact lense solution came in, weight 5 grams. I think I'm going to put maybe 1/3 fl ounce in that container and use that for future trips (er, except for those in the Canyon).

You don't need DEET.

Agreed. Dropped (for future Canyon trips).

I would gather all of the tapes (duct, tenacious), glues (super glue, patch kits) and lines (shoe lace, "bits of cord", extra cord) and consolidate. I usually take long guylines in the Canyon because I can't use tent stakes in most of the places I camp, so that's enough extra cording for me. I've never encountered a camp without rocks in the GC. :)

Ah. Now that is a very practical suggestion. That is exactly what I shall do.

If you eventually get off the corridor in the Canyon, you'll need to think a little more about water, e.g. be able to scoop, pre-filter, settle. It gets harder to plan an itinerary without dry camps, so getting the base weight down becomes more important; the water starts to weigh more than your gear.

Yeah, definitely. I've done several desert trips in CA and AZ, and carrying 6 to 8 liters of water is no fun at all.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[Hikin’ Jim]

If I can offer a suggestion…

Lay out all your gear. If you haven't used something in a year or more it may be a good candidate for retirement. Anything more than a few bandaids, a small amount of gauze and tape, antiseptic, and a few Advil (or similar) are about all we need for first aid. Also look at quantities of things like soap and DEET. Par those down into smaller containers. Scrutinize all pieces of gear and ask yourself, "Is this really necessary, or just nice to have?" At this point you probably need fewer Ziplocs and stuff sacks, given all the things you have now removed from your pack

Ah! Very good. Thank you, Nick, a very practical idea.

On that basis, the Ace bandage, triangular bandage, and #2 gauze roller bandage should go. I could apply that to my PLB, but that is something that gives my wife a lot of comfort and helps me to get her blessing to go out on the trail. The PLB stays. I'll look through more stuff…

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[Hikin’ Jim]

Why ultralight hikers should carry potty trowels Thank you. Good link. And points well taken.

And (ahem) I notice that one of the recommended potty trowels that Snorkel recommends is a… snow and sand stake. I actually got the idea here on BPL some years ago. The multi-use angle is what really sold me even though, obviously, it's not the absolute lightest option. I'll have to consider the other options that Snorkel recommends and the QiWiz one.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[Hikin’ Jim]

I have not had athletes foot since I switched to wearing wool socks exclusively. I certainly do not miss it.

Ken! You're a genius. Now why didn't I think of that? Until last year I was suffering from terrible odor build in my synth boxers after a few days. Indeed, my trail name on my PCT section hike in 2013 was "skonk." A friend suggested that I try Merino wool boxers, and … problem solved.

I used Smartwool PhD socks on this last trip, to the Grand Canyon, and really liked the feel — and I got no athletes foot. I should have put two and two together. Now I have. Yeah, I'm a slow learner. What can I say? As with synth boxers, synth socks are now relegated to the day hike pile.

Still gonna take flip flops though. :)

Recalcitrantly yours,

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim's Blog

[David Thomas]

>". . . my PLB, but that is something that gives my wife a lot of comfort"

A PLB-shaped piece of styrofoam, carefully painted, would weigh less than an ounce. Or maybe an empty "display model"?

The wife has peace of mind, it's low cost, very low weight, and has no batteries hence no expiration date.

[Ken Thompson]

I'll call you "Baby Steps" ;)

[Author]

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