Any real world benefit to Hydrophobic Down jackets? PNW BPL’ers please chime in

They didn’t test a normal down jacket as a control, which is really quite necessary, but this at least SEEMS impressive.

Down Jacket Frozen Lake

EJ, I've seen enough that for me it would definitely be a big consideration for down garments/quilts/bags in the future.

As a relatively cheap experiment I got an EB Stormdown 800 down hoodie with DriTek and gradually cranked up the level of abuse this past winter. I did a bunch of short trips in order to tweak my winter kit and I'm convinced that it fared far better than untreated down.

My links don't stick, so here's a copy/paste:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=98384&skip_to_post=847557#847557

Check the last page on this thread:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=95623&startat=100

Thanks Drew and Bob. The practical question I'm wrestling with is – the Ms. and I are picking up hooded down jackets – there are good options in standard down, and I think much fewer and more expensive ones in hydrophobic down (anyone please correct me if I'm wrong). Just wondering whether it's worth looking for and paying more for a hydrophobic offering now. It's pretty easy to pick up a good, lightweight standard hooded down jacket – there are some very good choices available.

EJ, of course it's a guess, but I can't help but think that there will be a whole raft of next winter's models stuffed with DownTek or DriDown.

Quite frankly, I had such a good experience with the EB that it's my go-to down to 0°F and a bit beyond, although much lower than that would require a bit more insulation and a hood with better coverage and hem/hood/cuff adjustment options. Something like a Montbell Mirage with treated down. However, the fit and cut of the EB is very good and I'm hoping that the elastic in the hem, hood and cuffs lasts a good long while.

And I'd really like to test-drive a DownTek quilt next winter.

I've never had much difficulty keeping my down jacket dry. I don't think I've ever got it substantially wet beyond the wrists. If I'm planning a truly sloppy trip (i.e. packrafting) then I'll bring fleece, but otherwise I bring down year round.

Hydrophobic down is a neat feature but not that important if you take care of your stuff. All else being equal, I'd rather have it, but I wouldn't buy a jacket you aren't that excited about just to get this. Find the down jacket that suits your needs and then if it comes in hydrophobic down that's a bonus.

I think for me the resistance to a constant damp/humid environment is likely to be more relevant than how it takes a soaking.

I just hope WM and Feathered Friends never uses this technology as their products are perfect without it.

Plus, anyone know the long-term effects of the chemicals they use to coat the down? Does it out-gas or become an inhaled powder? I mean, it seems to be a process with no long-term testing and yet many people are overly excited about using it.

I'm with Tipi Walter on this one. Nature did a pretty good job with down. Ducks and geese are waterfowl after all. I'll be curious to see what the new dry down garments look like in a couple decades. Although I'd guess only a very small percentage of the market purchases products w/ the intention of hanging onto them for that long these days.

two things

– the flurocarbons used are similar to that used on the DWR of jackets (and many home products) … one should stop using those if they feel theres any issues

– the UL jackets wont last decades with regular daily use … these arent the old bomber 500-600 down decent feather content parkas with durable shells

the down will eventually wear out and lose loft (even with washing), and the shell will get holes with regular long term use

now whether DWR down makes sense, thats up to the user … but it generally doesnt hurt

;)

I recall some anecdote a few months ago, in which they poster's son and son's friend's bags got wet and the treated down one fared better by comparison.

+1 on all things being equal, sure, give it a shot.

Speaking from my experience on the olympics, it's more important to stay dry and lofty in washington when not raining and more importantly to have warm gear when wet in a rainforest. For the price of one down jacket you can make two Apex jackets to custom fit you if that's what you're into. Just add more merino wool to the moisture wick, merino, windbreak style, and maybe slip in a cashmere sweater vest and 2ozthin polyester longsleeve. I use the 10oz, 2.5apex jacket at night with 200weight merino long johns, and raincoat ontop if it's real cold. works for me all winter as long as I have enough calories.

Average overnight humidity's about the same here as the PNW, and we get more annual rainfall(not precip-they get snow in the mountains that give their numbers a huge bump).
While I have noticed the effects of moisture, whether from humidity, perspiration, condensation, etc. on sleeping bags(and went with HyperDry down when I switched to quilts, as a result), I really haven't had any ill effects with my untreated down jackets, presumably because they're only worn around camp for a couple of hours, and occasionally to bump the sleep system. Given the choice, in a product that fits and I'm buying anyway, I'd go with treated down, but I've personally had no reason to give that any priority in a buying decision.

I can't believe some big manufacturer hasn't sewn one of their nice hoodies with a vertical baffle down the back and filled one whole side of the jacket with untreated down, and the other whole side with treated down, and then sent it around to testers (and not told them which side contained what) to get feedback.

Something as simple as that would put a lot of this to rest.

Western Mountaineering are doing this in house.

But if it showed that treated down had no significant benefit, it would kill sales.

Better to invest their money in slick advertising : )