Lightweight Carabiners

I don't really like small lockers that much. They are tough to clove hitch and make terrible masterpoints. This is underscored for me when I climb on my buddy's rack- made exclusively of Wild Country Neons and DMM Shields. The DMM Shields are fine (but they aren't lockers!), because of their extreme asymmetry they can fit a decent amount, if they're aligned properly and you use spectra slings. But the Neons are very annoying if you use the most common rope size, 9.8mm, for clove hitching yourself.

It's better in my opinion to simply carry only a handful of lockers and then spend the money upgrading your draws – you need a lot more of those, so it'll make a greater impact – I use one of the lightest hookless biners, the Heliums, and a single draw is extremely light.

How many lockers do you usually need for leading anyway? One to anchor yourself, another two to belay. Those two easily become the same two you use to rappel, one on the belay device and the other on the autoblock hitch.

dont worry about having the "lightest" carabiners …

most of these UL carabiners have serious tradeoffs in size and durability (ibeams wear to a sharp edge faster when belaying)

i own and use neons, positrons, attache 3Ds, shadows, etc …

my suggestion is that unless yr doing the fastest and lightest alpine, is to

– keep 1 good old round stock biner for belaying …. it will last longer, be smoother in autoblock and you can munter easily in an emergency

– keep 1-2 petzl attache 3D … 55g but its a real wide diameter biner (same as the normal attache) and can handle at least 2 cloves

– keep 1-2 edelrid pures … 43g but generally larger than these mini biners, its the same as the positrons … itll will easily handle a clove

unless you are climbing at your absolute limit its not the few grams of a locker thats preventing you from sending … its your skill, mentality, or fitness

heres some writing from one of the upcoming local alpinists …

http://cascadeclimbers.com/faster-is-lighter-tips-for-increasing-your-speed-in-the-alpine/

A very important concept that I’d like to begin my article with is that faster almost always means lighter. However, lighter doesn’t always mean faster.

This concept essentially dictates that the key to travelling lighter on alpine routes is by raising ones overall competency on alpine terrain. Building confidence on moderate terrain is by far the most essential ingredient in gaining the ability to move quickly in the mountains. The ability to confidently move un-roped on mid-5th class rock, steep snow and moderate ice can open up a whole new realm of possibility for the alpinist wishing to move fast and light. I believe that the ability to solo 5.8 or 5.9 is a more valuable skill for the alpinist than the ability to onsight 5.12 trad. Building the confidence and technical skills to move more easily and freely in the mountains in turns allows one to reduce the time spent vulnerable to objective dangers or weather changes in committing situations.

;)

Eric, aren't nearly all lightweight carabiners made out of an aluminum alloy?

In the ancient days forty or fifty years ago, we could not afford good aluminum ones, so we used stainless steel carabiners. That was a problem. First, they were heavy. Second, the metal surface would get so hot from a fast rappel that it would burn skin and melt rope fibers. Not good.

–B.G.–

bob …

almost all modern climbing carabiners are made from aluminum

what the OP is talking about is the minute weight difference between one biner to another …

unfortunately most of these new "trendy" UL biners have drawbacks, especially if your partner has larger hands or in winter with gloves on

while weight does matter … the small differences between one biner and another a few grams heavier isnt going to be what makes or breaks you on a multipitch trad climb

its a myth that buying the lightest shiniest climbing gear will make one a better climber …. what will make you a better climber is being fit, climbing lots, practicing skills over and over again, and having a good lead head

most of the better climbers i know out here dont have the shiniest, lightest, gear

;)

"almost all modern climbing carabiners are made from aluminum"

Pure aluminum, or aluminum alloy?

–B.G.–

aluminum alloy 7075-T6 is most often used for climbing carabiner applications

;)

Everything Eric said: the extremely small weight savings are often outweighed by the greater durability and usability of standard carabiners such as the Positron.

For general cragging I use slightly heavier gear such as nylon runners and 10mm ropes, and save the spectra slings, Arcteryx harness, and skinny cords for alpine climbs- not so much to save weight while climbing, but to make the approach more manageable simply because my fitness level is never where I want it to be when I have the time to get into the mountains. Otherwise, I want the gear to last and be overall easier to use, so tiny biners are usually out.

I hope these visuals help:

3 Trango Superfly Screwlocks vs 3 "standard" medium lockers (Positron, Mad Rock Ultra Tech, etc)

As for clove hitches; the Trangos will take a clove just fine with a 9.8mm rope. If your superlight biners will be used solely for anchors (and not at the powerpoint) then I do not think the lower durability and slightly greater clipping difficulty is a deal breaker.

With Eric, I do recommend lighter belay biners such as the BD vaporlock and Attache 3D. They weigh 1.8oz vs 3oz for a BD Rocklock, and can take two cloves and a munter without issue. They wear faster on raps, but unless you use them to toprope from, they last years.

Like others have said saving a few grams per locker likely isn't going to make a huge difference in how hard you climb. For me how a carabiner feels in hand makes a much bigger difference than the weight. If you're really trying to lighten your rack I'd focus on getting comfortable climbing with less gear and switching out for lighter non-locking, yet still full size or mostly full size 'biners. This makes the biggest difference since you have way more non lockers than lockers. Of course if you're climbing with BD rocklocks or similar then switching to a lighter locker can halve that weight. A great compromise non locking biner is the trango superfly since they're sort of a midsize, pretty light (31g) and inexpensive. My rack of alpine draws and cam racking biners are pretty much all DMM phantoms, BD Oz, and WC heliums which, while expensive, saves a noticeable amount of weight on an approach, but not as much as simply leaving doubles of cams behind when I only "might" need them.

The absolute best LIGHT lockers for non belay and non-masterpoint use are the CAMP photons. They're full size lockers (though a little narrower), similar to a positron in size, yet only weigh 42 grams. They're amazing. I wouldn't want to belay with one as they're skinny spine would make it inefficient and they would wear pretty fast. Same goes for toprope masterpoints, but for a general use locker they're hard to beat. For clipping myself into an anchor, using on a grigri, clipping anchor gear, etc. they're hard to beat. They're within a gram or two of the lightest lockers, but substantially bigger. They're also a great value at $12 each and often on sale for $10.

I also love the DMM phantom locker and the WC neons (I like the phantom more) which weigh a gram less than the photon but are a fair bit smaller(but still completely usable although can be a little annoying with gloves).

I'm not a fan on small lockers either. I usually only have 3 or maybe 4 of them on me so there isn't much weight savings. Saving a few grams on 20+ nonlockers is a better bang for your buck.

wow, thanks everyone. Great info and honest responses as always from this site!

I guess my question was more of how light of a locker I can get before they're just too small to work with. I understand it gets to a point where the super small size is just not worth it when you can't clip it.

it sounds like people like the DMM Phantom and CAMP Photon lockers for lightweight but still practical and functional?

And thanks for the tips on the Petzel Attache (55g) belay biner, I'm using BD rocklocks (89g).

Also, I totally get having lighter quickdraws/cams/nuts/etc over lighter lockers. I'm looking at upgrading to the Edelrid Misson Light quickdraws, and switching out some alpine draw biners from BD Hoodwires (37g) to CAMP Nano (22g), just waiting for them to go on sale.

—

changing topic a bit, what webbing/cordelette/slings/webolette are people using at anchors? I have some 7 or 8mm cordelette, but one of my friends swears by Titan Cord? And I know, I know, "just use the rope" but some routes we'll bounce back between block leading and leading pitches in a row.

eric chan:
"unless you are climbing at your absolute limit its not the few grams of a locker thats preventing you from sending … its your skill, mentality, or fitness"

– but that just sounds like hard work…….. :)

I have WC neons, as people say clove hitches on them aren't all that pretty. If there's not much basket space, an alpine butterfly can be an option that doesn't take up nearly as much space.

I like Petzl's attache 3D for a large, light biner, that's easy to use.

I still carry one of the heaviest biners around for my belay device though – a rocklock magnetron. I just like how it feels.

Kirsten,

I bought a few Nanos but never use them as clipping and unclipping them is simply too difficult- maybe grab one of each of the small biners and find what works for you?
The Black Diamond OZ biner is as small as I can go and still easily clip/unclip. That said, I use as many WC Heliums as I can afford- overall amazing usability and light weight.

Titan cord is much stiffer than perlon and needs a triple fisherman's to make a closed loop, and is just more of a pain to tie knots into. I used it for alpine anchors just in case I needed to cut a length for raps, otherwise 6-7mm nylon is easier to use, cheaper, and has more stretch.

Keep in mind that the spectra runners will wear out much faster than nylon and mixed/nylon runners. Mine go about 2-3 years before needing replacement, so I save them for alpine and ice climbing.

And as has been said, the lightest way to lighten up a rack is simply to bring less protection… which is often a function of comfort and confidence on a given route. Also, I will often rack each cam on an alpine draw and eliminate the extra biner needed for separate racking.
Still, the Metolius Powercams are one of the lightest sets, though I dislike using them over Camelots.

What are you using now?
Oh, and use tricams instead of taking more SLCDs!

For anchors amd slings i use mainly 10-12mm dyneema slings … 8mm is a bit too thin and offers minimal savings

For 3 piece anchors a 240 cm BD dynex sling works well, of course for spaced placements youll most likely need to use a combination of slings and the rope

Maxim 5mm techcord works fine as well as said it is a bit stiff and a biatch to cut …. On techcord a double fishermans is actually recommended by the manufacturer

The dyneema and techcord should be replaced every 300-400 climbing days of use (1-2 years of daily climbing) as it loses its strength with constant flex cycles fairly fast

For harder climbs its a very good idea to carry a nylon sling or two so you can use em as aiders or kleimheist them to ascend the rope … I usually bring a 60 cm nylon sling to use mainly as a badolier, and for the above when needed

As for tricams and hexes … While they are lighter, they take more time to place and the second needs to be very proficient at cleaning em or itll take even more time … Unless your partners are very experienced with em its usually not worth the fiddle factor and time … The modern climber fresh out of the gym and REI uses "plug and pray" cams anyways … The exception is if u will be encountering icy, durty, muddy cracks where they rule

Again …. All this geeking out on climbing gears is fun and shiny new gear makes us all feel good …

But the bottom line is that any decently modern gear will work just fine … If you want to get faster or better, the money is best spent going to the crag and climbing more/harder … And by practicing your belay amd technical skills where you can do changeovers in minimal time under poor conditions

Faster is usually lighter, but lighter gear doesnt mean faster

;)

Here is my 2 cent:
I love my Petzl Attache 3D. Yes it does wear out but in this case it is a great compromise. The size is also great with gloved hands. I mostly ice climb in the Canadian Rockies.
My ice climbing partners do not want to ice climb using my draws… DMM Phantom and WC Astro. They are getting small when wearing gloves. On easy climbs I do not mind it but I agree with them when leading harder ice. For rock climbing and summer alpine routes we all agree that the small biners are not an issue for us. Everything feels so much easier to hold when bare handed or with thin gloves… And we also are not climbing 5.13's!
Also of note, I tend to use thin ropes (8mm doubles and 8.9mm single) they don't take much space when compared to fat singles.
Since you're after ways to shed some weight: after trying out a Camp Alp 95 harness for a 10.5hr alpine ice route I can tell you that the harness felt amazing on the way up but I felt every rap on the way down! My back and sides were very bruised/bloodied the next day. I won't make that choice again.
Cheers
P

Michael,
The Camp Nanos I'm planning to use for the bolt/pro end and my BD hoodwires for the rope end of the draws. I definitely agree that they are too small for ice climbing. My rack consists of a set of Stoppers, set of Tricams, and WC Helium Friends, with pitons/knifeblades for ice and mixed.

thanks everyone for the comments, great stuff! Keep it coming. I think I'm sold on the Petzl Attache 3D.