gtx paclite vs gtx pro waterproof duration

http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7988965

Question:
Hello, I live just across the border in Port Angeles, WA. Back in September I was on a multi-day hike with your Alpha SL jacket. Anyway, on the 3rd day, we awoke to what turned out to be record rainfall. Our hike was a moderate 4 miles climbing 2k feet (mid-week rest day). Anyway, I was soaked head to toe after the hike, even while wearing the jacket. So, I guess I'm emailing you to see if this is normal. If my torso was soaked due to sweat, or perhaps the coat wasn't performing as I'd hoped. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. I'm a huge fan of your gear and am looking at getting the Gamma LT for my soft shell. Thanks.

;)

Thanks. informative, but not sure it answers my question.
Seems to be mostly a reply about moisture due to heat/sweat buildup.

Perhaps I didn't write it down clear enough but for this question I am only concerned with water coming in through the outside. Not about exertion levels and heat and relative breathability of the two.

Last paragraph seems to be more general but still think it links or points to the rest of their answer?

Breathable shells will all leak after some time in the rain. The time will vary between 1-4 hours. I use a cheap, fully waterproof jacket that does not leak. It weighs about 6oz, but it doesn't breath well. After 4 hours I get just as wet from sweat three season hiking as from a Goretex shell. I gave up on these after some experimentation about 10 years ago. They are simply not worth the price. When it is that warm, I don't bother to use a rain jacket. It is more used as a cold weather/wind jacket.

Did some googling and paclite has the same hydrostatic head (waterproofness rating) as goretex pro shell.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/202401-Gore-Tex-specs
that thread is a few years old.

Now that we are on the subject of goretex, anyone have experience with goretex active shell? I can get pro deals through marmot. Looking at the Nano AS jacket. Would rather go with pro shell but nothing available that's lightweight.

No experiance with the GT Active membrane but STP has a Haglofs Gram Comp Pro pullover for $299 that steems like a good jacket. It is listed at 8oz and I have the previous version the Haglofs Ozo Pullover (GT Packlite 7.5oz) and it is a great shell.

They seem to have all sizes but the colors are out there.

I think GT Active Shell is 3 layer and supposed to be "air permiable" and a response to Polartec's Neo Shell. GT Pro is also a 3 layer fabric but normally laminated to a more durable fabric and isn't significantly more breathable than standard GT.

Both forms of GTX will be durable. Maybe the Paclite will wear out first, having fewer laminates but my Padlite parka is going strong after 5 years of 4 season use.

The real question is which is most breathable? And the answer to that is GTX Pro – by quite a bit.

Are you sure Pro Shell is more breathable? Gore Tex Active is marketed as the most breathable Gore Tex on the market.

I think Gore Tex Active is the most breathable

Gore Tex Pro is the most durable (but heavy)

Both are full 3 layer products.

Thanks Justin – for focussing on the question.

Still the question of this thread is length of being waterproof, not breathability – if people don't mind (?).

From Justin's thread it seems all gtx membranes are rated 28.000.
Since it seems that figure comes from a static water column, I was wondering if that is a good way to actually measure how long a fabric can sustain rain on a lower level pressure.

To put my question another way –
Let's say we are in Japan on a ridge, not moving because we are impaired and have no shelter. No breathability comes into the mix. You can substitute Japan for the Scottish highlands or the Pacific North West if necessary.
Take a solid sustained rain at near zero ˚C for the next 24 hours.

My question is about which membrane would hold out the longest?
Is hydrostatic head in reality a good test to answer that question – if so Justin's figure suggests any GTX membrane performs equal. But again, not sure if taking a water column to create pressure to failure point answers that?

Thanks for any thoughts.

IMO – any of the Gore Tex membranes would be suffecent in that condition but the outer fabric's DWR would be the limiting condition.

Hydrostatic head doesn't really work like that. It's just the amount of pressure necessary for water to force its way through a fabric. Time of exposure is essentially irrelevant – so long as the pressure never exceeds the HH, the fabric won't leak from the outside.

WPB jackets rarely let in water from the outside at all unless something is wrong (bad seam sealing etc) or the fabric is truly inferior (doesn't apply to Goretex).
What does happen over prolonged exposure is the DWR "wets out" (meaning rain no longer beads off) and the wet-out areas are no longer breathable *at all* because the water on the fabric acts like a barrier to your evaporated sweat. So even with minimal or no exertion you begin to feel damp in those areas from your own sweat. A lot of people mistake this for the jacket "leaking." This is not the case. It just seems like it is because you get wet in the areas that are also the most wet on the outside.

Thanks.
That's what I was hoping.
In that case I will stay with the lighter and cheaper paclite, and repair or replace when necessary.
To be clear – About being wet from inside and mistaking for leaking was never unclear. That was partly why I wanted to leave breathability out of it.

del

I know, perhaps my scenario is not so well chosen. I was just trying to get a comparison between the two gtx membranes.
Valid point though, it also will vary from jacket to jacket design.

del

I have a hybrid-style hardshell, mostly Paclite and on the shoulders regular 3-ply GTX XCR.
In all those years since I bought it (2004), it never leaked despite some heavy use (including use with 40 lbs. backpacks or glissade-exercises). Breathability (particularly the sleeves that were in Paclite) was and still is poor. Therefore, I will never get something in Paclite again.

"I think GT Active Shell is 3 layer and supposed to be "air permiable" and a response to Polartec's Neo Shell. GT Pro is also a 3 layer fabric but normally laminated to a more durable fabric and isn't significantly more breathable than standard GT"

Active isn't air permeable and just much thinner then other 3-ply laminates (new method to attach the backer via heat (no glue) to the PU (backer integrates with the PU)). Pro is air permeable (different assymetric PTFE-layers so no need anymore for a PU kiss).
What is the most breathable ? Some say Active, others Pro and now there's regular GTX with the new C-Knit backer (with the RET ,according to Gore, from Active < 3, Pro >3 and C-Knit between 2 and 3, without C-Knit < 6 and Paclite = 4; but does that tell everything and even with the former Pro Shell with a supposed RET of 5,1 or lower, one jacket was tested independently as having an RET of 3,1 ?).