Best balance of weight + R value in Exped MW pad?

How much does/would the CCF pad weigh?

Hi, EJ:

For clarification the Downmat Winterlite is a LW (1 lb 7.3 oz) vs the MW of the Synmat. I'm looking at the REI spec sheet and it also says R=7 for the Downmat Winterlite… but, whatever the rating, the bottom line is whether or not it actually provides that critical insulation for you. If it can deliver the performance you need without further supplemental CCF, that's the ticket.

But you never know for sure until you try it.

I got a very valuable bit of data on the last winter trip I did this year with a longtime friend and companion on many a winter trip. He was using a Downmat UL 7 (R=5.9) and no CCF to supplement it. The temperature overnight was close to 0°F and he was using a Marmot Plasma 15 and wearing various other clothing (hooded down jacket, MH Chugach synthetic pants, etc) and he told me he was comfortable. I don't doubt this because he had no reason to BS me, but when the campsite was struck the snow beneath his sleep mat told a different story — there was clearly a lot of melted snow that had reconsolidated as ice, indicating a lot of heat loss. My friend also told me he thought the schnozzle inflation procedure was a very tedious hassle.

I also stayed warm overnight using an EE Enigma 20°F (wearing hooded down jacket and down pants), Neoair Trekker (R=3) 47"x25" (Torso-Wide… the only one I know of after extensive googling) and a full-length 1/4" CCF pad, 21"x72" (remnant sale from Kline, sliced and glued) with my pack under my lower legs and feet. The complete weight of my sleep system (including Exped pillow M with strap) was 2.82 lb. Beneath my sleep mat area there was extremely little melting of snow. My airmat/CCF combo weighs 20.74 oz but it is by-gawd warm, and the total system weight is quite respectable. I did test earlier this winter with some 1/8" CCF from GG and it wasn't quite enough, and a TR Ridgerest Solite was too much… and also heavier.

The take-away for me is that the CCF might be a more important factor than the R-value of the air mat.

"Wide" is referenced a couple of times in your descriptors, so I'm gathering that for you — as for me — this is a key factor. I'm a tossy-turny type, so wider is important… I don't like my elbows separated from ice by a mere sheet of Tyvek.

As for the issue of year-round usage, I think I could be happy with the Trekker (13.03 oz) but will will likely end up using the Neoair xlite (8.13 oz) as the weather warms up.

Hi Bob –

I am considering a set up similar to yours but mainly for a late three season trip. It was great (surprising) to read how warm you were at 0º with a thinlite; but as my cold weather use will likely hover around freezing, my main concern here is comfort in general with a torso length pad. I also like the idea of trading some pad length (weight) for the thinlite – great for double duty as a seat on cold ground & some insulation for the legs in sleeping.
Anyway, may I ask how tall you are? And are you by chance a side-sleeper?
I am 6'3, wide shouldered and a 100% side sleeper, so always looking for the widest, strongest, lightest compromise… Anyway, interested to hear your take on using a torso-sized pad in general, as others here have noted issues with soreness from hip to leg drop, etc.

Thanks!

I'm 5"9" so that could make a difference, for sure.

I have also read that the leg drop bothers some people, but it doesn't bother me. The thickness of my pack and my Evazote sit pad mitigate that to a large degree, as does letting a little air out of the pad, although this is of course deep into YMMV territory. Actually, my pack (Arc Blast) is pretty thin — with the arc in the stays released, as they should be! — but I engage the shoulder strap chest buckle, which keeps the padded straps under the pack to add a little more thickness.

I am super tossy-turny. I might wake up on my back, belly or either side. I really appreciate the wider air mat. I have the torso length Neoair xlite but the Trekker sleeps so much more comfortably that I'll just "eat" the extra 5 ounces and call it my luxury item.

Thanks Bob –
One's height/frame is such a critical factor in better understanding all remarks about pads, bags, tents… I can't count the number of times I've read a formal review and then tried (mostly in vain) to find out how tall the reviewer of this and that actually is… my vote that it become standard OP for us to at least mention it when opining about relevant bits of kit.
Anyway, I digress. Very useful information & I appreciate your taking the time to reply-

cheers

I picked up, but haven't yet used, the Exped Synmat Winterlite tapered MW model. I have only tried it out in an REI and haven't tried out a new Xtherm because they didn't have a wide model in store stock or in demo. I can exchange it for an Xtherm Large and have to choose one or the other in the next few weeks before a few months travel. After reading comments about missing insulation in side baffles of the Exped I'm wondering if I should switch it to the NeoAir Xtherm Large, which tapers but is I think about 23-24 in. wide for most of the torso area (less aggressive taper than the Exped). Only about 1.5 ounces heavier than the Exped Synmat Winterlite MW and the taper on the Xtherm looks better (wider for more of the length).

Most comfortable inflatable I ever used was an Exped Downmat in winter, and as a side sleeper prefer a wider pad, which is why I gravitated toward the Synmat Winterlite MW.

If I remember it correctly, the NeoAirs suffer from bafflecollapse at the sides, making the usable width 2" smaller.

Read a comment recently that said the side collapse thing looks like it would be an issue when you look at the pad but then upon use it isn't. Personally I felt the side collapse on the original 20 in. version, but haven't been able to try the new Xtherm models especially the wide models.

>>If I remember it correctly, the NeoAirs suffer from bafflecollapse at the sides, making the usable width 2" smaller.

I find that this is a very subjective statement. I never had any issues with my older regular model NeoAir collapsing at the sides. Maybe it's just the way I am made, but my arms stayed on that pad…

And to add to that, I actually find the Exped pads to be worse, especially the SynMat UL7. Between the round baffle and the slick material, my arms will fall right off the sides of the 20" Exped pads every time. It's quite annoying actually…

Chad – i read your review of the synmat UL7 and it's so interesting – because your criticisms of the exped are EXACTLY the criticisms i have about the neoairs (slippery material, I seem to fall right off, feels like I'm sleeping on a tube ready to roll off to the L or R…but the Exped seems to keep me nestled right in the middle….) – which is why I've been sticking with exped.

Who knew pads could be just as subjective as shoes n' packs??!

>>Who knew pads could be just as subjective as shoes n' packs??!

Agreed… we all have our own perceptions of things, as well as expectations, and pads are definitely one of those things that are different from person to person. I am just glad that we have so many different options to choose from! :)

Anyone have any experience of mixing these with ccf pad? Thinking this may be a good combo.

I prefer the Exped vertical baffles and non-tacky feel too. I have the LW and I'm guessing that makes a solid difference in terms of side-side stability. I'm 6ft 180lb and the mat does a great job of centering and cradling me. I can see where the design might be problematic in the regular 20-inch width though, especially if you're a size-L person. If you have bigger shoulders (why I went L/W) it might seem cramped and tough to find a spot for your arms.

No discussion of Exped inflatables should happen without knowing the potential for baffles bursting at the worst time on a winter trip. Always have a ccf backup or a cache pad at the trailhead.

I was on Day 1 of a 19 day January trip in the cold mountains of NC and on night 1 my Exped downmat blew a baffle. I had to walk 12 miles out of the way to pick up my cached Thermarest.

As an aside, on my last trip (May 2015) I pulled a 17 day trip and my Thermarest pad blew and delaminated in the field. Luckily I had a NeoAir All Season cached 10 miles away under some dead leaves.

The second one looks like a built in pillow! Good tips Tipi.

I have a Synmat regular width pad. I mostly use my prolite 3/4 but do use my synmat a half dozen times per year.

I'm a side sleeper, am a very large mammal, and I don't have issues with my arms falling off the sides.

I think the issue here is that I'm further north than Chad, so the planet is spinning at a higher velocity where he lives than where I do, and is likely the reason he can't keep his arms on the pad.

"No discussion of Exped inflatables should happen without knowing the potential for baffles bursting at the worst time on a winter trip."

+1

Mine first one (V1.0) failed on about night 10.

Now I "stress test" new ones in the living room. They get inflated to max, and then gently abused for about 30 minutes. If they don't pass, I get a replacement (from REI) and try again.

For matts, I buy only from REI for the unlimited "manufactures defects" return policy. The Exped UL series has a two year warranty. REI goes beyond that.

>>I think the issue here is that I'm further north than Chad, so the planet is spinning at a higher velocity where he lives than where I do, and is likely the reason he can't keep his arms on the pad.

That would explain my constant dizziness… :)