Storing alcohol & alcohol stove in cook pot

I share this concern. I put my stove in a small ziploc container when putting it in my pot.

Where do you live? Another route, albeit more expensive, would be to only use Everclear in your stove. (possible in OR and WA — other states?)

I did look into Everclear as a safe solution but unfortunately I live in MA where it is illegal.

I just throw it all in my cookpot. I normally use denatured alcohol as it is cheeper than HEET unless I am on a trip where I fly in and then usually buy HEET becasue I can buy it in smaller quantities.

Personally I wouldn't worry about serious health risks about stuff like that (I know others that wont use aluminum pots or spoons) as little use as they see. Even when I was able to get out a bunch, I would still only use it ~40 days per year.

According to Wikipedia, the reference dose for methanol is 2 mg/kg/day. The EPA site says that number is for chronic oral ingestion. That makes the safe chronic dose of methanol 0.18 mL for a 70kg (154 lb) person. I couldn't find information on acute dosage, but I'm sure it's higher. That's a small amount, but it's more than you'd find in residue.

I use Klean Strip Green denatured alcohol, which according to the MSDS is less than or equal to 5% methanol. So I'm not worried at all about the trace amounts of methanol being enough to be harmful. If I was using 100% methanol, I'd think about it.

Disclaimer: I am not a chemist, doctor, or mathematician, so take my calculations with a grain of salt.

If you've ever drank wine, you've drank methanol. If you are worried about it, drink a little ethanol to flush it out of your system.

Sure. While methanol is toxic, it is not as bad as many people think. You routinely eat foods with small amounts all the time. Most veggies, fruits, etc have some methanol in them. Hell, even using a wooden toothpick will expose you to methanol (also called wood alcohol.) Did you ever squeeze an orange peel and light it? While I would certainly not suggest drinking it, but if you pot is dry when you cook, there will not be more than a normal dosage in any foods you cook.

Once the stove has flared out, there will be less than a normal dose left. As the remaining alcohol evaporates and burns, it heats the metal slightly, forcing more heat, forcing more evaporation, etc… That last fraction of a second often results in an increased flame, hence the phrase "flared out". It is also very volatile, meaning it will quickly evaporate into the air at anything above -100F or so (I seem to remember about -140F is the freezing point.) That means that any remaining alcohol in your stove will evaporate unless it is sealed in a bag.

Hmmmm….let me look it up and post a link here. Everyone is always talking about the extreme toxicity without looking anything up….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ershdb/emergencyresponsecard_29750029.html
http://www.epa.gov/airtoxics/hlthef/methanol.html

Mitchell,

I was looking at Klean Strip Green denatured alcohol as an alternative because of it's ethanol content. My only concern was the soot that might be produced. Have you had any problems with that or does it burn relatively clean?

Thanks

James,

Thanks for the info. I did read up about it on Wikipedia and saw the reference to fruit but I think my main concern was not knowing how much residue would remain in the stove after burn out. If I'm already ingesting a certain amount of Methanol a day I didn't really want to risk adding to the daily dosage. I think your explanation of flare out makes me feel better about it though. I just didn't like the thought of residue building up every time I stored my stove into my pot and then refilling the pot with water, boiling it and then drinking it. Searching the various threads also didn't help with how bad everyone makes it sound.

Ernesto, James Marco knows his stuff. By the time an alcohol stove cools down all the fuel has evaporated. Put your stove in a Ziploc baggie for psychological insurance ;)

It would be nice for James to comment on esbit in another thread ;)

It burns pretty clean. I did notice a tiny bit of soot the other day for the first time, but if that's your concern you can easily fix it by mixing in a little water (do this at camp, of course, so you're not carrying the weight). That will slow down the burn just enough to let it finish combustion.

Hiya Zelph! I don't know that much about esbit. I went through about a dozen packages 10 years ago, but really hated the smell and mess for testing.

I agree with many here that pure methanol and ethanol in and of themselves are not that toxic unless relatively large amounts are ingested directly.
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Lab workers regularly use them CLEANING AGENTS in lab environments and compared to the other TRULY toxic stuff they handle, the various pure alcohols are not much of a big deal.

The problem as I see it for a backpacker storing stove fuel and components is three fold.

1) In storing stoves, some stoves are made with components that have resins ,pigments and other nasty components on them and when they burn and char the residue on them is not something I would want inside my cookware, especially if cooking for others.

2) The various denatured alcohol blends (even the "green" ones ),ARE denatured, which is a polite marketing term for POISONED. The denaturants (Tolueenes etc) are pretty nasty.. Again, not something I would want in my cookware if I could avoid it.

3) Practical space considerations..Unless you are carrying REALLY small bottles of fuel, most of them will not fit in a cookpot anyway. Certainly none of the 4 and 8 oz bottles will.

My system is to take a 4 oz or larger round plastic fuel bottle and wrap my windscreen and stove floor around it. I cover that with a peice of Tyvek withba rubber band around it to prevent any snagging . If I am stowing that inside my pack , I usually put that in a ziplock in case of any leaks. If it is stowed in an outside pocket, I migbt skip the Ziplock.

To me, the inside of a cookpot is better used as space to stow cups, bowls and eating utensils etc. At most, the only stove components I put in my pot are my lighter and my stove burner in a ziplock. Many times they will go in the Ziplock with the fuel bottle ,if the burner is stoutly made or slips over the fuel bottle.

So it basically still only breaks down into two basic peices in my pack. My fuel bottle /windscreen assembly and my cookpot.. No "bits" floating around ..

You'll probably pour a little bit of alcohol on your fingers sooner or later and thus absorb it through the skin. The amount of residue, if there even is any, from storing the stove in your pot will be a minute fraction of what you're going to absorb accidentally through your skin (or lungs breathing the fumes.)

I'm not a fan of Methanol, but the one good thing about yellow Heet is that it is almost pure Methanol and doesn't have any other adulterants. Pure Methanol evaporates very quickly and doesn't leave any residue. Being pure Methanol also means that there won't be any water left behind in the stove after burning out. The problem with denatured Ethanol is that there is no good way of knowing what it was denatured with and whether it will leave a residue. I am less concerned about fuel residue in my cook kit than I am about a fuel leak contaminating my food.