Andrew Skurka – Core Clothing

I really enjoyed reading this. I didn't agree with everything 100% but you could tell he put a lot of thought (and experiance) into his choices. Despite the "blow up" on here about him selling out, he only mentions a few Sierra Designs peices.

Even back when he was sponsored by Golite and could get anything Golite for free he didn't have an all Golite gear list. Of course occasionally I would see a peice of Golite Gear that he modified and thought he used it becasue it was free and the better piece was much more expensive (one example being his makeshift vapor barrier on the Alaska trip). I think he honestly tries to give the best advice that he can and has the potential to help SD bring some good products to market.

interesting that he has moved away from the venerable windshirt

I think his Windshirt philosophy is particularly driven by decision for trips more than a couple of nights when you can't accurately forecast weather. At that point, once you are committed to bring adequate rain gear, then why would you also bring a separate wind shirt. My thought, and I replied as such on his post, was that for day trips and short backpacking trips I think the windshirt is a winner because you have a pretty good idea of whether to plan for rain. In addition, where I hike in Colorado, rain is typically short lived and something I can take temporary shelter from and wait it out

Jennifer,

His Core Clothing Go Suit — Item 3: Bug Shirt is an arbitrary name for functionally equivalent to a windshirt. I tested his recommended Ex Officio bug shirt at 62 CFM.

David's take:

http://bedrockandparadox.com/2015/03/21/skurkas-core-13/

Richard- what's CFM stand for? Thanks.

I agree with Randy about the extra weight of a wind shirt.

Why carry a wind shirt that will NOT keep rain off you when you can take a good WPB rain parka (I like my REI Kimtah eVent parka) and use it for both wind and rain?

Jack,

Cubic Feet per Minute which is the imperial measure of air permeability.

"Why carry a wind shirt that will NOT keep rain off you when you can take a good WPB rain parka (I like my REI Kimtah eVent parka) and use it for both wind and rain?"

I think there are situations where using a rain jacket/parka in lieu of a windshirt makes a lot of sense. For me and the area where I hike, windshirts are great in that 30-50F temperature range. Humidity and hiking speed quickly over power my rain jacket and a windshirt keeps up much better. Below 30F and it starts getting cold enough that it doesn't matter which I use. If I were doing an epic Skurka-like journey I might leave the wind shirt at home just for simplicity.

Ryan

Richard, I can always rely on you to provide scientific data when any discussion about clothing appears on BPL, and I continue to be grateful for this.

So it would seem on my next trip north to Lapland, I have a choice of 3 items

Montbell Tachyon
Rab Boreas 2011
Ex Offcio Bug shirt

Each of these garments to varying extents will block wind, whilst the Ex Officio shirt may also reduce the impact of the "Lapland airforce". So maybe the windshirt is redundant and all I need is the bug shirt or I take the Tachyon as the bugs are some what challenged when it comes to biting through the fabric. Clothing choice is always a conundrum, but given your table I am more inclined to an Ex Offcio shirt as it provides bug protection, wind resistance and a multiplicity of wearing variations that a windshirt doesn't.

Food for thought, thanks.

I'm having a hard time right now with my clothing selections for my Colorado Trail thru this july and this exact question is a big one for me this time. i do wear my Rab Cirrus quite a bit – but I'm not sure I'd be just fine with something else. I wear it to hike in first thing in the am when it's chilly – but not for very long. Could I just use my Marmot Essence for those few minutes?

I also wear it in the evenings at camp – but that's when I could put on my puffy, my second, sleeping shirt (maybe a cap4? cap2?) so does the wind shirt really add anything then?

So despite the fact that it is an article of clothing that I do wear every day, I'm just not sure if i couldn't accomplish the same thing with other items of clothing I know I HAVE to bring (a rain jacket) or that I know I WANT to bring (dry sleep shirt).

I find it odd that folks gnash their teeth about the breathability of various windshirts and then actually,convince themselves that a TRULY rain worthy rainjacket will breath as a good windshirt.

For most 3 season use I'd use a Silnylon or Cuben poncho/tarp at 6oz. Then a good windshirt for another 2 to 3 oz.

Such a combo will be-

A better wind abatement system .

A more waterproof and breathable rain setup with better coverage.

Has the bonus of provinding a backup tarp / groundcloth ,etc.

All for 8 to 9 oz .

You won't find a rain jacket that does all that as well as the ponchilo windshirt combo for less weight.

The only thing a poncho gives up is STYLE. If you care about how your look ratber on the trail than staying dry for less weight, then by all means, wear a rain jacket.

If you want to stay dry, wear a poncho.

And, if you stop and think about it,on most hikes, style only comes into play in town. Many windshirts look stylish and block rain well enough moving from building to building in town during resupply, that most hikers will never miss their rain jackets. And, if you carry a UL umbrella for the sun, then the rain jacket us missed even LESS in the rain in town.. Unless of course, umbrellas are not sylish enough either..:)

Seriously,I love rain coats at home ,but on a backpacking trip where weight vs utility matters, the windshirt/poncho beats it. Throw in the UL umbrella for added sun/rain protection, and it's not even debateable,IMO.

the most functional approach to a successful layering system is a set of very specialized items that can work together. Multi-functioning, tempting as it may seem, is usually a bad idea, both functionally and from a weight perspective.

The windshirt role is beyond the capabilities of the waterproof garments as much as the waterproofness is beyond the capabilities of a windshirt. Take both (and wear the waterproofs only when it really rains)

…for 8 to 9 oz .

Jimmer: to speak about weight around here is now passé, so UL can mean anything, any weight for the past cpl of years. Just to add, tried ponchos in both the military (still issued) and then again in civilian backpacking – I tend to sweat too much in one (Mediterranean sweat glands despite the surname). If it works for others, more power to them.

+1 Jimmer. I am in the poncho + wind shirt camp having given up on anything marketed as "waterproof/breathable". I must admit I have almost pulled the trigger on the lightweight Packa a couple of times but a poncho is more versatile as ground or head cover and I am a dork anyway so I don't care how I look….I survived the styles of the 60's and the 70's – a billowing poncho is tre' chic!

I've tried various ponchos. My biggest complaint against them is that, at least the ones I've tried, tend not to work with my 5'6" height very well. Taller people I know seem to like them, though.

Again, that's just me.

"Seriously,I love rain coats at home ,but on a backpacking trip where weight vs utility matters, the windshirt/poncho beats it. Throw in the UL umbrella for added sun/rain protection, and it's not even debateable,IMO."

I can debate your statement. Let's see, here are the weights of my items, all of which are GoLite products:

Windshirt 5.4 oz.
Poncho/tarp (there are lighter ponchos out there though) 7.2 oz.
Umbrella (Chrome Dome) 6.2 oz.

Total weight 18.8 oz.

Compare that with this:

Windshirt 5.4 oz.
Malpais WP/B hooded jacket 8.0 oz.

Total weight of the two items 13.4 oz.

Add a pair of Reed pants at 6.0 oz. and it's 19.4 oz. for full-body bomber rain protection, with a bonus windshirt.

Geez. You guys are going heavy. I never take any windshirt. I carry a rain parka shell jacket and rain pants. The weights are 4.5 ounces and 2.4 ounces. If the rain parka isn't breathing enough, I pull the bottom of it up to mid-chest. That way, real rain is still shed from my head and shoulders, but the excess heat and sweat can exit below.

–B.G.–

Which as you know is a basic tenet of lightweight backpacking???

Rain shells suck as windshirts..Most of them suck as raingear, too;)

Your rain parka and pants are not much good as auxuliary tarps /groundcloths,packcovers or sunshields,either..

The real range of uses for your raingear is pretty narrow. Pretty extragavant use of weight.

Debate away.

PS..
Actually, I would add the windshirt/ poncho would be my choice fir Summer conditions with moderate rain. If I was travelling somewhere like the Pacific NW or Coastal AK during monsoon seasons ,I'd pack the extra rain gear ,too. In those environments, I'll take the "belt and suspenders" approach to staying warm and dry.

A good series of articles. Works for him. May not work for everyone else. Mine is similar, but I use a wind shirt. Dogs, children and mosquitos don’t like me, so a bug shirt is not necessary. Good campsite location and DEET work. I have not hiked in Alaska or Minnesota, so a bug shirt might be needed.

Here is what I use (go midway down the article). This stuff has been my mainstay for several years, so I don’t go researching clothes. I don’t buy new items, unless it is an exact replacement.

YMMV.

I could see a beefed up poncho tarp like the Gatewood cape in certain situations, … if it were somewhat customizable (not a fan of the arm holes which seem to be unsecurable, ditferent height) … and offered in cuben fiber with taped seams.

Just thinking about the current windshirt thread and lamenting the loss of breathability from the past front runners. The new ones either breathe far less or weigh 20% more – why buy from a major manufacturer or big box?

Ed: br

Luke's UL is an option also. He does wind shirts from Argon 90/67 which has tested to be quite breathable. In the 45/65cfm range if I remember correctly. They should run in the 2-3oz range.

Ryan

A windshirt is a very simple thing. There will always be options. Now they've become popular even mass-market outdoor stores carry their own branded ones. Besides, running and cycling stores/sections usually carry them and have probably done well before backpacking took notice.

I'm not fully aware of current market options but there is always some Microlight and Quantum Pertex ones available, which are both great fabrics for simple, lightweight windshirts. Rab and Montane usually carry something like that. In a worst case scenario, get some Momentum and a pattern, a windshirt is as simple as a top can be.