- Mar 11, 2015 at 6:49 am #1326689Mar 11, 2015 at 7:21 am #2181623idesterBPL Member
@doug-iLocale: The Cascades
"I had a very interesting conversation with the rep from Toray. They had sewn up some nice factory prototypes with their new insulation material ‘3DeFX+’. I reported on this new ‘stretch’ insulation last year, but it was nice to see it turned into something wearable:"
KUIU has a jacket (with and without hood) with Toray 3DeFX+, Kenai hoody and jacket. 15 oz and 13 oz.Mar 11, 2015 at 4:28 pm #2181806Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Yeah, we are up for field testing!
CheersMar 12, 2015 at 4:54 am #2181927
A few remarks:
1) SDP by Keela/Ardmel is not something relatively new, but already exists for a long time and the opportunity for anyone to use it, is not new either.
2) 3DeFX+ = Fullrange by Patagonia.
3) 3M Thinsulate Featherless: according to their pressrelease and a few other sources, it's not continuous but a loose fill insulation, intended to look like down.
4) Montane Fireball Verso: the insulation used is not the common Primaloft Silver but the new Primaloft Silver insulation Active, Primaloft's answer to Polartec Alpha or Toray's 3DeFX+.
5) Montane Hi-Q with Primaloft Gold Luxe: I find it strange to hear it's exclusive to Montane, yet to see it in a few pieces of other brands also. BTW, Luxe looks like a slitghly improved version of Thermoball, also made by Primaloft.Mar 12, 2015 at 6:15 am #2181941
1) I realise SDP is by no means new, in fact, I mentioned it in my own article last year:
It is the Saxon Jacket that is new this year, and it is lighter than other SDP jackets from Keela. I raise the subject of SDP again in order to point out that the technology is getting lighter.
2) I do not suggest that only Toray is using 3DeFX+. In my own article last year, I made it clear that stretch insulation itself was by no means new.
3) The 3M rep said it was a continuous fibre.
4) From the Montane workbook:
– 40g PRIMALOFT® SILVER insulation for
super packable warmth and gossamer
5) The Montane Rep said that Primaloft Gold Luxe is exclusive to Montane. I do not venture to say how good any of these new types of synthetic insulation are, I think we will be waiting a few years before we can say with more clarity how they perform.Mar 12, 2015 at 6:47 am #2181952
No problem. Just to help some to have a clearer picture.
1) SDP: just to say that it exists for maybe 10 years (or longer) and the fact that only a few brands have pickt it up, tells maybe something. Is it getting lighter ? Sure, but nearly everything is.
2) oh, I just wanted to say that Pata's 'mysterious' Fullrange insulation is simply 3DeFX+.
3) from their press release: "3M announced today the launch of 3M Thinsulate Featherless Insulation, a new loose fill insulation alternative to natural down…"
4) I have the workbook too and it's faulty about this. Better info on OM: http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-news/montane-gets-new-more-breathable-primaloft/13936.html
5) the rep was wrong
;-)Mar 12, 2015 at 7:17 am #2181956
> the fact that only a few brands have pickt it up, tells maybe something. Is it getting lighter ? Sure, but nearly everything is.
I also pointed out that Keela's claims for their SDP technology are, as yet, untested by BPL staff. If there is a noticeable improvement in comparison to a single membrane, and the garments are now coming in below 500g, then they may become an option more people are willing to consider.
MattMar 12, 2015 at 7:46 am #2181964
One BPL that would surprise me big time as even there's quite some discussion on a rain shell of maybe 250g. "Is 250g not unnecesserally heavy ?" :-)Mar 12, 2015 at 11:44 am #2182040rick .BPL Member
@overheadviewLocale: Charlotte, NC
Can someone smarter than me explain how reversing a jacket can change its wind resistance/breath-ability?
I could see having the more wind-resistant face to the outside would make it warmer, but its the same two fabrics that air has to be pushed through.Mar 13, 2015 at 8:41 pm #2182433Adam KilpatrickBPL Member
@oystersLocale: South Australia
My guess is its not so much about total breathability, but rather than by exposing the insulation to a greater amount of wind/airflow its total insulation effectiveness will be reduced (greater rate of air changes). This would make it feel cooler.
There is a (probably slight) chance that by doing this, the airflow over the now inner, less breathable fabric will be ever so slightly increased. Increasing the airflow over a membrane will increase the rate it can breath, ever so slightly. For this to be effective the other fabric and the insulation would have to put up a rather pitiful amount of resistance to wind.Mar 14, 2015 at 2:20 pm #2182652Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
> explain how reversing a jacket can change its wind resistance/breath-ability?
I scratched my head over that one as well.
A bit warmer, sure, possible.
CheersMar 14, 2015 at 5:42 pm #2182719Adam KlagsBPL Member
@klagsLocale: Northeast USA
Pretty disappointed to hear montane going over to goretex. One of the attractive things about the company was their eVent options. I hope RAB and others are sticking with eVent…Mar 15, 2015 at 5:30 am #2182789
Oh well, aren't we searching constantly for something more comfortable ? Whether event, gore-tex, neoshell or something else, I personally don't care. Event had the name of the most comfortable (for a rainshell). Now there's also GTX Pro. And what will bring the future ?Mar 15, 2015 at 5:37 am #2182790
Sounds like the Berghaus Hypertherm.Mar 18, 2015 at 4:10 am #2183649Evan DaviesMember
And the Inov-8 ThermoshellMar 18, 2015 at 6:41 am #2183675John DeMorrisSpectator
@bulwyfLocale: West TX
Matthew thanks for the very informative report on ISPO 2015. The Rab Flashpoint jacket looks promising. I hope to read a BPL review of it soon!Mar 19, 2015 at 12:26 am #2184001
glad you liked the article. Parts 2 and 3 should be out in the next two weeks. When the articles are finished I will forward company contact details to the relevant parties at BPL, I like to get the articles done first. After that, who knows.
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