Chopping a bit more weight, advice from the experts?

Mike Clelland(NOLs instructor and author, his books are very good),he has some great free videos on lightening up be sure to watch(his clothing system,the entire contents of his pack,water treatment and part 1 and 2 on the dinky stuff for ideas),this is an article he wrote The fastest way to backpack weight loss ,this is pmags Lightweight Backpacking 101 and The Frugal Backpacker – The $300 Gear Challenge .These are some other articles and videos for you to check out

Backpacking for Cheap: Gear for the Gearless

Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): 3-Season, 3-Day

Lightweight Backpacking 101: An Introductory Manual for Lightening Your Load Today (1st Edition – August 2001)

Cheap Ultralight Gear List

Oregon Field Guide: Ultralight Hiking

Lightweight Testimony: Lighter, Farther, Faster
Jamie Shortt talks about his progression and shows his gear list for each stage, Lightweight Testimony: My Journey into Lightweight Backpacking
CleverHiker Light weight Basics
CleverHiker Trail Skills

Andrew Skurka has a very good website with trips and gear lists for you to check out, here is a talk he gave at google
Ultimate Hiking Gear & Skills Clinic
His book is worth checking out also
The Ultimate Hiker’s Gear Guide: Tools & Techniques to Hit the Trail
You can get little repackaging containers(like the ones you see in Mike Clelland uses in his videos) many places including your local stores and pharmacy but here are some examples
USPLASTICS
USPLASTICS
Ultralight Designs
GossamerGear
MountainLaurelDesigns

You have been linked!

Tons of low hanging fruit on your list; just depends on what things you're comfortable doing without and what your goals are.

The pack is on the heavy side, but with a bear can and all that foto stuff there might be few options which would save real weight without introducing other compromises.

The sleeping pad is super fat. Use a foam torso pad, sleep in good sites, and save almost a pound. ;)

An alcohol or esbit stove and smaller/lighter pot could save quite a few ounces with little diminution in function. That would depend on trip length and fuel weight to a certain extent.

To be frank, a number of things like sanitizer, antibiotic ointment, trowel, GPS, and compression sack are from many points of view useless and could easily be left behind.

Headlamp is super heavy, and that kind of lumens is probably not needed unless you're off trail in the dark regularly.

Plenty of 2-3 oz fixed blades which can do everything including split kindling if that's something you need to have.

No expert but you can save about 2-3# by going lighter with…..

Backpack – Large Arc Blast of the new ARC for heavier loads.

Kitchen crap – You can do an entire kitchen for about 4-5 oz or less. Lightest I have seen was sub 2oz.

Water – Doable in 4-5 oz.

Socks – extra pair of merino wool socks = 5.4oz – This is a heavy pair of sock if a single pair.

Rain – You could do a Cuben Parcho for the summer at about 3.5-4oz.

Headlamp – Lighter
Sea To Summit Large compression bag – OUT
Trowel = Lighter – Titanium .75oz
Knife = Lighter – +-1oz, Balado 35grams, the newer Swiss army knife with lock blade and saw and scissors weighs 3.2 oz

Are you counting consumables in your base weight ?

Wow, that is a lot of great links I'll be spending looking over. Thank you for that!

-I didn't realize my headlamp was considered heavy. I use an BD Icon in the winter, and that is another ~4oz or so heavier. I'll have to see to compare outputs on lighter headlamps, the Spot has great reach, and I am often out doing photography an hour or hour and a half after sunset. Also, I usually get up anywhere from an hour or two prior to sunrise to capture that. Depending on how close I can camp to my photography spot, it can often require hiking in the dark.

-It's funny to hear that my pack is on the heavy side, I thought it was light! But, I also used to use a Gregory Baltoro 65, and while functionally a great pack, with great reviews, it weighed almost 7 pounds I believe. Now, I laugh, considering some people can get about that for base weight! Sadly, the new "lighter" bag is relatively new, and I'm apprehensive about getting another new one, although it does appear there is an option for fairly significant weight savings. For sure, whatever I get will need to fit a BV500 bear canister.

-I can't believe I hadn't heard of esbit stoves. Seems fairly inexpensive, I may just have to try it out. The Pocket Rocket is fairly light, but it's the fuel that weighs it down. I listed a full 200g container, which would be enough for a week. If I'm going to go for a couple nights, I'd just take a 100g container. Regarding a lighter pot/pan, what are you guys using? Mine is the Snow Peak Trek 900 Titanium, which I thought was pretty darn light weight.

-Definitely going to have to replace my knife. 2-3oz vs the 9oz of mine is significant!

-You mentioned leaving behind a number of things. I have questions on those:
-What do you use to dig holes if you have no trowel? Having said that, the titanium trowel mentioned seems like a good way to save another couple of ounces.
-After wiping, what do you use if hand sanitizer is left out? Do you just rinse your hands in a stream? I definitely want to avoid transferring e. coli back into my stomach, considering I'm particularly sensitive anyway :) Interested to hear your methods, I've never read up much on backcountry hygiene.
-Regarding compression sacks, do you guys just put things in stuff sacks, such as those made from cuben fiber, instead? I've noticed those can get below an ounce. Do you just deal with the little extra space it takes?

Regarding the last question, I guess I counted some consummables in my base weight: fuel, TP, meds. I didn't count food/water.

Thanks for the responses so far. Lots of food for thought, and lots of links to peruse, and lots of research to do!

Brian,
instead of a trowel some people get by with using tent stakes, branches, spoon, rocks, your foot, etc. It depends on your terrain, the dirt in Colorado is pretty hard and dry so I usually carry a small super light trowel.

in terms of the compression sack, not necessary at all, if you put your sleeping bag in the bottom of your pack all the other gear on top will crush it down. you can also use the pack's straps to really sinch everything down.

stuff sacks, I got rid of all my stuff sacks. A string tied around my sleep pad works just as well as the stuff sack it came with, same for my tent. I use a plastic turkey roasting bag for food and ziploc baggies for first aid/toiletries. otherwise nothing else is in a bag or stuff sack. Take all your stuff sacks you usually bring and put them all on a scale, you'll be amazing how much those things weigh. the exception is if I need to hang a bear bag.

I've tried Esbit – too slow, yucky fumes and residue on pot, the fuel weighs more

200g canister provides more stable base. Pocket Rocket is fine. The empty canister is an extra 5 ounces but you can still have a low pack weight over-all. If I had a 5 ounce canister and 8 ounces of butane, it would take maybe 16 ounces of Esbit to boil the same amount of water, so depending on how much fuel you need, canister can weigh less.

Try both, see what works best for you

I just keep hands clean, wipe on pants, wipe on dirt, wash in stream, just depends, but hand sanitizer weighs very little so…

Stick and boot works. Sometimes a tent stake is useful in some soil. No need for trowel.

Zip top plastic bags. They weigh 0.4 ounce for gallon. You can see inside. Fairly waterproof.

I’ll let others make specific suggestions, they are better than I at spotting those. But, FWIW these are my thoughts:

Separate the bare essentials and think everything else as a luxury. Toilette paper is a wonderfully amusing example.

You don’t need toilette paper. You can live without it by using natural elements around you to clean up.

Personally, I prefer the luxury and weight of it. I carry only as little as I’ll need and two zip-lock bags. One bag sits in the other; used TP is packed out in the inner bag, unused TP waits in the outer bag.

As to how it’s done without TP? Have a good laugh here:

I am assuming your compression bag is for your quilt, but at any rate just stuff it into the bottom of your liner bag.

You should be able to get down to 12# pretty easy especially since some of your consumables are listed in your base weight. Lighter than that and your will have to start leaving more at home and spend some serious coin.

IE …

.Shelter – Cuben Tarp and titanium stakes saves 8oz
.Backpack – All smaller volume and use a Zparks Zero at 9oz but this means a change to smaller camera gear too and in a chest pack. Saves 2#-4oz just for that pack.
.Sleeping Bag – Arc Specialist long .8oz quantun 17oz so saves 4.4oz although what you have is very nice.
.Sleeping Bag Liner – Skip saves = 4.4oz

Just these items save 3.3# also roughly 14oz of consumables gets you to 4.2# so 10.6# Base or thereabouts.

This is hammock gear but I have watched all this guys AT thru videos (and he made it) and there are a couple showing his Budget gear. I think it was at about 9# but what is nice about it is simplicity and he did not spend a fortune and he videoed his entire hike. At around that pack size though, I would have opted for a Zero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nVoX6mlmdI

What kind of camera Eq do you haul that weighs 7.5# ?

Problem is also, really drop base weight you also need to reduce volume.

A Sony RX100 III weighs 10.1oz and takes very nice photos and has 24mm on the wide angle end.

My fuji X-E2 with a 18-55mm and a 10-24mm lens with charger weighs 2#14oz and is a lot smaller than a SLR. Also as a FYI the next Fuji is supposed to be 24mp.

Alternatively you could take just one lens IE a 16-55mm F2.8 (24-85mm F2.8 Equiv) and your total Camera lens and charger would weigh 2#6oz.

Buy a lighter carbon fiber tripod. 1.3# – Siuri T-025X Carbon Fiber Tripod

I understand the camera gear thing as I used to haul around a large format camera and everybody thought I was nuts and probably right…

Are you sure the Spot is 7oz with batteries? I saw your weight and assumed it was a different model. I'd think a lamp in that class would be half that.

Most of the folks I've spoken with who know more than me (i.e. doctors) have told me hand sanny is mostly psychological in value. I just give my hands a good scrub with water/snow and a bit of gravel if available.

I use a trekking pole to dig catholes when my shoe or a stick isn't sufficient. The popularity, indeed mere existence, of toilet trowels continues to elude me. Answer to a question which never existed in my book.

Esbit does leave a bit of residue on your pot. Thankfully this is easily dealt with by rubbing the pot base in the dirt after use. It's slower than a canister, but the small packed size and simple packaging make it my preferred fuel for 3-season solo use. Alcohol is cleaner and cheaper, but I never liked the invisi-flame and ease of spilling your stove.

Dave,

Your doctor types are leading you astray. While good soap and water for 20 seconds is best, 60% alcohol based hand sanitizer is effective for a broad range of germs. So it is MUCH more effective than water and snow.

http://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-hand-sanitizer.html

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/self-care/over-counter-products/article/6-things-know-about-hand-sanitizers

Also I would love for you to post a picture of the cat hole you dig 6 inches deep with your heel and trekking poles (before use). While you might be the exception, I bet most people that go this route end up with holes that aren't deep enough. I think you do people a disservice suggesting they forgo an adequate tool for digging a hole of proper depth.

There's no need for a cathole to be cylindrical. A trench ~3" wide, 20-30" long, and 6-8" deep in the center does the trick, and due to shape takes perhaps 10-20 seconds to dig.

Naturally, I encourage everyone to purchase a small plastic ruler and bring it on all trips in order to quantify proper cathole depth.

While I think some tent stakes can serve adequate double duty in this department, in many cases, you need a metal implement.

I guess I'll have to take your word for your ability to quickly and efficiently displace 360-720 square inches of dirt. Let's ignore rocks…none of those in the mountains. Let's ignore that digging a trench that is 2-3 feet long isn't exactly LNT. But hey, you saved an ounce. I have never understood the fascination of cutting this device. Especially considering the amount of poorly buried crap that is out there. But I won't derail the OP's thread trying to contradict what I consider bad advice.

Wow, this site is awesome! Lots of advice, some contradictory, which can be good as it gives you something to think about and do more research on. Again, thank you for the responses. Based on some of the advice given, and links provided, I went a little crazy with purchases, but I've been able to get my base weight to around 10.5 pounds, which I'm happy about. This doesn't include the bear canister, but that depends on what area I'm going to. Nevertheless, I got a smaller one suitable for 3 days food that "only" weighs ~1.5 pounds, the Bare Boxer Contender.

-Qiwiz makes titanium trowels, and the medium size, which is about the same size as my current trowel, is only 0.6 ounces, which I felt was a great compromise for being able to dig a hole quickly. Sometimes the children need to be dropped off quicker than you want ;)
-Based on the advice here, I'm going to ditch the compression sack. I think my main worry has been damaging it with other stuff in my bag, but thinking about it, there's nothing really that I have that is sharp or dirty. I'll also just get a pack liner if I'm worried about the bag getting wet in a rainstorm.
-Great advice on a string around the sleeping pad rather than it's stuff sack. I always hated trying to get the damn thing rolled up in there just perfect anyway.
-I weighed my stuff sacks. It was embarrassing. Although I did end up buying a cuben fiber one for clothing, simply to keep it all in one spot. To most, likely unnecessary, but at under an ounce, I'm okay with it.
-Got an Esbit stove and tabs to try out. Hopefully it's for me, because the weight savings are great, especially for shorter trips. If not, well, it's fairly cheap to try out anyway, and the Pocket Rocket isn't insanely heavier.
-Thanks for the links on backcountry poo-poo, quite entertaining! Not quite sure I'm ready to make the transition to TP-less yet, although maybe once I get settled into being more minimalist than the past I may give it a shot.
-I didn't get the absolute lightest pack out there, but did go with a Zpacks Arc Blast. Since I just bought a HMG Porter 4400 within the last year, I really didn't want to get a new pack, but losing a further 1.5+ pounds was too much to pass up. Now my Big "Three" (tarp, pack, bag, pad, bivy, stakes, liner) are under 5 pounds, and the actual three are about 3 pounds. In comparison, a year ago, my tent + pack alone were over 10 pounds.
-I wasn't clear on the SPOT + GPS. The SPOT is a tad under 5 ounces, and the Garmin GPS is about 7 ounces. Many will cringe, but I'm not quite ready to give up the GPS, and the wife won't let me go without a SPOT.

Regarding the camera gear:
The Canon 5d Mark II + Canon 16-35 f4 weigh in at 56.7 ounces, ~3.5 pounds
The Gitzo carbon fiber tripod and Markins ballhead weigh in at 49.4 ounces, ~3 pounds
Plus some other accessories: filters, spare battery, small pocket cam, chest harness + case bring the total to ~7.5 pounds.

I was into landscape photography long before I started backpacking, and backpacking was borne out of a desire to get to spots which were less commonly seen, and less iconic. Of course, since then, I have fallen in love with backpacking, but the primary reason I am there is still photography. That said, smaller camera systems do not provide the quality that I desire. Other systems, like the Sony RX100, are of pretty good quality, but I use the ultra-wide focal length quite a lot, including 16mm. The 16mm I can get can provide a vastly different look/feel than the widest (at 24mm) the Sony, or similars, can get. Smaller APS-C sensors of DSLRs, and therefore cameras, are able to achieve the equivalent 35mm format field of view of 16mm (at 10mm), but that comes at a cost of noise and reduced light gathering ability. If I were doing just daytime photography, I'd definitely downsize to APS-C, however, I almost always spend another hour or two after sunset doing photography, including twilight and wide field astrophotography. To a photographer, the difference is noticeable. I completely understand that to most people, they won't see a difference, or care about that difference, and they could eliminate most of that 7.5 pounds I carry. In the end, most everything listed (quality, weight, size, etc) is due to one thing: the large sensor size of full frame cameras.

Again, thank you to everyone who has replied so far. Some great recommendations here, some of which I'm embarrassed to not have thought of since they are fairly common sense (ziplocks instead of stuff sacks). I already can't wait for my next trip once all the gear arrives to see how much fresher I feel at the end of a day of hiking, or how much further I can go. Some of the gear in my gear list has not arrived yet, so my initial gear list is not representative of what I have been carrying, and so the difference in weights is actually quite a bit larger than even that achieved just through this post itself. Thanks again!!

"Lots of advice, some contradictory"

I prefer that. Different techniques work for different people at different times.

I rarely am forced to use a leaf, but toilet paper is better. Sufficient amount for cleanliness. I don't care what anyone else says. Do people really do that or is that just humor? : )

I understand Full frame and I prefer it too, but you should check out the IQ of the Fuji raw files when you get a chance and especially Fuji lenses are top notch. As good as anything out there. Personally I am almost at the point where I dont think it matters, IE full frame to 1.5x crop when the IQ is this good. The only thing that really is a big difference for me is the DOF IE you need to shoot faster lenses to get the same short DOF like for portrait.

If you can deal with a crop sensor and want the ultimate IQ in a mid weight package, wait on the next Fuji X-Pro 2 which will be 24mp and do 4K video – Or buy a Fuji X-E2 16mp now for cheap used to get started. Great image quality since they do NOT have an AA filter and it probably matches the 5DII for IQ at 16mp.

X-E2 and Fuji 10-24mm F4 lens (15mm – 36mm Equiv) – 38oz (I weighed mine)
Siuri T-025X Carbon Fiber Tripod – 21oz
Skip the P+S and keep the other stuff at – 8 oz
Total 4#-3oz.

Saves you about 3#

Edit: Yes the 5DII is a good low light long exposure camera so I understand.

Let us know how the Arc Blast handles and fits. I've really been eyeing that pack. A few things without compromising anything.

-Ditch the quilt and bag liner, 25.8 oz total, for a 10 deg zpacks bag for about 21 oz depending on the size.
-NeoAir Xtherm 18.2 oz, swap out for the NeoAir Xlite 12 oz for a Reg size
-Gatorade bottle 1.8 oz, I'm assuming 1L, swap for thinner plastic 1L bottle about 1oz
-900ml Tit pot 6.8 oz, swap for Evernew Tit 900ml (shorter, wider one) at 3.8 oz

That's another 14.8 oz saved.

Other thoughts. You can find plenty of lighter compasses. That knife is heavy! I'm assuming you are bringing a phone. Ditch the Garmin GPS and buy Gaia GPS app for your smartphone (keep the SPOT though). Check out the Thruhiker.com evaluation of different fuel/stove efficiencies. I seem to remember that canister vs alcohol is a wash the longer you go. I use an alcohol stove for 4 days or less, more than that and I use a canister stove. I will bring a single 110g canister which usually lasts about 5 days for me with 2 hot meals a day (breakfast and dinner). If I was going 7 days, I would still bring a 110g canister but figure out how many no cook meals i need to make it last 7 days. If I no cook a meal, I prefer it to be breakfast. Usually a smoothie.

Can you go with a monopod set up and table top tripod? If you used Gossamer Gear trekking poles you can get a 1/4"-20 attachment on top of the grip which would be you monopod. Pedco makes a pretty decent table top tripod that is 2oz. Check the weight specs on it. You might be right at it's limit. BH Photo sells them.

Per Dave C above, I am wondering about some of the weights mentioned…

My SPOT (Gen3, w/lithium batteries)) weighs 4.16 oz (118.0g) and GPS (Etrex 30) is 4.51 oz (127.9g). If using factory-supplied leashes and straps (especially that velcro strap with the mini-'biner for the SPOT), they can be replaced with a simple tether made of 1.2mm Z-line or some such. Of course, your SPOT and GPS might be different models.

If you don't have a good scale, get one. I have a 1kg scale that is accurate to .1g and am tempted to get one accurate to .01g, such is the growing severity of my UL affliction. For heavier stuff there's a 10lb postal scale accurate to .1oz. A digital hanging fish scale is also good for measuring total pack weight (TPW).

On many solo trips I am finding that the GPS isn't necessary and use map and, occasionally, compass, which I always carry anyway. I used to carry a big, honkin' mirror compass but now just use a small tag-sized compass. It is totally adequate 99.99% of the time, although following a bearing in a white-out would be tough, although that is a rare occurrence.

Wow, that's an awful lot of camera gear. I understand that urge, but I'm trying something new this year — seeing what I can do with only a cellphone camera (Galaxy S5) — which is the only thing I plan to carry. The battery lasts quite a long time in Airplane mode.

>> … seeing what I can do with only a cellphone camera (Galaxy S5)

Bob, how's the image quality so far? I've been wanting a better phone camera and the Galaxy is on my shortlist. I've heard it's comparable to the iPhone.

Brian minimus.biz is also a good site to check out for small items, they have antibiotic ointment in individually sealed packet so that you don’t have to carry a 2.5oz tube of antibiotic ointment , Small individual condiments size packets ect. ,they have all kinds of interesting little items.You could also try Archtek Toothpaste Tablets so instead of carrying a tube of toothpaste you can count out how many you will need for a given trip and only carry what you need in a little snack size ziplock.

> Alcohol is cleaner and cheaper, but I never liked the invisi-flame and ease of spilling your stove.

Dave, there's a clever solution to both of these. A piece of fiberglass insulation on the inside of the stove holds the alcohol and dramatically slows spillage. A pinch of table salt will turn the flame yellow and quite easily visible.

These work better with some designs than others, of course. The mods would fall out of an open stove like the Supercat, but everything stays in place on a penny stove or Pepsi can stove if it's placed inside during construction.

A another way to lighten up a few oz. Is to use drinking straws to store items.

Hah, I knew the camera gear would "rile" some people up, for lack of a better term. Trust me, I wish my setup was lighter for the same image quality. I make lots of 20"x30" prints, and some up to 40"x60", so I squeeze the most I can out of my system already. I have yet to find a system that matches what I have (sans a Nikon D810 with more resolution/dynamic range, but that's about the same weight) when based on build quality, weather sealing/resistance, capabilities of lenses, resolution, and low light ability. I have tried out a friend's Fuji (can't remember if it was the X-E2), and I remember thinking it was pretty damn good, but not quite what I needed. I'm hoping within the next few years the technology advances to the point where smaller mirrorless system, or even micro 4/3 systems, match what I have now. Nothing I'd love more by having a smaller camera, chopping a few pounds from my pack weight, and retaining image quality. Even though the 5D2 is about 7 years old now, it's going to be hard for a tiny sensor to overcome the abilities of the much larger full frame sensor. But I'm always watching, and hoping!

-The difference in SPOTs may very well be what you stated, Bob. I still have the original velcro + carabiner on there. I'm going to go ahead and get rid of that and replace it with some cord of some sort
-The GPS is a Garmin Oregon 400 I believe. One of the main reasons I use it is to mark locations that I see that I want to come back to in the future when the weather is more cooperative for photography (aka, worse weather). Getting to the same lake is not the hard part, but rather, the exact point on the lake, for instance. Often, one particular spot can make for a great photograph, and 20 feet away, will make for a lousy photograph (such as a pattern of rocks in the foreground vs just weeds). I like to be able to get to these spots quickly, rather than rushing around the lake trying to find it while wasting precious moments of the golden hour. That was just an example.
-Regarding ditching the GPS and using the phone, I've found that the battery life just isn't good enough for multi day trips (yes, airplane mode, etc etc). On top of that, I want to keep a little bit of spare charge for "just in case" situations. Bringing a solar charger would then mostly negate any weight savings of ditching the GPS.
-Cell phone cameras have vastly improved in quality over the last several years. I take pictures with my S5 that look pretty damn good on screen! However, the limitations of the tiny sensor and lens show up when printing, which I do. But if you're just sharing your images online, I think you'll be quite impressed with the quality you're able to achieve with something you already carry on your person.
-Definitely will have to get a smaller compass. I bought mine when I first started backpacking, and I think my thought pattern was biggest = most features = best. To this day, I've never used the mirror.

Another awesome link! What a resource you guys are! I know I've said it in each post, but thank you!!

Bob, how’s the image quality so far? I’ve been wanting a better phone camera and the Galaxy is on my shortlist. I’ve heard it’s comparable to the iPhone.

Richard, the short answer is the same thing I said about the original Tikka LED light, “astonishingly adequate”! :^)

I’m gonna see if I can live with it. I started a separate thread on cellphone cameras so as not to get too far OT on this thread.

>> … astonishingly adequate"!

You know, I think if that were the gold standard for gear selection a lot of angst and hand wringing would be relieved!

LOL