Assistance getting into fly fishing

[Lachlan Fysh]

Hi,

I've long thought about getting more serious with fishing while hiking, inspired largely by the "why not?" low weights of tenkara gear. However, I've never been previously into fly fishing and found the idea of starting cold a bit daunting. I've done a bit of bait casting, but that's where my fishing experience ends.

Fortunately my infinitely cool girlfriend had the inspired idea to go fly fishing while we were in Mendoza recently (forgoing a second full day drinking wine). We had a cracking time and importantly both caught several fish – nothing large, but fish! :)

Obviously this was with western fly fishing gear, and having now researched a bit more I realise we were nymphing, which was probably the right way to go as it was cold with few bugs around doing much of anything.

I now want to take this further at home, but I'm struggling between whether to buy the 'simple' tenkara setup or just learn with western gear – I kind of liked the ability to adjust the line length to adapt the cast and I didn't find it overly complex, but then we weren't going for long casts and we were using weighted nymphs. I also found the 9 foot rod kind of a 'sensible' length and was wondering how something like ~12 foot would be.. but I guess I'd adjust…

So for the absolute beginner planning on fishing Australia creeks and rivers (if that changes anything) would you say tenkara will be a good starting point or should I just suck up the extra weight while I learn the ropes?

[James Marco]

Mostly, I would say stick with your standard western rig until you are ready to shed weight and sacrifice versatility.

Tenkara fishing is primarily for smaller rivers & streams, *or*, around a 30' casting distance. About 3/4 of your fish will be hooked in that distance, anyway. This is good. You will catch a lot of fish in the 7-12" category. A bad thing is the bigger fish. A 15" trout can snap off a size 12 fly on a 4 pound tippet. And the tiny wets, nymps and drys of the summer months, (size 16 and smaller) are difficult without some working line, though. The longer rods of Tenkara fishing help a lot, but they are limited.

But, if you are an UL hiker headed out for a week of fishing, a Tenkara set up works well. 50 flies and a rig will weigh 10-12oz, whereas a western rig will weigh about 2-3lb. Obviously, a huge weight advantage. Just be prepared to loose an occasional large fish with a tenkara rig.

Most of the streams and waters I fish in the ADK's are heavily scrubbed over, looking more like a tunnel than an open stream. Lake shores look like a birds nest, with many, many blow downs falling out of a heavy forest. You already noticed that a 9' rod can be a problem getting a fly out. Sometimes, I use a short 6'6" rod simply because I cannot cast in these places. The most versatile rod I use is a 7'6" Brook Trout rod for general fly fishing, though. A 9' rod 8wt or 9wt is mostly used for steelhead in fall and winter. (They will often run 150-200' of line out…NOT tenkara territory.) For lakes, I use an old 8' fiberglass rod. It just supplies better action on streamers. But streamers can be used on most anything, really. In the west, many lakes have rocky shores, so, the rods tend to be longer because there is room to cast. Not sure what the back country of Australia looks like.

[R Y]

I found tenkara pretty simple to deal with, and in the summer in the High Sierra it worked pretty well, even at most of the lakes I'd been to. This past July I read a few books on the subject, bought an outfit from Tenkara USA, and went on a three day trip with it. It's been a lot of fun, and there's a lot of info out there on it these days.

In November I also picked up a keiryu rod (kind of like a tenkara rod, but longer and stiffer) from tenkarabum dot com and have used it to catch some decent sized trout on weighted beadhead nymphs in one of the rivers open during the winter here. But I've used small beadheads to catch creek trout on a tenkara rod too.

This past winter I started dabbling with western fly fishing and have found the learning curve to be daunting, primarily the casting. Probably I have difficulty due to an old neurological impairment (spinal injury), but in the near term I suspect the casting range advantage of western gear will be minimal, for me anyway. I've been taking a casting class offered by a local club and they say it takes a long time to be good at it. Fly fishing seems to be a very nice hole to pour money into, should one be so inclined. YMMV

[Marc Shea]

An alternative, and somewhat easier, would be to fly fish with a spinning rod, using the bubble float method. This gives you the option to use flies or lures, and requires less room for back casting, which is an advantage at bodies of water surrounded by a lot of brush. There is less learning curve, less cost, and you can still maintain low weight.

Here is an example of the setup.

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/bubble.htm

[Adam Klags]

In order to answer, it would be important to know where you would be fishing – and more importantly, what kinds of rivers and for what fish?

If you're looking for all around fishing, likely choose a Western fly setup with reel. If you're doing medium and big river fishing and trying to catch big fish specifically, DEFINITELY start with a western setup. However, if you are looking to fish small streams, and where size of fish caught doesn't matter, then you should consider tenkara.

Whatever you do, please don't buy a Patagonia/Orvis entry level tenkara kit. Do some research and hit up someone selling quality rods… either Chris at Tenkarabum, Daniel at Tenkara USA, or one of the other reputable smaller companies/rod dealers out there.

Tenkara is amazingly fun but its not best for every circumstance.

[Lachlan Fysh]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Sounds like western is the safer bet… but having thought about it a bit more I'm leaning towards tenkara simply because I'm locking in an extended trip to Patagonia again at the end of the year and would like to be able to bring fishing gear without feeling guilty if don't end up fishing that much…

To the points about tenkara's limitations – this is a concern for sure… Australia isn't very mountainous and it's definitely more of a lakes and rivers place rather than mountain streams… but I can be sensible in choosing fishing spots. My question is how much are different rods 'tuned' to different conditions within a given length and weight etc?

To ask this in a less roundabout way, I had been thinking the Nissin starter kit from tenkara bum in 360cm 7:3 seemed sensible, but I'm worried it's geared more to mountain streams than a perhaps more generalist setup like the Tenkara USA Iwana and might now be that practical if I did find myself on a small river… Is this a valid concern or will the Japanese made quality win out? (MIJ is a selling point for me).

And finally – if I do fish in a place with too powerful fish they'll just take my fly and some tippet right? I can put up with this and learn from my mistakes… but if I'm snapping rod tips routinely I'll be a bit frustrated (and broke)

[Adam Klags]

Hey dude, based on your response, let's get a little deeper into this. From what you're saying I think it might help to "talk through it out loud" here instead of just in your head… I'm all for recommending Tenkara to people, but for the right applications.

Let's be clear… you "can" fish tenkara almost anywhere. The real question, is "where will tenkara be beneficial or better for fishing" and not "where can I make tenkara work for me."

Fishing, like UL backpacking, involves gear. And as we all know, there's no one pack for every circumstance, and no one sleeping bag for every season, right?

Same holds true for Tenkara.

Please go into some detail on the following so we can give advice that will actually help you:

1)Are you primarily fishing rivers or lakes and ponds?

2)Are you fishing lakes and ponds from a boat or from shore?

3)What size rivers do you want to fish? (Feel free to name a few that aren't your "secrets.")

4) What kinds of fish and what size fish are you aiming to catch?

This will help determine how useful Tenkara will be, vs. how LIMITING tenkara will be for you. I just got back from fishing in Japan with some Tenkara experts. I've fished tenkara for 4 seasons now. Haven't picked up a reel in that time. But where I fish has become rather specific, and is the main factor behind all of this.

Tenkara is not for fishing everywhere. It has limitations, as well as major benefits. Let's see where your needs fall before we recommend something solidly or not.

[James Marco]

Well, Tenkara rods *are* delicate. Any decent fly rod is, of course. A broken tip happens, but it isn't with any greater frequency than another style (unless the segment joins are screwed up.)

A 7:3 is a bit more "tippy" than I care for and the light weight means you won't have momentum to account for while setting the hook, though the additional length will make it seem that way. Good and bad, I have a tendency to strike a little hard/fast and prefer the whole rod to help cushion the tippet. For tenkara fishing a squashed barb or barbless hook can give you better strike control. Don't forget the leverage on a 12' rod. This will make the fish seem larger than they actually are. Also, it will make the 7oz or rod/line feel like a pound. If you are near a store, check out both a 7:3 and 6:4.

The softer rod also gives you a little more constant pressure on the fish, ie, the entire rod bends more evenly giving you an extra couple feet playing room with the fish. Sometimes this can save you making the quick shuffle downstream chasing after a bigger fish. This is somewhat adjustable depending on your line/tippet length and fly size.

I typically catch most fish on a size 14-20 hook. With tenkara fishing, I don't think the little flies are very useful on 12-14" trout. A smaller tie on a size 14 would likely work nearly as well as a size 16, though. Or a larger tie on a size 10 will let you set the hook easily. 10,12,14 is likely the range you will want to use.

I have had several students loose larger fish on smaller flies by snubbing them without leaving the rod room to flex. (If I am using a bubble/casting set up, I never use a size 16. The drag caused by the bubble can dislodge the hook.) Anyway, tenkara fishing is all about fish control. Use the flex of the rod to work the fish, don't point the rod at him. Your goal is to have a smoothly curved rod with the butt pointed at the fish when you apply pressure. You compensate with the angle of the butt and your hand. Never give ground by dropping the rod tip or "bowing" to him.

Good Luck!

[Adam Klags]

Hey Lachlan, any more thoughts here? I was checking back to see if you made and decisions or to see if you wanted to talk it out any more?

[Greg Mihalik]

A minor observation –

Tenkara rod "tips" get broken by car doors, trees, poor technique when collapsing the last segments, or poor technique when the fish is at your feet (don't point the rod at the sky… grab the line and land them by hand or net).

A big fish and/or fast water will straighten out those first three segments and drive the force into the lower segments. Then if the force is too great, your (appropriately sized) tippet will break*.

Has Anyone broken one of the first three segments while fighting a fish?

* [Editorial: Please fish barbless hooks so those break-offs are only a minor inconvenience versus a death threat.]

[Lachlan Fysh]

Hey guys,

Thanks again for the feedback… I've sat on this a while as it basically started getting cold in Australia and I got distracted.. but I've just had a bit of a windfall and have about $300 of Amazon vouchers to spend – I'm thinking that maybe this is a nice little splurge to use it for.. But that doesn't answer the Tenkara vs Western question :)

I'll re-iterate I'm not a fisherman, so a lot of the questions are a bit of a guess in terms of what I might be fishing and hence my desire for a bit of an all rounder… I can say this though

-I'll be looking for streams a rivers, and being from Australia this will be more of your wider slower flowing types than proper mountain streams
-I will be fishing from the shore
-I've read of Australian trout being pretty fat and lazy.. but this is anecdotal
-Whatever I buy should ideally extend to use in Patagonia at the end of the year when I'm planning a lazy 6 week jaunt around the southern parts of Chile

The final point above probably recommends Tenkara on weight considerations, but I also may just not end up bringing anything on that trip and focus on the walking so a heavier Western rig might work out…

[Yuri R]

Although I'm biased on the topic due to the fact that I sell tenkara gear, i still think it's the right choice for the intended use.

If you were going to deep or cast far, then i would recommend either western setup or spin-casting all together. However, for slower streams and rivers Tenkara is hard to beat. Especially if the river is not big/wide, but more of a shallow mountain type.

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