Zpacks “Arc Haul – Zip” in Cuben first impressions

Glad that you got your Arc Haul in…mine comes in tomorrow. From previous arc blasts, I knew that I didn't like the side compression system with the cord…so I had zpacks use two compression straps per side like you can add as an option on the zero.

I did notice that you got a lumbar pad with the arc haul hipbelt. Have you tried the pack without the lumbar pad? I was thinking that the padded hipbelt would be enough that I wouldn't need a lumbar pad…

Oh, and did you notice any slipping of the new shoulder strap system?

Hey John,

Actually I didn't mean to order the lumber pad with the Haul version. I forgot to ask to remove it after changing to Haul.
I was skeptical about it, but after using it with and without, my back feels better with it. it give some more space from the backpack and it doesn't absorb much sweat. Also I believe it gives better lumber support. but that I'll know for sure when I do longer trips with heavier weight.

About the straps – they feel like ULA's to me. I Didn't feel major slipping at all.I had 14~ lb in the pack today so it's probably doesn't count. I will check it more thoroughly next hike.

/me doing a dance that somebody has bought a ZIP!!!

I love the simplicity of a plain roll-top bag, but this has got me drooling! ;^o

Yeah… when does Joe sleep?

What makes you think that Joe sleeps? Evidence indicates otherwise :)

John A, you should be dancing a tad more.

I've been introducing a buddy of mine to UL over the last 2 years. We hiked SEKI last year and this year (God willing) Glacier. I've been talking to him a lot about what gear to go from his traditional to UL and a few weeks ago he pulled the trigger on a monster order from Joe that included a Triplex and an Arc Zip. He said he really preferred the function over a top loader.

@Idan

Oh, could you let us know the weight of the pack itself? I.e., is it 26 oz alone or 26 oz with the lumbar pad, hipbelt pocket, etc?

It's a bit hard to tell from the photos how sturdy the side 'poles' are that add structure to this pack. (Or are these beefier stays?). It almost seems to look like a stripped down external in this regard… How well does the pack transfer weight off shoulders onto the hips?

@JohnAbela – I know you have much credit on the Zip existence. thanks for all the hard work and enthusiasm to make it happen. I read your review about it and it helped to make the decision.

@JohnJonas – remove 2 oz from the total weight if you want without features (Except haul upgrades).

@jeffrey – would you like more pictures with zoom on the stays? From the minimal use I had, I can tell it transfer the weight well, but walking 6 miles with 14 pounds is not enough to make a statement.

Hey all,

I just wanted to jump in on this a bit more than my above enthusiastic post.

I have been rather vocal about the zpacks arc frame having a max weight load, for me, of around 16 pounds. Well below the 30 pounds that zpacks recommends for a max load.

I do have one of these new Arc Haul packs. Got mine as a ZIP and in Dyneema X fabric. It really is a thing of beauty.

For me, pretty much any TPW that is over 25 pounds sucks. Not that I am a wimp, not that I cannot handle it, rather because I have just been at such lower weights for the last few years that going up 2x or more in TPW just, well, it just sucks. So the Arc frame was already pushing my personal limits of a pain-free hike.

Last year when I was heading out to do my Mojave trail hike I was initially going to use my Arc Zip but the TPW I was having due to the amount of water was just pushing the Arc frame beyond what worked for me. So I switched over to the SMD Fusion. But it, sadly, seemed to have volume sizing issues (as has been discussed here on BPL a fair bit) so I had to expand its volume by attaching some zpacks multipacks onto it in order to get enough volume. Rumor mill seems to be saying smd fixed that in the next version that should be out here really soon, hopefully that rumor is true. Anyway, I found the support system of the SMD Fusion to be truly exceptional for loads in the 30+ pound range.

Fast forward to the new Arc Haul that I just got. I have loaded it up with 31.4 pounds (TPW) and I have to say that the changes ZPacks has made with this new “Haul” backpack really have solved a lot of the issues that I and others have had with the Arc frame not being able to handle heavier loads. (see my ‘pros/cons’ of the regular Arc frame here.).

The change to the hip belt means it is no longer a free-floating frame. This was priority #1 for them to solve this issue IMVHO. In my initial use of the Haul it seems to have solved a lot of the issue, which is really good. It is going to take long term testing by a lot of thru-hikers to determine what kind of issues this new method is going to cause on the structural integrity of the bottom flat carbon fiber support. Will having the hip belt directly attached to it cause it to stress and fracture? Will the cross bar eventually loosen up the pockets that hold them (due to body motion)? These are issues that were not issues with the free-floating design that will now need to be watched. I highly doubt they will be issues, but something that over the next hiking season or two as thru-hikers put on tens of thousands of miles on this new backpack, will hopefully report back (here on BPL) as we get some serious mileage on this new design. I do want to say that the full wrap-around hip belt is a really really nice change. Significantly more comfortable. No longer being two pieces sewn into the body of the pack. And, it means no more lumbar pads that have to be bought as add-ons. (I had to have two of them on my original arc zip)

The changes to the shoulder straps, still trying to wrap my head around what they have done… going to have to share my thoughts on it later on.

But the really big important issue here, is of course the max-load weight before it starts hurting you. Nothing worse than a backpack that hurts your shoulders, hurts your neck, hurts your lower back muscles, and so forth.

What I can say at this point in time is that this is the most comfortable backpack that I have used, made by ZPacks, at loads above the 20 pound range.

Yes, the lovely 3D mesh is an awesome change – I’ve been wanting to see them go this route for years. Yes, the shoulder straps are much more comfortable at the new thickness and quasi-s-j shape. Yes, the hip belt is more comfy with extra foam and 3D mesh. All these things back the pack comfy.

But it still all comes down to (a) load distribution, and (b) fabric stress compression.

At this point in time for me, which is pretty much next to nothing in regards to mileage, it does seem to be that ZPacks has been able to make this new Arc Haul be able to handle those higher load weights.

If you are looking at buying either the arc or the haul for a thru-hike, I absolutely recommend going with this new Haul. The weight difference between the two versions are totally worth it, for those long sections with lots of food and/or water.

I could see ZPacks doing away with their existing Arc Blast and making this new Haul their primary backpack. An extra 7 ounces of weight to be able to know you can carry a heavier load and not suffer shoulder/neck/back problems… well duh, that is a no brainer. Super comfy, a great step forward to zpacks fixing load distribution issues, and hey, I’m sure you can order it in a ZIP version, and what’s not to like about that!! :-D

Idan, this is a beauty of a pack – hope it takes you on some great adventures. Thank you, really appreciate you posting the description and pics, as this is the first Zpacks pack I could consider. Even if not carrying a heavy load I appreciate the support, comfort and added durability of a pack like this over the Blast. I tried loaded Arc Blasts belonging to other members and found them very uncomfortable even at 15-20 lbs especially with a bear can. And not durable enough for me especially given the cost.

@John A, do you have any idea when the new SMD Fusion 65 and 50 will be out and what changes are being made?

Packs currently on my short list: Elemental Horizons Kalais and Aquilo, new SMD Fusion 65 and Zpacks Haul (noting of course that the EH and SMD Fusion packs are a bit heavier but very solid load haulers).

I don't think zpacks weight capacities are very accurate personally at least accurate in comparison to comfort, I also found the load with an arc blast to be quite uncomfortable when I started to get above 20lbs.

I own a lot of zpacks stuff (sleeping bag, rain suit, countless stuff sacks, zip wallet, etc). The one thing I sadly can't get behind is their arc blast (despite how much I want to), and I understand it may work just fine for most people of average height, but take this as warning for tall folks like myself (6'4") the design it quite flawed in my opinion. The suspension is different between various torso sized models.

notice how here on Joe the top frame bar is above the shoulder strap:

Now for the taller/Tallest torso length setups the top support bar is under the top shoulder straps (in 23" & 24" torso lengths, maybe others I don't know), so under weight the straps push the top bar and frame into your back and with it the line-locs that keep the mesh back taught. I tried playing with it to move the line-locs up and down but for me they pressed directly into my shoulder blades – totally and utterly horribly uncomfortable.

example:

The introduction of a hauler model with a higher load capability due to construction materials but still based on the arc blast design/frame makes me uneasy but I'm sure it will work for some. However I have great concern for the taller folks and the design of the frame under larger weights.

I did contact Joe about this and for a very reasonable fee he said he could extend the frame taller and replicate the under the frame shoulder strap setup of the regular torso models. I felt bad asking for a pack that I may return anyways (after my initial experience I was scared) so I went a different route. But it's troubling that this has to be a problem for other tall people and I'm curious why its not just normal design across all the sizes?

tl;dr arc blast suspension is not uniform across torso sizes, carry capacities not parallel to comfort.

I believe that the Arc Haul frame will automatically be longer for people who order it with a longer back length. When I ordered one with a taller fit, Joe emailed me to say that it meant the frame had to be taller in order for the load lifters to attach to the frame. Besides, from what I can tell from the photos, the shoulder straps would have to attach below the frame for the length adjustment system to work (perhaps someone who has already received an Arc Haul could comment).

I'm measuring the vertical stay at 22 7/8" long..which, when I had my Frankenstein pack made ->

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=95108

It also measured 22 7/8". I would venture to guess the arc blast is the same. (I didn't measure that length when I had an arc blast before).

EDIT AGAIN: OK……I see now. They make different sizes of arc haul's. I didn't know that they were going to do that. I ordered mine before they made that info page. Whew…I guess I got lucky then…most likely I have a medium.

Confirmed by Joe…I got the medium…and yes…I now see that they even have this on the arc haul page ->

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Please note that if you choose the Tall torso height, the backpack frame is lengthened from 22.75" (58 cm) to 25.25" (64 cm). If you are on the line and do not want the taller frame sticking up behind your shoulders, get the Medium torso range.

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I would think a tall framed person would do just fine with the tall version….

Good to see the design has been updated!

Would this be worth it for someone planning to carry 18-20lbs max? Have never tried the regular Arc Blast, and have been thinking about buying one, but I tend to be sensitive to comfort issues and would rather be more comfortable even if it means a bit more pack weight. Or are the changes generally superfluous under 20lbs?

I'm also curious about the fabric. Has anyone actually had fabric durability issues with the Cuben Hybrid material?
I saw this series of durability tests in which cuben hybrid comes out looking very, very good and Dyneema comes out very poorly: https://hillpeoplegear.com/Forum/tabid/679/forumid/23/postid/10747/scope/posts/Default.aspx

Bradley,

The link you provided had some interesting results, great read. I wouldn't base your decision to buy zPacks backpacks on that, however. zPacks uses is 2.9oz/sqyd hybrid cuben and the test you linked was 5.3oz/yd^2, so the test had a much heavier [duty] fabric. Possibly of more importance is that test cuben hybrid was cuben/150d nylon and zPacks' is cuben/50d polyester. The general consensus is that cuben hybrid is very very strong in respect to ripping and tearing, for it's weight, but other materials like xpac and dyneema are more durable with respect to abrasion.

I'm sure others with more experience will chime in.

VX42 X-Pac looks like amazing stuff. How does 240D Dyneema compare? 240D wasn't tested in the experiment, only 140D which didn't fare well.