Lightweight shelter for two in desert

I have hiked a couple times in the desert :)

I usually just use a tarp or (mostly a Hexamid), but they do not meet your requirements as stated.

For windy times (especially in the spring), I bring a Trailstar. You are correct about the large footprint. It is easy to set up if you have room for it. Trying to accommodate obstacles when pitching makes it difficult to get a taut pitch, the stakes and guylines have to be at the just the right location.

It sounds like a DuoMid is perfect for you, however I have never used one.

I find loose sandy soil more prevalent than other types where I have hiked. Depending upon where I am going, and what previous knowledge of the area I have, I may bring plain Ti stakes, Ground Hog Stakes, Long Easton aluminum stakes, SMC snow stakes or a combination of all of the above. There is no set of stakes that work in deserts.

Tarptent may have shelters that fit your needs, but I only have experience with the Scarp 1, which is not one of my desert shelters.

Good luck on your search. Good job of analyzing your needs and clarify your requests with a lot of good information.

Thanks, Nick – and for the compliment on my stating my requirements, unrealistic though they may be :-(

Usually in GC the ground is very hard; though I've had fairly good luck with titanium spikes, you sure don't want to have to move them. Of course, beach camps are loose sand, but they're less common. For the most part though, you end up relying on rock anchors. One issue with them is that in the wind, even a large rock will shift a little, thus messing up the tautness of the pitch. That (and, of course, cost) is one reason I'll avoid cuben, since the silnylon is stretchier, so hopefully a little more forgiving in that regard. I've also read (specifically re. the TrailStar) that it's much easier to get a good pitch with silnylon (versus cuben).

I don't think I want a Tarptent. I had a Lightheart Duo and did not like it. I feel like, perhaps incorrectly, that something will two poles will be less stable and harder to set up. Of course the TrailStar has a second pole, but only for the door. Plus, like I said, why have something with a floor (except it can be smaller and still protect from blowing rain) ? And tents are heavier.

There's definitely no silver bullet here. I agree that no shelter is best (in fact I recently went well over a year without even owning a shelter and have only carried one a handful of times since then). I had a trailstar at one point but the footprint and need for good staking to get a good pitch led me to sell it. A sil flat tarp is what I've settled on, and although it can still be a pain, it's cheap and light and offers some flexibility for tricky pitching spots. Lots of tieouts is a must.

I'm remembering a really bad sandstorm in Jumpup Canyon one night…and a lesser one at Lower Tapeats Creek on another trip…

An open shelter might not always be so suitable in the desert. When those sandstorms were blowing, I wish we'd had one of those solid fabric tent inners that some manufacturers offer.

OTOH, a lot of the time, when the weather is good, we just cowboy camp.

Wind and dust are the two conditions I have most encountered. I found a bivy sack is good then. Less trouble with condensation in dry climes, so bivys work well, even the WPB types. Also keeps out scorpions better than just a tarp. I like a small dark tarp for shade and thunderstorms and a bivy for wind, dust, bugs.

Also like closed cell foam which won't go flat from cactus spines.

The problem I've run into with pyramid tarps in the desert (or anywhere with hard ground) is that they can place a lot of strain on those main corner stakes (also an issue when pitching in soft sandy spots). If you can find big rocks or get good purchase, a pyramid tarp works great. One advantage of a flat tarp with many tie-outs is that it seems to spread things out more evenly. They are also less picky than pyramid tarps with regards to stake placement. I don't know how the Trailstar does in those situations.

I think I am moving on to using a semi-freestanding shelter. For example, from Big Sky:

A set of 2-person aluminum poles weighs 10.9 oz
A 2-person tent fly weighs around 9.4 oz (that is for their Soul X2, I assume the other 2-person models weigh a couple ounces more)
Use their X-cord and grommet kit (probably weighs an ounce or two) to set up the tent with fly-only

This combo will weigh about the same as a DuoMid, and all the stakes/rocks have to do is guy out the vestibules and make sure it doesn't blow away. You can get a solid inner for some models

I haven't camped at the GC but I have camped in the Chihuahuan Desert and the Guadalupe Mountains.

From what you're describing I think a Duomid or similar shaped tarp might be the ticket. I use a Locus Khufu myself and find it to be very versatile in the desert. Mids are strong in the wind with one pole and stonger even with 2. They're easy to pitch and don't require a lot of space. The doors can be zipped up all the way or left open depending on the weather. A silnylon Mid would run you $240 from MLD and they just added some new color options. If you decide it wasn't for you, then selling it to recoup most of your investment shouldn't be difficult.

"I don't think I want a Tarptent. I had a Lightheart Duo and did not like it. I feel like, perhaps incorrectly, that something will two poles will be less stable and harder to set up.'

Yes fair enough…(apart from the stability bit) but take a look at the Tarptent (oh dear…) Double Moment. Nothing like the one you had in mind.
Two pegs but could be rocks (add guylines for the windy spots, so 4 "rock piles") plenty of ventilation , if you want but can be sealed up too,no trekking poles. .
(however not in the price range you listed)

(you may want to think if you need a bug free environment or not. The DM has that but can be set up fly only too.)
franco@tarptent

I haven't used the Double Moment, but I used to have a 1P Moment and, yes, it is tough to argue that you wouldn't be able to find two tie-down points almost anywhere. Wicked fast to set up, too. But heavy by your criteria.

I have used my MLD SuperMid several times at GRCA when group camping. Frankly, like you, we usually cowboy camped so it probably hasn't actually been set up much, but I've never had trouble doing so. I use a minimalist 4oz bivy rather than a ground sheet- it keeps the scorpions, bugs, and rattlesnakes out better. And other than the usual morning and evening breezes I have never had to deal with ridiculous winds there.

I quite agree with Ryan Jordan when he wrote something along the lines of "If you could have only ONE ultralight shelter for the rest of your life it should probably be a mid of some sort." I disagree with his love of bright colors, especially yellow, but otherwise I'm with him. Setup doesn't get much faster and easier than a mid (except the Moment, as I mentioned). Stake out the four corners then pop the pole in place. Voila. It's hard to mess it up, short of fiddling with how high/low to the ground you want it. And you can always just leave the door(s) open for a view. 90% of the time you only need four or five stakes, yet with all twelve stakes (four corners, four sides, four side panel guylines) they are pretty darned bomber.

So if you're looking for "easy enough to set up that I won't be tempted to take risks with the rain" a mid might be better than a flat tarp for you. OTOH if the weight is your greatest concern then, yes, you'll certainly do better with some sort of minimalist tarp.

An MLD DuoMid is my universal solo shelter. And, yes, it can sleep two, but it really shines as a palatial one-person shelter. For two I would recommend something a hair bigger- perhaps the DuoMid XL, if not a SpeedMid?

The minimalism of the TrailStar has tempted me- heck, it doesn't even have a zipper- but I've never quite pulled the trigger on that purchase. I've heard people say that setup is easy, but I've heard others say that it takes a bit of practice. And, yes, everyone agrees that the footprint is huge. The disadvantage compared to a mid is the low angle of the walls and resultant lesser ability to take snow loading, but that's probably not an issue for you. TrailStars supposedly set the standard in wind handling, when using all ten stakes.

Other than some sort of minimalist flat tarp, though, you're going to have trouble keeping things below 1 pound. Unless, of course, you're ready to go cuben. Those MLD mids all run 20-24 oz in silnylon before seam sealing. In cuben I think they are all significantly less than a pound.

Thanks for all the thoughts, folks.

I think the SuperMid is out – too expensive and heavy.

The SpeedMid – maybe.

I'm a little perplexed why a mid (other than the DuoMid) might be better than TrailStar. I have been computing the "bounding circle" (the smallest circle that could be inscribed around the tent footprint), and for the SpeedMid and SuperMid, it is 12'3". For the TrailStar it is virtually identical (12'2"). So I don't see much advantage to the SpeedMid over the TrailStar.

The DuoMid remains interesting. Its bounding-circle is 10'1". I'm thinking though, at only 5ft wide and a single pole, it might be cramped for two, yet it's the same weight as the TrailStar. So the only advantage is that the footprint is a little smaller, so maybe more usable in cramped sites.

The Patrol Tarp Duo still interests. The jury seems out on how well it'd work for two people when pitched tight to ground for stormy weather. It is 3oz lighter too. There is another thread on it, which I'll keep watching.

Yes, freestanding is appealing, if workable without too much additional weight. I find the Big Sky website exasperating, and I wonder how you were able to get exact weight for the individual components; all I see is a total weight, and then modifications to that in the pulldown lists, but no indication what the weight would be with no interior at all (other than some vague comment that it's "under 2lbs"). Too, I don't think they'll sell you just the poles/fly/x-cord, so it's mighty expensive (though I'm sure I'd bring the interior along on some trips, so it might be a good universal shelter). Still, I'd be willing to add some additional weight and cost for freestanding, if I could get some better data.

"I'm a little perplexed why a mid (other than the DuoMid) might be better than TrailStar."

It isn't better, it is a different kind of shelter.

It pitches low to the ground, no zippers and you have to crawl in. No vent in the roof. Duomid is taller, so probably sheds snow better. Trailstar will shed wind better. I have never seen a Duomid, but my experience with other mids would indicate the Trailstar has more "livable" space, but not as much room to sit up — you need to get closer to the center.

I had to email Big Sky for individual component weights of the Soul X2 – they are not listed on the website. All their 2P tents use the same basic set of 2 poles. You could email them and see if they'd sell you just the fly and poles, but I think at some point you'd want the interior.

I have already stated my opinion that the DuoMid truly shines as a palace for one, rather than as a cramped ghetto for two. :) I haven't had a chance to play with the DuoMid XL so I cannot comment intelligently as to whether or not it is a more functional 2P shelter.

Regarding mid vs TrailStar- clearly, they are different. Neither is "better" unless it better meets you needs. So I'm a bit perplexed as to why your sole criteria seems to be "bounding circle."

But, if you want to know what advantages a similarly-footprinted mid might have over the TrailStar, frex:

For the same footprint I GUARANTEE you that a mid has more useable space. The TrailStar suffers from those low-angle walls cutting into useable space, unless you pitch it very high like an awning. It also has a lower ceiling, so you can't sit up, whereas I can damned near stand erect in my Supermid. Thus I would much rather be storm-bound for a day or two in the mid. For similar reasons it's probably safer to cook in the mid if you must. I find it hard to believe that a mid isn't easier and faster to set up. Finally, as I mentioned before, the higher-angle walls of the mid are better for snow loading, though that isn't really an issue for you.

The advantages of the TrailStar are less. First, it lacks a zipper as a point of failure. Second, the low profile makes it even more bomber in the wind than the mid. Third- it works well with trek poles without a pole jack or cumbersome lashing of poles together. Trying to think of others…

But, there you have it: "better" is very relative. And if MLD's prices are too high, shop around. Other companies make mids the size of the SuperMid. Oware makes a 9'x9' 28oz mid for $220, or an 8'x8' 21oz mid for $200.

I didn't mean to say "bounding circle" is my sole criterion; I just thought of it as a good quantifier for the footprint size of the several different shapes of shelter that I'm considering. But, I realize that it's not really that good. Because even though the DouMid's bounding-circle isn't that much smaller than TrailStar (10ft versus 12ft), I should also be looking at the "smallest dimension". For the DouMid that is 5ft (since the the thing is 60" wide), whereas for the TrailStar it is more than double that ! Bottom line: the DouMid is probably going to be usable in a lot of places that the TrailStar is not.

Thanks for the discussion of other points of comparison. I don't winter camp, so snow shedding is not an issue. It gets windy in GC, but it ain't the mountains, so I don't think I need the additional wind-worthiness of the TrailStar.

So I'm starting to favor a pyramid. Still wondering if the DouMid is big enough, since I use a wide pad (GF uses regular width). But since I hope to only actually sleep inside the thing maybe 20% of my trail nights, being a little cramped is ok, I suppose, as long as it keeps our down sleeping bags reasonably dry in a windy rainstorm.

Mind you, I'm the local mid pimp- I'll talk them up any chance I get. Bear that in mind.

If the DuoMid might be cramped for two- and I agree that it is- consider the DuoMid XL. Or the cheaper Oware mids I mentioned, though I think that their smallest is 8'x8'. OTOH for "emergency only" use as you describe an argument could be made for the DuoMid, despite the cramp. Two people in a DuoMid is definitely possible, though in my 5'10" experience it's a very tight fit. Your call.

But all of these are going to be over your weight goal. Unless you go cuben- which would break your price goal. The best way to meet both goals is likely a simple tarp of some kind, but that doesn't sound like what you're looking for, and would be even more open to wind-blown sand than a mid or TrailStar.

Oh, and one concern for a mid is what to use for the center pole. The DuoMid works fine with a trek pole on a rock (or pole-jack) but for anything taller you need either a dedicated pole or the struggle of lashing two trek poles together. For instance when I carry my SuperMid (which is very rarely anymore) I usually use my Luxury Lite Big Survival Stik as both hiking staff and center pole rather than use trek poles.

Or, of course, scrounging a stick of appropriate length is rarely a challenge below treeline. Or scrounge two longer sticks to make an A-frame (or use no pole at all and tie the apex loop to an overhanging branch instead) for even more internal room.

I guess you can add that to the advantages of the TrailStar- it works just fine with trek poles. [EDITED above.]

I think you (and myself) have convinced me that a 'Mid is the way to go. The only question is which one. I didn't mean to imply that 1lb is an absolute weight limit, just that it should be "not much over a pound". Thanks for the warning about pole length; my (single) one goes to 56".

I I believe I have to rule out the SuperMid and DuoMid XL on account of weight, and also the pole length issue. The Oware 8×8 is about the same weight as DuoMid but a good bit roomier. But my hiking pole appears too short for it as well (scrounging suitable sticks is unlikely in GC.).

So I think my contenders are DuoMid vs SpeedMid. I wonder if Ron would make a custom size (say 72 x 104") for the $10 "custom gear charge" :-) ? Can't hurt to ask, I guess.

With the single pole setup, the Duomid needs only one short pole jack, or a rock as has been suggested, although a rock might end up taking up too much floor space, especially with 2 people inside. I use the inverted-V setup using 2 poles and long CF pole jacks. But I so much prefer the open space afforded by the 2-pole arrangement that I happily carry the pole jacks. For me and my dog it's a palace.

After a full winter of experience with it, the Duomid (mine is silnylon) has earned its position as my primary winter shelter, though for the rest of the year the Hexamid Duplex is my go-to. , the Duomid can be pitched very quickly once you have a little experience with it.

Believe it or not, a third to nearly half of Washington is desert. I live in the middle of it. As you're well aware, the desert is a diverse place. There are areas where I have to use snow stakes in the sand and other places where I can't finesse my ti stakes into the ground due to the basalt.

I don't worry too much about the stakes. If I'm going somewhere where I know I'm going to be sleeping in sand dunes, then I'll bring my snow stakes. Otherwise I just bring my ti stakes and improvise as I go. Regardless if I'm in the desert or in the mountains, it's not uncommon for me to set up camp in an area where I can get the stakes in the ground. Between tying my tarp to trees/bushes, and using my stakes as a deadman of sorts under ballast, I've never been in a situation where I couldn't work something out.

I do hate dust storms though and we get our fair share. As far as a $200 1lb two person shelter goes in those conditions, I have nothing for you.

But since you two are comfortable sleeping under the stars, I'd recommend just getting a silnylon Grace Duo from MLD and tie a bandanna over your eyes when the dust storms hit.

How about a Borah Gear Borahgami?

http://borahgear.com/borahgami.html

I am not sure if they are still making it any more (you would have to ask them), and I think it would be cramped for two when pitched to the ground. But the weight is good and it might give you a bit more versatility for something you rarely use

They may have to cart me away to the "nervous hospital" soon ! But thanks for the additional suggestions. I keep being seduced by the open spacious look of the Grace Tarp Duo (and other tarps). But that openness isn't going to be so swell in the typical GC windy rainstorm, and if it's not raining, I'm gonna be under the stars. Plus I gotta believe a tarp, even a catenary-cut one, is not quite as simple to get a good setup with (as a pyramid). Especially when you're using rocks instead of stakes.

It's not difficult but mids are great so it's a moot point. I have a mid as well. Both shelters are great but I find my Grace Solo is fine for me in most conditions so it's become my go-to shelter.

Silnylon duo mid is a bit more expensive and heavier than the criteria you listed but I suspect it'll serve you well if you go that route.

IIRC one advantage of the SpeedMid is that its apex is *just* low enough not to need a pole jack with most trek poles whereas the DuoMid does need a jack (or a rock). Not, mind you, that a 4-inch aluminum tube weighs very much, but that's one less thing to forget and leave home when you need it. And of course in GRCA there is no shortage of 4-inch rocks.

Of course the low apex coupled with its large footprint means that the SpeedMid has relatively low-angled walls for a mid. It's a very TrailStar-like mid that way, though not nearly so radical. This *may* mean better wind performance. Perhaps that's why it lacks side panel guy points? (It also lacks a peak vent.) It surely means slightly less useable space than you'd expect given it's footprint, but it's such a huge footprint that it would still be a palace for two, unlike the cramped DuoMid, which I personally would never intentionally use for two people.

In fact the SpeedMid has the same large footprint as a SuperMid, so it may not be much of an improvement over a TrailStar as regards footprint. Still much easier to pitch, though.

I suspect that I've got you truly puzzled, now.

Decisions, decisions…

EDIT- here's the RJ link:

http://ryanjordan.com/blog/2010/05/the-versatility-of-the-pyramid-as-an-ultralight-shelter/

Maybe you should just get a large silnylon tarp from Dave at Oware and practice the different pitches. You can get a 9' X 9' for $115 @ 16 ounces or a 10' X 10' for 18.5 ounces and $120. Shaped tarps have pluses and minuses. I have spent many, many nights in desert windstorms protected by a flat tarp in 1/2 pyramid mode.

Thanks Dean, for discussion of this topic – particularly the noting of the lack of a vent in SpeedMid – and for your frank opinion of the inefficacy of two-person occupancy of the DuoMid.

I really feel like a DuoMid with slightly wider footprint (as small as 72") would be ideal, and my calculation says it should weigh only an extra 2oz or so. It's a bit of a mystery to me why Ron choose to not make a size optimized for two people !

Oware's 8x8ft pyramid looks like it might sort of fill this niche, and I imagine my 56" pole could work with it with a small pole extender of some sort