Help Me Lighten my Load

[Brian]

I'm recently trying to get back into, or maybe just into back packing after a decade hiatus. I completed my first "light weight" trip with new gear, but I'm sure I can get much lower. My base weight is now around 17 lbs compared to my old weight of 25+ lbs but I never worried about exact weights back then so I'm not sure.

Any suggestions, and thanks for your help.

http://lighterpack.com/r/cf424g

Ohh and before I get slammed, this is for 3 season hiking on the east coast. (mainly the AT)

[Kenneth Keating]

Repackage the hygiene items into 6cc Eye Droppers and 8cc squeeze tubes. You'd be surprised how long the smaller sizes last. As an example,a 6cc eye dropper with toothpaste weighs 0.375 Oz and lasts for 30 days, brushing twice a day.

[David Thomas]

Nice price on that "Marmot Kompressor Verve 42 Pack – 2014 Closeout" of $124, but at 42 ounces = 2.63 pounds, that item weight could be less than half as much with a UL frameless pack.

11 ounces on a 24-ounce SS tall (bad for stove efficiency) pot? Take that thing out back and put a bullet thru it.

For an ounce more, you could have a bigger, wider pot (better stove efficiency) with an integral heat exchanger (much better efficiency) AND a cozy:

http://www.rei.com/product/734584/jetboil-15-liter-cooking-pot#tab-specs

but unless you're melting snow, or cooking for 4-6 people over many nights, I'd suggest something a lot lighter. Lots of options in the 4-5 ounce range, but that's a whole other thread.

That Amazon Brand "Ultralight Backpacking Canister Camp Stove with Piezo Ignition 3.9oz (silvery Stove and orange box)" is cheap at $8, but is heavy at 3.9 ounces. Also cheap is a BRS-3000T at $11 from GearBest but it is tiny (really tiny when folded) and light at 0.88 ounces (corrected math after BG's post).

I'm a gulper, not a sipper, so I'd skip the platypus (3.5 ounces, $20) and use a 1.5 liter used Avian / Aquafina bottle (1.8 ounces and free at the recycling bin).

Unless you're bringing canned foods (?!?), replace that full-sized, 1.1 ounce SAK with a SAK Classic (21 grams, 3/4 ounce) and you'll be adding scissors and nail file.

9 ounces is a LOT of first aid kit. Sounds like a commercial one. I'd carefully choose a few pills of each of several drugs for the trip and the individuals along, 3-4 bandaids, a professional-sample size of antibiotic lotion and anti-fungal cream (8-10 grams each) and a foot each of leukotape and duct tape) wrapped around my water bottle. 3 ounces total. That plus the SAK classic and a bandana is it for me, plus knowledge and practice at making splints, etc from sleeping pads, pack components, etc.

+1 on repackaging toiletries into much smaller sizes. 60-70% of that weight could be eliminated.

I don't see a cotton bandana on your list. That is an emergency back-up sun hat, neck scarf, cooling headband, pot holder, arm sling, dish rag, wash clothe, and towel. And cutting off a piece of a PackTowel makes an even better towel / wetted neck/headband. Sometimes I bring a single cotton bandana. Other times, I bring a big silk bandana and a small piece of PackTowel.

[Bob Gross]

"BRS-3000T at $11 from GearBest but it is tiny (really tiny when folded) and light at 0.75 ounces."

David, is that accurate?

I thought that it was supposed to be 25 grams. Mine weighed in at 26 grams.

–B.G.–

[David Thomas]

Brain fart.

SAK classic at 21 grams is 0.75 grams. That stuck in my head.

BRS-3000T at 25 grams is actually 0.88 grams. My bad.

[Dave P]

What's your budget?

The biggest weight-saving will come from changing shelter, sleeping bag, mattress and backpack. But it's kind of difficult to recommend without knowing the budget.

Already I can see that the backpack can be cut into half, shelter by three-quarter, sleeping system to about a pound and cooking down to half a pound or less.

With the cooking set, I would simplify it down to somewhere about 500mL for a single person with dehydrated meals, or 900mL for all-purpose. The cooking set and the cup are kind of redundant; unless you are camping with other people, then there are probably lighter cups out there.

Like others have said, a wider pot is more fuel-efficient. To compare, the Evernew 900mL (252) is 5 oz. A 475mL mug would be around 1.3 to 1.5 oz. Just two examples. There are many pots out there and they are available in either Ti or Al.

Regarding the rest, they can use some repackaging into more usable containers appropriate to the length of the trip.

[Gary Dunckel]

$13.75

[David White]

It's still $10.99 and free shipping with coupon code BRS3000TCM. I bought one last Friday at that price.

[Brian]

First let me say, thank you for all the help for this newbie. I really appreciate it, this is a great site. A few comments on some of the suggestions.

David Thomas

"Repackage the hygiene items into 6cc Eye Droppers and 8cc squeeze tubes."
Great idea I repackaged into the small Nalagene bottles but never thought of this.

"Nice price on that "Marmot Kompressor Verve 42 Pack – 2014 Closeout" of $124, but at 42 ounces = 2.63 pounds"
When I bought it a month ago it was only $89, which was a bargain. I'm not ready to go frameless yet, but maybe after I cut all my other items weight down I'll think about it.

" Also cheap is a BRS-3000T at $11 from GearBest but it is tiny (really tiny when folded) and light at 0.75 ounces."
My set up now was cheap, under $30 all together and over 1 lb lighter than my old set up, but obviously there is still a lot of weight savings still to be had. That little stove looks great for the price. I could probably save 1/2 lbm here with a new ti pot and stove, and not cost me too much.

"I'm a gulper, not a sipper, so I'd skip the platypus (3.5 ounces, $20) and use a 1.5 liter used Avian / Aquafina bottle (1.8 ounces and free at the recycling bin)."
This is the first time I ever used a hydration bladder, wasn't sure if I'd like it or not, turns out I loved it. I'll probably be keeping this as is for now.

"9 ounces is a LOT of first aid kit."
I should go through this and pair down to something a little lighter duty. Could easily save 3 or 4 ounce for free.

"I don't see a cotton bandana on your list"
Thats because I don't have one, but sounds like I should get one. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Brian]

"The biggest weight-saving will come from changing shelter, sleeping bag, mattress and backpack. But it's kind of difficult to recommend without knowing the budget."
I just spent about $600 on all this gear, so I don't see changing it out just yet. I haven't seen any 2 man shelters for much under 2 lbs. I'd be open to a new pad and bag but only for different temperature ratings.

"The cooking set and the cup are kind of redundant; unless you are camping with other people, then there are probably lighter cups out there."
I can understand that, but one of the things that made me most happy on the trip was that extra cup. I could have my oatmeal in my pot and a hot cup of coffee together in the morning, or just drink water from a cup and not my hydration bladder or water bottle. I think a cup will stay in my pack even as a luxury item.

[Ken Thompson]

"I just spent about $600 on all this gear, so I don't see changing it out just yet." Stings don't it? Too bad you didn't find BPL first before getting out your wallet. You've got the gear, go out and have fun with it. You'll soon discover where you are willing to make cuts. Evaluate your gear after each trip and refine your load. Remember, it's hiking, not hauling.

What's the idea behind sleeping shorts and long johns?

I would just take soap, and use it. Leave the sanitizer at home.

Do you have a lighter or matches for when the piezo igniter fails?

What about navigation? Button compass at the absolute minimum.

What color dry bag for your food? I like something that blends in when hung. No need for visual advertising.

I'd love to see what is actually in the first aid/emergency kit.

[Dave P]

Well, that's why I asked about budget. :) But let's see what we can get for the price of a Big Agnes Scout…

The last thing anyone should buy is a backpack anyway. There is no point in buying an ultralight pack if everything else is heavy. I see it all the time on hunting forums: people buy an ultralight pack, then complain they break when they tried to stuff 50 lbs of food and gear into it.

So, I wouldn't really worry about getting a new pack until you get the entire thing down to about 10 to 12 lbs (with the current pack), then switching to a lighter pack will have more an advantage.

Hell, just to show that I am not some "ultralight" fundamentalist, I am ordering a Stone Glacier Solo in a few days (3.63 lbs at the bare minimum, 3.87 with the extras).

I understand in regard to two-person deal since we live in cougar country, so that mean taking the dog inside the tent. Doing that means the tent need to be two- or three-person.

Anyway, my girlfriend is going through the same thing as you are. Her old tent was a Fjallraven and two summers ago, it got moldy because we only got one hour of sunshine a day and never dried out during the four or six weeks we camped. She spent about $2 000 on it, and got rid of it a season later. We lived out of my old Asolo which had less surface area.

I have been thinking about getting a Tarptent Squall 2 (34 oz, which is 2 oz more than the Scout) for my girlfriend if she doesn't like my pyramid tent. A two-person tent with bath thub floor is important to her, and she probably only need the Notch (26 oz), but she has dogs so room is important. They are a bit "heavy," but still an upgrade from the Fjallraven.

I could buy her ZPack Hexmid Twin (18 oz, $530 USD) but if she knew what I spent on one, someone would be promptly dumped. Much rather keep our relationshp intact at least until I can cinvince her cuben are like diamonds.

But last winter, I ordered a Locus Gear Khufu (exchange rate at the time was better for me than ordering from the States), and we will be testing it this summer. Will have to order an innermesh too for her comfort. She is still uncertain about going floorless.

But if we succeed in the summer with a pyramid tent, then I probably would buy her Mountain Laurel Design Duomid (12 oz) or Locus Gear Hapi (17 oz) with a floored innermesh (10 – 16 oz). She's quite not ready to jump into the world of floorless just yet. Keep in mind, these data are for silnylon which are affordable; not cuben which is half the weight, but four times as expensive.

The biggest reason for me to go with tents this light is backpack hunting where I can't really compromise any further with a 5.75 lbs shotgun without calling ethics (smaller gauges) into question. The second reason is because the last few years, we had constant rain, and a tent with less surface area dries off mroe quickly.

There are lighter ones out there on the market, but it's venturing in the territory of using tarps and not everyone is comfortable with that.

As far as sleeping bags go, she's interested in a quilt, but is having a hard time justifying letting go of her Marmot considering how expensive it was. Nevermind that bag is too warm for her. So, I probably will gift that too someday after she tries mine.

You don't have to buy these, but it's just kind of humorous someone dear to me is in the same boat as you are.

[Brian]

No dogs for me, but occasionally my young son for shorter trips. If I can only own 1 tent it will be as close to a traditional 2 man tent as I can get. My last trip I did go with a buddy as well and we shared the Scout, there was plenty of room for 2 full sized men so it worked out well. However, if I do take a longer solo trip, that might be an excuse to get 1 man version of some of the options you mentioned above.

"But if we succeed in the summer with a pyramid tent, then I probably would buy her Mountain Laurel Design Duomid (12 oz) or Locus Gear Hapi (17 oz) with a floored innermesh (10 – 16 oz). She's quite not ready to jump into the world of floorless just yet. Keep in mind, these data are for silnylon which are affordable; not cuben which is half the weight, but four times as expensive."

These really aren't any lighter, once you add the bug netting/floor, as well as the stakes you are back up to the weight of the BA Scout.

[Link .]

General info for you to look at if you haven't already
Mike Clelland(NOLs instructor and author, his books are very good),he has some great free videos on lightening up be sure to watch(his clothing system,the entire contents of his pack,water treatment and part 1 and 2 on the dinky stuff for ideas),this is an article he wrote The fastest way to backpack weight loss ,this is pmags Lightweight Backpacking 101 and The Frugal Backpacker – The $300 Gear Challenge .These are some other articles and videos for you to check out

Backpacking for Cheap: Gear for the Gearless

Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): 3-Season, 3-Day

Lightweight Backpacking 101: An Introductory Manual for Lightening Your Load Today (1st Edition – August 2001)

Cheap Ultralight Gear List

Oregon Field Guide: Ultralight Hiking

Lightweight Testimony: Lighter, Farther, Faster
Jamie Shortt talks about his progression and shows his gear list for each stage, Lightweight Testimony: My Journey into Lightweight Backpacking
CleverHiker Light weight Basics
CleverHiker Trail Skills

Andrew Skurka has a very good website with trips and gear lists for you to check out, here is a talk he gave at google
Ultimate Hiking Gear & Skills Clinic
His book is worth checking out also
The Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide: Tools & Techniques to Hit the Trail
You can get little repackaging containers(like the ones you see in Mike Clelland uses in his videos) many places including your local stores and pharmacy but here are some examples
USPLASTICS
USPLASTICS
Ultralight Designs
GossamerGear
MountainLaurelDesigns
You could make toothpaste dots like Mike C. shows or there are Archtek Toothpaste Tablets so only bring exactly what you need in a snack size bag for any given trip instead of a whole tube and THESE are good for little thing like pills, toothpaste tablets ect. so you are not packing a whole bottle(you can also get them very cheap at most pharmacies) .

[Greg Mihalik]

Amazing Compilation!

Thanks for doing this.

[David Thomas]

>"Do you have a lighter or matches for when the piezo igniter fails?"

Good point, Ken, something I considered when I saw the piezo lighter on the stove. Yes, he does list a lighter in kitchen supplies, but at 1 ounce (28 grams). A mini Bic weighs 11 grams when full. I grind / plier off the child-safety guard at home to make it easier to use with gloved or cold hands. And it saves 0.013 grams!

>"I'd love to see what is actually in the first aid/emergency kit."

If the OP wants to post a pic, we'd all dogpile on his choices. That's what we do.

[Dave P]

All of my Plezio failed. I don't even include them anymore. Rather use a firesteel over a plezio.

[Dave P]

Well, yes, a Duomid with an innernet (23 – 24 oz) will be almost the same weight as a BA Scout which has been stripped down to 25 oz (from 32 oz). The alternative without the innernet but with a floor is window shrink (1.6 oz), which would bring the pyramid tent up to 14 oz if one doesn't want the mosquito netting but still desiring a floor.

With The North Face Furnace Sleeping Bag at $179. Well, the only reason why it's 2 lbs is because of the down. Unfortunately 800- or 900-fill down are expensive, and cost climbed in the last few years due to people's demand of high-quality lightweight parkas and sleeping bags.

But you can buy Enlightened Equipment's quilt (17 oz):

http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/revelation/

They are about $235 USD. Expensive because they are home-made in America. If they are made in a factory located in China or Vietnam like many of North Face's products, they would be a lot lower.

I have winter-camped in their 30F quilt down to 14F with a 3/4 Thermarest SOLite ($30 CAD, 10 oz) without any draft issues. To go even lower, I probably would need an air mattress. I actually find the SOLIte to be more comfortable than some of the air mattresses on the market.

But not everyone like closed foam. So it's understandable why someone would want air mattress. There are ones out there that are about 12 oz though.

[Dave P]

But before dropping the big bucks on the big four, I would focus on your cooking set. For about 6 oz, you can have a nice mug and a fairly big pot.

You can even use a cat-can stove (free) and a contact lens bottle (free) for a few days trip, and switch over to a BRS-300T ($12) for longer trips.

Tutorial on cat-can stove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pajkt594Ruw

Those alone can probably bring your base weight down to about 15 lbs with either options.

[Brian]

Well I have it listed as first aid/emergency kit. Imagine fitting as much junk as you can into an empty peanut butter jar and then wrapping it with ~10ft of duct tape for later use.

Bandaids, gauze, mole skin, butterfly closures, dental floss, mini medical tape, mini glow stick, antibiotic cream, advil, Peptobismil (sp) tablets, water purification tablets,….I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff.

[Link .]

The cat can stove tutorial video is also on the Mike Clelland free video link I posted above.

[Kenneth Keating]

Looks like you have quite a few items for first aid, plus the PB jar. Repackage, use smaller quantities and replace the jar with a ziplock bag.

[Russ Maynard]

Hay wear do you get the squeeze tubes. i already use dropper bottles.

[Kenneth Keating]

Search Ebay with the following words: empty cosmetic lip gloss

[Dave P]

Just noticed that your trekking poles are considered as packed weight.

A lot of backpackers consider it as "worn" weight. So, it's closer to 15.76 lbs. Never really understood why, but it always confused me why my pack was a little heavier than everyone else's until I read a discourse about how backpackers don't include it in their base-weight, and noticed the same thing in the gear-lists. Peronsally, I think it's a form of cheating, but that's just me.

Should trekking poles count as part of your base weight? A fascinating subject that absolutely no-one cares about

Beside the items, you will see a shirt, fork/knife and a star. Click on the shirt to count it as worn weight.

To be honest, sometimes I wish LighterPack has a category for:

"Things Canadians have to carry that the lower 48 don't have to worry about."

Bear-sprays and wire-cutters would fit in there.

[Author]

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