https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JhqyxoI9Vo&feature=youtu.be
The felt insulator/pot grabber ring is attached by a 100% coverage of high temp adhesive backing.
The pot is a 2.5 cup capacity Ridgeline Foster’s can. I use the pot with a regular windscreen and a cone type pot support.
Would this stove be considered good enough for use during fire bans out west? Would the shut of mechanism be considered a valve of sorts?
In a thread, Eric Lundquist linked us to a page at trail Designs that showed a Evernew 400ml Sidewinder Bundle that had a modified Gram Cracker that sat flat on the ground. Has anyone used that bundle from TD?
http://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/evernew-400ml-cup-sidewinder-ti-tri-bundle
This is the Modified Gram Cracker furnished with the 400ml bundle:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=93249
Re: update on alky stoves on the JMT on 07/14/2014 20:32:33 MDT
Bob Gross
(–B.G.–) – F
Locale: Silicon Valley
Maybe I can help a little. In addition to the clarifications that I reported here a month ago, I have more.
On July 9th, I stopped at the Inyo National Forest office in Bishop to pick up a reserved permit. Once I had that, I asked them for some clarifications about the fire policy. They always start with “there are no campfires allowed.” Yes, we all have that understood. Inyo and the national parks there currently allow just about any kind of backpacker stove, be that butane, alcohol, white gas, or Esbit. That much is due to the fire status in Inyo and those national parks.
I asked about the phrase “as long as it has an on/off control.” That currently only pertains to Sierra National Forest. Apparently it has a tighter restriction status now due to the drought of course. Any of these jurisdictions can change their status as the summer goes along. However, currently the only place for the “on/off control” is Sierra. So, for most of the JMT, you are good with just about anything. As soon as you pass into Sierra, then it tightens up to the on/off control stove. To me, that means white gas or butane is allowed, but it prohibits Esbit or a normal simple alcohol burner.
–B.G.—
“The head guy should know the rules and regulations.”
Dan, this is only partially true.
The NP Superintendent is going to know the rules for his own park, but he won’t be able to speak much about other parks and national forests. Sometimes they know more than they’ll say, and sometimes they say more than they really know. Very often, the superintendent is more of a politician, and he will just refer the question to the person who handles public inquiries. Unfortunately, that person may be a junior staffer, so they may not know all of the terminology.
At the last time that we discussed this matter here, the John Muir Trail covers parts of Sequoia, Kings Canyon, and Yosemite, plus parts of Inyo and Sierra national forests. That’s why I sent out inquiries to all five and reported the responses here.
–B.G.–
Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) – M
“At the last time that we discussed this matter here, the John Muir Trail covers parts of Sequoia, Kings Canyon, and Yosemite, plus parts of Inyo and Sierra national forests. “
Thanks so much for all your help on this, Bob.
Based on what you found out in your previous inquiries and what I’ve been reading on the Yahoo JMT group – that information was at such odds I thought I’d inquire again.
I do think the chief problem is in terminology, and the powers that be continue to trot out outdated and irrelevant terminology (jellied petroleum? an alcohol stove like the whisperlite???!!!) that allows this to persist year after year.
I really thought there’d be some clarification this year – so far it seems like everyone but Sierra NF has updated their comments and it seems cool to use a starlyte. As Dan says, it’s a pretty darned safe stove I would think, especially when paired with a caldera cone.
I’m still on the fence about my canister vs starlyte set up. It doesn’t really matter, I guess. But all the threads I’ve seen on the olicamp/firemaple Ion/Hornet and Kinetic/Gnat stoves (the two that I have) make me a teeny bit loathe to trust them for a month. It would just be so much easier if everyone would all get on board with some basic language and regulations.
Yes, Kafka comes to mind.
Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) – M
Here is my email exchange from Sierra National Forest:
Dear Valued Member of the Public,
Thank you for your email, that is exactly what we are looking for, and that is more than okay with us for you to bring it along. Thank you for checking before you go and have a safe trip!
Sincerley,
Sierra National Forest Public Affairs,
1600 Tollhouse Rd,
Clovis CA 93654
(559) 297-0706
public_affairs@fs.fed.us
Original Message
From: jenmitol@gmail.com [mailto:jenmitol@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 6:09 PM
To: FS-Public Affairs
Subject: WWW Mail: alcohol stoves
Can I please have some clarification about the definition of “portable stove?” I have a small spill-proof alcohol stove (it has carbon mesh over the top that does not allow liquid to escape) and is contained in a stable titanium cone the pot fits in securely. Anyway – Yosemite National Park tells me I am free to use this along the whole length of the JMT. Inyo and SEKI say the same thing; what are your regulations for such a stove?? Can I bring it or not?? Thanks! jen.
Here’s what Bob says about talking to the big guys at the parks:
Re: Re: Re: Re: update on alky stoves on the JMT on 07/15/2014 14:53:16 MDT Reply Report Post Print View
“Bob, ya gotta get the big guys involved.”
Actually, no you don’t, Dan.
The Superintendent of a major national park is not going to come down to the ground level to show any interest in this stove versus that stove. Why, because there is no money involved for them. Superintendents want to talk about budgets and priorities.
Now, if you could get some entity like the Pacific Trail Association to light a fire under some congressman, and then get the congressman to light a fire under the National Park Service… maybe you might get some clarification. However, that is a lot of fires to light, and it probably won’t happen.
I prefer to identify the single public affairs person at each park or forest, and build some rapport, thank them for their help, etc. Then, when I explain the whole problem and how it affects me, that person will be more likely to get me a fairly whole answer. So far, this is what I’ve done, and that’s how I got my answers.
Full Disclosure: I am primarily an Esbit user, but I have most of every type of stove known to mankind. So, when I head to the mountains to pick up my wilderness permit, I will normally have my Esbit burner in my pack, and in my car I will have a butane stove with fuel as the backup system, just in the event that some permit-issuer has heartburn over Esbit. So far, I have never had to switch over that way at the last minute, but I am prepared.
Suppose that you were going to enter XYZ national forest on July 1, but you started at some other place on June 15 and there were no special fire restrictions at that time, so you started with an alcohol burner. Then, due to the drought, on June 20 they raised the fire hazard status and prohibited alcohol stoves starting June 25. You entered on July 1 and the ranger found you cooking over alcohol then. What’s he going to do? If you showed him your permit that allowed a stove, then he can’t hang you right there. If you had done a good job of fireproofing your campsite and the area around your stove, and then if he understands where you were coming from and when, about all he is going to do is to warn you and then he moves on. If he was belligerent about it, he might try to do more, but that is unlikely.
Besides, I see just about zero rangers on the trail these days.
–B.G.–
Edited by –B.G.– on 07/16/2014 15:44:09 MDT.
When you are in a park office and ask for a California campfire permit, do they ask what kind of stove are you going to use?
This is a copy of the Sequoia National Forest fire regulations posted May of this year and effective till the end of the official 2015 fire season:
Inspired by –B.G.–
Bob Gross
(–B.G.–) – F
Locale: Silicon Valley
where is Zelph? on 05/03/2014 10:15:40 MDT Reply Report Post Print View
So, Zelph should hire himself a lobbyist and get some kind of government safety acceptance for his Starlyte stove. Then, it might be the only alcohol stove that is allowed during risky fire season. Wouldn’t that be great for his business?
–B.G.–
I quote Kent T.
At this years GGG gathering in California a burn ban was in affect but the park rangers allowed alcohol stoves to be used.”
Not entirely true. I did not ask about alcohol/Esbit stove use when I was informed about the fire ban. No rangers visited our site that weekend.
A combination of don’t ask, don’t tell plus a little luck.
We did have a fire extinguisher on hand at the demos.
Last year or so someone set the Lost Coast on fire with their overzealous priming of a Whisperlite.
At least alcohol is non explosive and water soluble. Also comes from a renewable source.
Edited by kthompson on 05/04/2014 08:31:00 MDT.
hikin jims out west etc. thread
http://www.fire.ca.gov/communications/communications_firesafety_camping_campfirepermits.php
Campfire Permits
Campfire Permits are designed for use on federally controlled lands including those falling under the US Forest Service, National Park Service, and Bureau of Land Management, and private lands that are the property of another person. On private lands you must also have written permission from the landowner for campfire use.
Permits are required for open fires, such as campfires, barbecues and portable stoves.
Permits are subject to restriction by local authorities. The need for restrictions is reviewed almost daily during the summer months and permits may even be suspended without advance notice. Permittees must check with local authorities each time they go out to an area.
Permits can be issued by the US Forest Service (USFS), Bureau of Land Management (BLM), National Park Service (NPS), and the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CAL FIRE) or online at PreventWildfireCA.org/Permits
Always:
1.Clear all flammable material away from the fire’s edge 5 feet in all directions to prevent escape of the fire.
2.Have a shovel available at the campfire site for preparing and extinguishing campfires.
3.Have a responsible person in attendance at all times.
4.Extinguish campfires with water, using the drown, stir, and feel method.
You can contact the CAL FIRE at 916-653-5123, USFS at 707-562-8737, BLM at 916-978-4400, or refer to the individual National Park at http://www.nps.gov, for more information
http://calfire.ca.gov/about/about.php
About CAL FIRE
The men and women of the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CAL FIRE) are dedicated to the fire protection and stewardship of over 31 million acres of California’s privately-owned wildlands. In addition, the Department provides varied emergency services in 36 of the State’s 58 counties via contracts with local governments.
The Department’s firefighters, fire engines, and aircraft respond to an average of more than 5,600 wildland fires each year. Those fires burn more than 172,000 acres annually.
While Californians are learning more and more about the good as well as the bad of fire, the prevention of large, damaging fires remains a priority for CAL FIRE. From Smokey Bear, to the thousands of CAL FIRE Volunteers in Prevention (VIPs), to new alliances with communities, private industry, and government agencies, aggressive action in fire prevention and fire safety is occurring throughout the State.
Beyond its wildland fire fighting role, CAL FIRE answers the call more than 350,000 times for other emergencies each year. It may very well be a CAL FIRE engine and crew that is dispatched to the scene of an auto accident, or to a home where a child has become the victim of a drowning incident. The Department is always ready to respond – medical aids; hazardous material spills; swiftwater rescues; search and rescue missions; civil disturbances; train wrecks; floods, earthquakes and more.
CAL FIRE Mission Statement Poster
Because of the Department’s size and major incident management experience, it is often asked to assist or take the lead in disasters, including the Northern and Central California floods of 1997, 1998, and 2006; the 1991 Cantara train derailment and toxic spill; 1994 Northridge earthquake; 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake; the 1991 Tunnel Fire in the Oakland/Berkeley Hills; and the 2003 Southern California Fire Siege.
As part of the CAL FIRE team since 1995, the Office of the State Fire Marshal (OSFM) supports the CAL FIRE mission to protect life and property through fire prevention engineering programs, law and code enforcement and education. The OSFM provides for fire prevention by enforcing fire-related laws in state-owned or operated buildings, investigating arson fires in California, licensing those who inspect and service fire protection systems, approving fireworks as safe and sane for use in California, regulating the use of chemical flame retardants, evaluating building materials against fire safety standards, regulating hazardous liquid pipelines, and tracking incident statistics for local and state government emergency response agencies.
The OSFM, State Fire Training, and CAL FIRE Academy programs provide training education and certification programs for the California Fire Service. Through practical training exercises and classroom courses, every California firefighter is exposed to training standards that have been approved by CAL FIRE and OSFM, each among the best institutions in the nation for fire training education. Offering more than 1,000 classes annually, State Fire Training programs reach over 24,000 students each year and have issued over 100,000 certifications to members of the more than 900 fire California fire departments. Each year over 2,000 personnel attend the CAL FIRE Academy in Ione, California participating in courses ranging from basic fire control and arson investigation, to leadership development and forest practice enforcement.
CAL FIRE’s mission emphasizes the management and protection of California’s natural resources; a goal that is accomplished through ongoing assessment and study of the State’s natural resources and an extensive CAL FIRE Resource Management Program. CAL FIRE oversees enforcement of California’s forest practice regulations, which guide timber harvesting on private lands. Department foresters review an average 500 to 1,400 Timber Harvesting Plans (THPs) and conduct over 6,500 site inspections each year. THPs are submitted by private landowners and logging companies who want to harvest their trees. The reviews and inspections ensure protection of watershed and wildlife, as well as renewal of timber resources. Department foresters and fire personnel work closely to encourage and implement fuels management projects to reduce the threat of uncontrolled wildfires. Vegetation management projects such as “controlled burns” take teamwork between foresters, firefighters, landowners, and the local communities. CAL FIRE Foresters promote conservation and the importance of our trees and forests to Californians of all ages.
Firefighters battling a wildfire at nightCAL FIRE manages eight Demonstration State Forests that provide for commercial timber production, public recreation, and research and demonstration of good forest management practices. CAL FIRE foresters can be found in urban areas working to increase the number of trees planted in our cities, or preventing the spread of disease by identifying and removing infected trees. A Native American burial ground in the path of a logging operation or fire may be verified and saved due to a CAL FIRE archaeologist’s review of the area. And, an improved strain of trees, resistant to disease and pests, may be nurtured and introduced by a CAL FIRE forester.
What is CAL FIRE? It is many things for the citizens of the State, and we encourage you to check this web site regularly for new and updated information.
