56Km Race Plan

That seems to me like a whole lot of stuff for a 10 hr outing. I personally dislike carrying extra weight when running. I don't know your route, but I suppose that in Japan you're not that far from civilization. I never carry a first aid kit on a day run, regardless of length. You seem to be carrying a ton of clothing. Since you're doing this on your own why not just wait until a nice day with no precip forecast and just go with the wind shirt? Not criticizing your thorough plan, but just providing another perspective. Carrying a lot of stuff slows you down (both with weight & with messing with stuff).

As far as food, I've always found that 200 cal/hr works well for me over long periods of continuous movement.

My 2 Yen anyway. Have fun!

Peter,
thanks for providing another perspective – that is of course what I posted it for.

I realise especially from a complete running perspective it is a lot.
The trails themselves are steep and technical, lots of scrambling, hiking, but there are two points to get out more easily, so I could go with less for sure.

I like to do it as a sort of training to be self sufficient, and not rely on anything or anybody for when doing more remote trails.
Reading back it does look very elaborate, but In any case, what I'm carrying is basically a rain jacket, rain pants, thin liner gloves, dry socks, extra shirt. I like, but don't need, the extra shirt (it is more for when I'm done, riding the train back home).

Perhaps I'm coming from it with a bit too much of a hiking perspective. I'll take another look at things.
Again, appreciate the fresh eyes.

As an aside – really like the top zippered pockets of your Adventure Vest. Thought they would have been nice to have on the Fastpack 20 as well.

edit – I guess it could all easily fit into a smaller vest, just don't want to get more gear for a while. I feel like minimising a bit.

I have to say I agree with Peter – I've done unsupported 50K+ run/hikes with the AK vest, and it worked fine – close to civilization though with plenty of bail out options. The PB vest would be perfect for something like this where you are carrying a bit more stuff.

I've also gone with a 15-20L pack and more stuff when the goal was training for a bigger objective and/or being prepared for weather and being out longer. It will slow you down but it's good training for the mountains!

for an unsupported run in the mountains, best not leave things to chance :) with aid stations spaced nicely out, you can get by w/ less, but even then my mantra is not to throw caution into the wind I remember a mountain race a couple of years ago that was forecast sunny and warm, half the field was in shorts and singlets w/ just a water bottle to carry- about two hours into the race a strong snow storm rolled in, the folks in shorts and singlets had to be led off the mountain (in a hurry!)- I donned a hardshell, beanie and gloves and was good to go

I've added two full strength aspirin to my small fak- for chewing on onset of a hear attack (heaven forbid)

I always throw in at a minimum a 2 person heatsheet for shelter in a pinch- just a couple of ounces

for an emergency fire I've found a wonderful, easy to use tinder- Live Fire Sport- easy to light/spark, big flame w/ almost 15 minutes of burn time (can be reused if you need less fire), the little tin weighs 0.4 oz and could really save your bacon in wet conditions when a fire has to be started

you're correct on the headlamp, the smaller lamps just don't cut it in the dark on technical ground- I carry a spare battery as well w/ mine

if you're wearing a lwt long sleeve top base, I don't see the need for a t-shirt

my experience w/ changing socks is that the 2nd pair become just as wet within minutes, I don't bring extra socks- good wool socks retain a lot of warmth even when wet and I haven't had any problems w/ hotspots when wet either

I keep a small tube of anti-chafe in my pack- chafing can ruin a run in a hurry

I wouldn't change your hardshell layers, they sound like they work well

not sure of temps, but I always have at least one insulating layer w/ me running in the mountains- minimum of a light fleece or syn vest

you don't mention a warm hat, but am guessing your neck gaiters can be fashioned into a hat/balaclava???

hydration and fueling, if you have very good water sources (snow melt) than you can probably forego purification, if not on that length of run you'll need to consider that- with two bottles you can use Micropur tabs which weigh nothing (treating one bottle, drinking on the other) or use a UV pen for instant water (heavier)

everyone is different, but on runs longer than 12-15 miles, I always bring salt tabs to stave off cramps

fuel- I've found that I do better w/ less than "recommended"; I've had several bouts w/ bad nausea on long runs that were terribly miserable, after cutting back on calories I've had a lot better luck- I'm averaging a little over 100 calories an hour (I'm not really petite either, 180 lbs/5'11")

I use Cliff Bloks (~30 cals a block) at ~30 minute intervals and then about every 2 hours take in a 1/2 a Hammer Bar (220 cals/bar)

fueling is very individual, so lots of experimentation needed, but if you suffer from nausea on long runs, consider cutting back the cals a little worked for me

I always carry extra bars for emergency purposes

I've probably added more weight than reduced w/ my suggestions, but I'm cautious in the mountains-especially unsupported

I also agree with Peter, and I don't know if there is anyone more qualified on BPL to weigh in one single day unsupported runs. I've been able to fit everything I needed in an AK vest for even my longest single days.

I don't disagree with Peter.
However, Peter is extremely experienced.
There is a learning curve in all this, and a bit of conservatism is often a good thing in the early stages of this learning curve.
that said, you can be fully prepared for a 16 hour day (non winter), all gear and food, with a 5 lb pack.

Had this whole reply typed out to reply to all the different thoughts, but lost it.

I didn't expect more than one reply – thanks all for the different views.

I think it is a really interesting discussion between taking the minimal and taking a bit more when going without support.
In the end everybody decides for themselves of course but it is also important to know the context (technicality of mountain, remoteness, not just distance or vert). To me I think part of why peoples gear differs is the respective context (weather, terrain, individual skill, own body needs, etc.) and the choice they make based upon that context. As far as I am concerned that choice is yours and I don't need to convince you otherwise or don't feel the need to agree or not. I do think it is important to make the distinction between the context and the choice part.

Waiting for a nice day in weather does not do a lot over here. It is very changeable, and with sections where you can't just power through because it's more technical.. I remember thinking 'this is the most beautiful day this year' only for a tropical rain storm to open up and wash away the trails in 5 minutes, with thunder so close it made my ears ring for hours. Land slides, fallen trees etc., are not uncommon at all. I've seen quite some people on trails with nothing but a wind shirt and a small bottle that have to ask me the route because they have no map or compass.

In the end I'm coming from it a bit more from Mike's angle.
I don't think I'm carrying a crazy amount, but do like to make it through the night if necessary (in case I get hurt etc. don't have to be cozy, but rainwear I will always take). I prefer not to be just lucky. I've been onset hyperthermic when running/climbing up for 6 hours in rain in my wind shirt. I was never real cold, but when I arrived to a hut I shook for two hours and couldn't write because my hands were shaking so much. Nothing bad, but I like to keep that covered. Also if the trail turns real technical, you don't always have the choice to move so fast as you want to make up for your lack of layers.. Of course you can bail, or change your route, but I like to carry a minimal amount more, so that I can do what I came there to do.

No doubt this trail could be made more minimally though.
I'm not new to the area and not new to the distance, though I of course don't have nearly as much experience as somebody like Peter. Appreciate all the thoughts.

No natural water sources, but there are two or more places where I can refill bottles.
I am surprised and interested in the calories you Peter and Mike take.

I was talking with a triathlete who competes internationally about the 1.2gr carb/kg body weight as a rough guideline of what you can absorb hourly. I have read other amounts too, or just a set amount independent of body size/weight.

I am close to Mike, 6.1" a bit lighter (160#).
I don't think I really eat the 345gr. of carbs/hour that amounts to in my case. But 100~200 is a different thing than what I'm used to. I will try that out on a couple of training sessions.

I normally eat something before I start, then don't eat the first hour. Then fuel with Maltodextrin in green tea. I prefer to eat nuts and dried fruits on training runs. Running/power hiking up and down Mt. Fuji I found when I really get cramps and can't eat anymore, I can still drink green tea with maltodextrin (which is tasteless). I can't drink Coke at all (find it nasty), and sports drinks I can take, but I don't like them much.

I think for the purpose of this route, I will alternate between nuts/dried fruit and the maltodextrin.
Amount of water depends on temperature and humidity around the time. The summers are gruelling. Very very humid. You look like you came out of the shower after the first 5 minutes of climbing (that is also what the extra s/s shirt was for – the train ride home).
I bring salt pills or salt candy that they sell for that purpose in the summers here in Japan.

Good discussion! The lighter-weight rain jackets that are becoming available (OR, UD, CAMP) make the rain vs wind jacket question moot. I sure remember some hellacious rain in Japan! Anyway, it seems like you have thought this through carefully. One thing I notice about experience is that it can make a person overly casual!

I think the conventional wisdom on calories (or kjoules) is that you just need enough carbs to stoke your body's fat burning oven. Being backpackers and ultrarunners we're all probably very efficient fat burners. Plus, you start with about 2000 cal of stored glycogen. This means you can get by on very few calories – take a look at Anton Krupicka's training runs where he does 6-7 hours on 3 gels. For myself, I just don't enjoy feeling hungry so I eat more than Anton. I think your malto + green tea is excellent since it also has caffeine which stimulates fat burning. I do a similar thing with instant coffee. I put 1000-1200 cal of malto mix + coffee in a bottle an sip on that over several hours.

This sounds like a cool route & I love the train shuttle!

Good point about the 2000Kcal already stored. I'm going to experiment a bit with less fuel, and will just take a bit more calories with me as extra/backup.

The green tea is amazing for me. Took a while to find out but I can drink that when I can't even drink water anymore.
Thanks!

Ito – sounds like you are playing it smart given the variable weather, terrain, remoteness, and your projected speed. In that scenario taking more stuff definitely makes sense especially if bailing out is not easy at any given point. Sounds like you've thought it through well and I'm sure it will be an awesome run – Good luck!!!!

Thanks Allen. I can't wait, still healing up.

Some of what was lost in last post was in response to Mike's more elaborate list.

A quick rerun:
These things I would normally bring on longer efforts, or if wilder / higher terrain, thanks to your post I am rethinking on putting it back:
– I put a fresh battery in on a one day effort, if longer then for sure I will bring an extra battery.
– I bring a thermal space jacket, has a hood, fits over everything, and is tiny.
– socks, I know, it is a bit much, but I have to say it has helped me a lot mentally. But a luxury. Might stay home.
– s/s shirt, for train ride back. The looks you get on the busy night train with everybody in their suits I can deal with. But if I can even smell myself, then how much torture am I really bringing down on these people?
– hard shells like you say are staying. I found out the jacket is leaking a bit, but I'll put some tape on it.
– the gaiters do make a nice balaclava, with the hoods and my cap it is warm enough. I often wear a super light cap/beanie on the street though, and might bring it as well.
-thermal layer, depending on season and altitude I normally bring a thin fleece or a synth (Atom LT hoody to vest). Depends on the general temps for this trip if I will take them.
-FAK, medicine wise I only carry Ibuprofen, unless again I'm out longer or more remotely.

I think overall we have a very similar set up. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Just as an aside, Marc Laithwaite has some interesting articles over on iancorless.org.

http://iancorless.org/?s=Laithwaite&submit=Search