To Rain Jacket … or … Not to Rain Jacket

I would agree except for the windshirt reference. A rain jacket is no substitute for a windshirt. If I could only have one, I'd go with the rain jacket and cope with its poor performance in you-know-what management but the thing is they're not mutually exclusive. It leaks out of every such discussion that they were when you can actually have both and use each to the best of its capabilities.

Since you are asking this question with "no rain expected", I will answer it with that in mind.

I don't really care to bring a rain jacket.
Why?

I have been dumped on with 34* rain with a rain jacket on several times and was never dry.
The reason is that I move much faster than the average hiker and don't stop when it starts to rain.
About the only time I have stayed dry while moving about 25 miles in about 8 hours in the rain was on a day when the weather was perfect for a short sleeve shirt on under my Event Jacket.
Worked great, but that was so ideal that day and have never had a repeat of that day.

Think about it this way.
It's 6pm and you're at 12,000' and it is 33* and raining (was snowing just a few minutes before).
I'm heading northbound at the top of Muir Pass (with no rain jacket), or even a jacket to speak of. In fact I have all my clothing on.
It doesn't seem like it is going to let up, but looks like there are breaks here and there if I kept going.

Do I stay and freeze to death at 12,000' or descend and at least get out of the 33* weather.
Well, I didn't even give it any thought. I wasn't going to stay there.
Made it down to Evolution lake with off and on rain, ate and went to sleep.
As soon as I laid down, it started to rain, then the rain turned into a sloop of icy rain.
It got cold (just a little) 3 hours later at 12:30am, but had stopped raining.
I got up and moved on down until sometime between 3-4am and where I went back to sleep completely out of the front, warm and comfy.

Here's the 2nd situation, same trip.

I was just past Island Pass around the last trail junction before heading over Donahue.
It was about 5-6pm started to rain. Didn't look that bad though.
Since I was heading up this time when it would get colder, I stopped.
Got under a big tree and ate. Took my time and the rain passed in 1 1/2 hours.
Not only did I not get wet, I didn't get cold.

This was with everything on. Nylon long sleeve shirt, wind shirt and top warm long sleeve.
It would have helped to have my Monbell Ex-light jacket along on that trip, but instead I added 1.5 ounces of down to my quilt when I got home.
.

.

So why bring a rain jacket if it doesn't really matter?
Remember, you are saying no expected rain.

I have never been cold and wet while moving.
I have also never had to stop while wet so still no point in having the rain jacket.
I used to bring a rain jacket all the time and no matter how much or little it has rained on me with the jacket on, I have still been just as wet, or dry, with or without the jacket.

The huge downside to wearing a rian jacket is getting that cold clammy feeling when you are wet and it's cold out.
With a synthetic jacket on, you don't have that problem. In fact you stay very warm and just need to worry about overheating.
So wearing a rain jacket while pushing in the rain is the hardest part to deal with. Wet and clammy during rain.
In a synthetic jacket, it's when it stops raining. Then you have to worry about how to dry off without getting wet and clammy.

Aaron – in my post I'm suggesting a rain jacket as a " key " piece of emergency equipment under a wide range of conditions, when things don't go as usual, or as planned.
Life is easy when things go as normal.
What if you sprain an ankle and have to slow down your speedy pace, maybe even have to bivy ?

Mid to late 1990's, I read a book about how a wind-jacket was all a fast moving dayhiker needed (which appealed to me since I was financially "Beyond Broke" to paraphrase a Jardine title after my divorce). So before the days of checking Internet forecasts, I went up into the wilderness on a blue bird day and at the top, got caught in a fast moving but heavy thunderstorm at 9,000+ ft. I ran down the mountain a few miles with lightning all around me and still got cold n'clammy in that old windshirt. I could run too being in the top 5% of runners in my military unit during physical fitness tests (back then). Just to add there's been times where I have welcomed getting wet in rain too, so perhaps temperature drop has something to do with it? My last work-weeklong trip, everyone donned rainsuits when a slushy rain started at mile 4; at the end 5 days later, … I was trying to get myself wet when we got a freezing rain in the last cpl miles to the TH.

Art

If you would to ask something that was rhetorical, why did you put

"To Rain Jacket … or … Not to Rain Jacket"

as the name of your post?

I have lived in the same place all my life. After a certain point in the year there just isn't any rain. None at all. All the native plants go into their dormant phase. The weather man tries to think up interesting new ways to report the non-weather. If it did happen to rain, it would probably feel awesome. If it became dangerous you could just put up your tent and wait it out.

I usually bring my Zpacks cuben fiber rain jacket all the time and leave the down puffy home.

I used to think that many parts of California could go from May until October with virtually no measurable rainfall. Then, just when I head up to the Sierra Nevada for a little backpacking trip, the heavens open up and I slog through rain and mud for five days.

With that thought in mind, all California backpackers ought to try to tempt fate. Go do your next trips with zero rain gear. The worst that can happen is that you get rained on, but the state needs that rain.

–B.G.–

Aaron: none of your examples included 'cold rain for four hours, followed by climbing over a pass in snow and sleet for two and a half hours, followed by six more hours in continual cold rain to the trailhead' as an example. So why bring a rain jacket? the conditions that I just described continued for three more days last summer in the Sierra. An actual front that rained and sleeted persistently for hours and hours with few breaks for days. Was not in the forecast when I set out. Hypothermia was a real possibility without rain gear. I'll never leave my rain shell at home again.

I'm with Art on this one. I've never gone on an extended hike or backpacking trip without a rain jacket.

I also never take a wind top when backpacking. While they definitely breathe better than my rain jacket, I still get soaked (from sweat) in a wind top if the temperature is any more than a degree or two above freezing.

I get that a rain jacket will make you hot and sweaty while hiking but certainly nothing like walking in a wind blown down-pour with a non-waterproof layer. I really don't get the "I get just as soaked in a rain jacket" attitude. That's not my experience and I spend a lot of time walking in the rain.

Maybe it just depends on where you live. The weather forecasts where I live can't be relied on for more than a day and once you are soaked, you could be wet for days.

I use my rain jacket for:
Rain
Wind
Warmth
While doing laundry on long hikes

It's one of the most important items I carry for comfort and for when things don't go according to plan.

I don't think there is anyone who would advocate never bringing rain gear. I think the counter argument he's presenting is not that one should not bring a rain jacket, but rather that one should be conscientious about why the rain jacket gets packed. Sure–maybe the jacket gets packed 90% of the time, but knowing the limitations of one's skills and kit as well as knowing the area are essential to no rain gear.

'What if' scenarios (like the one you presented) do little to support the argument. There are often alternatives to rain gear (i.e. wearing your tarp) that work in such situations. Clearly, rain gear would be more convenient, and would hinder your ability to travel less, but when you're caught with your pants down, knowledge and skills can get you out.

"I don't think there is anyone who would advocate never bringing rain gear. "

There have been a few conversations where that's exactly what they suggested. These conversations typically devolve into a internet screaming match with some preaching as a chaser.

As Buck mentioned, a rain shell does more than just protect me from rain and not something I'd ever consider leaving at home regardless of the forecast or the fact that I live in the desert and can go months without seeing rain.

Multiday trips in the High Sierra without rain gear? No.

Multiday trips in my local mountains or the Mojave without rain gear? Absolutely.

It all depends….location, duration, forecasts, season, etc.

Not only do I not bring rain gear on many local/desert trips, I often don't carry shelter.

I went around Mt Hood last September with just a windshirt like jacket. Weather report said no rain.

But that's unusual in Oregon and Washington

Then there was that trip I had a rain jacket. I stood under a pine tree, relatively sheltered, and was subsequently soaked to the bone. It hit hard, before we could get in the tents, and it stayed for an hour and a half. I'd used the jacket once before in a mild shower of short duration. It was nearly new.

Story of my life – I have five rain jackets. I take rain gear – I always have a trash bag, which is what I used for the rest of my long trip instead. My arms got wet but my core stayed dry. I take an emergency poncho if I expect no rain because the weather doesn't read NOAA. I take a real poncho if I expect real rain.

I expect I'll be selling or giving away a bunch of "waterproof" ahem "breathable" clothing shortly. I could use the space for things that I value.

Art

You didn't mention any examples about this either.

You simply stated talking about something you saw about a this thread was sparked by reading numerous entries on this site suggesting leaving the rain jacket at home if the weather is nice.

I was replying to what you brought up, not the most extreme situations you can put yourself into without a rain jacket, just about leaving a rain jacket at home if the weather is nice, (just as it is on your original post).

The extreme doesn't happen on hikes unless you live in areas where it is possible (again not what you are describing).

About the most extreme you can get is 33* rain.
Snow is nice.

So how does my post not apply?

Aaron – I'm not quite sure what you're saying above. I'm not going to spend my time trying to dig thru BPL archives to come up with examples.

What I am implying in this thread is that some (many ?) on this site plan their gear on a best case scenario, and that's generally not a wise thing.

When doing hybrid trail running/hiking trips May-Sep in Big Sur, I do not bring a rain jacket. If by some miracle it rained in Ventana, I would do a rain dance in joy.

SoCal trips in Summer, I do not bring a rain jacket.

When taking trips to locations I am not as familiar with, I bring a rain jacket.

In high mountains, I bring a rain jacket.

In the PNW, I bring a rain jacket.

So it's not a yes or no question. There's very few pieces of gear I ALWAYS carry anyway.

"The extreme doesn't happen on hikes unless you live in areas where it is possible (again not what you are describing)."

Which is just about everywhere in the mountains.

"About the most extreme you can get is 33* rain."

Which is plenty bad enough to kill an ordinary mortal.

"What I am implying in this thread is that some (many ?) on this site plan their gear on a best case scenario, and that's generally not a wise thing."

You're wasting your time, Art. Let the mountain gods decide who lives and who dies.

my only decision is which rain jacket to bring: if rain is very unlikely I bring one of those 1-2 ounce jobs that packs to the size of a pack of butts; if rain is unlikely I bring my 6 oz Helium II and if rain is likely, I bring my 12 oz eVENT Momentum

as there is also a fair amount of discussion on windshirts, I do bring my windshirt on every (every) trip; it gets used more than any other piece of kit I own

Here in the great Pacific Northwest, leaving your rainjacket at any time of year for the sake of saving 9oz and hiking into the Cascades instantly enters you as a contestant of the Darwin Awards.

"Here in the great Pacific Northwest, leaving your rainjacket at any time of year for the sake of saving 9oz and hiking into the Cascades instantly enters you as a contestant of the Darwin Awards."

+1 Let it be noted that, with the hordes of "noobies" inundating the area, the competition is becoming fierce. I have seen some very promising candidates on day hikes already this year, and it's only early April. A very typical scenario is wind, freezing rain at about 4,000' elevation, and young studs in flip flops, tee shirts, and Levis. I'm not joking. Just a matter of time….

"A very typical scenario is wind, freezing rain at about 4,000' elevation, and young studs in flip flops, tee shirts, and Levis. I'm not joking. Just a matter of time…."

I spent a lovely mid Sept Indian summer afternoon streched out by the OR Three Sisters loop, enjoying warm temps until late into the night and weather so dry and clear that forest fragrance hung heavily over everything.

Not 12 hours later I was desperately route finding a side trail out of a blizzard that never stopped until noon the next day, huddled in my tarp tent and pushing snow away from the sides every hour or so.

I shudder to think what would have happended without my rain shell.