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 Hacked discussion of tents? restored


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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 135 total)
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  • #1326292
     
    BPL Member

    @rememberthelorax

    Someone attempted to delete and hide this thread.
    Uncouth behaviour.

    Cheers
    Roger

     

    #2178882
    Rocco Speranza
    BPL Member

    @mechrock

    Locale: Western NC Mtns

    Good stuff John! Just makes me want one even more… My poor wallet. :'(

    #2178891
    DGoggins
    BPL Member

    @hjuan99

    Locale: Mountain West

    Ok, as a fellow .74 oz duplex owner, I have a few questions for you if you don't mind.

    You stated ->


    What I have done is purchase the “LineLoc 3 Line Adjusters with Loops” that ZPacks sells, I then reverse feed them with the guylines, and drive my stake through the loops.



    If I understand this correctly, you are simply attaching your guyline to the existing loop on the corners of the duplex, then your lineloc 3 is near the stake and you use the grosgrain loop to go around the stake.

    Which is fine….though, I would still think it would be better to cow hitch the grosgrain loop onto the tieout loop near the tent, and then tie a bowline loop for the stake end. Which is what I did. I like it like that b/c one…if I absolutely had to I could retension the lineloc from inside the shelter and two…I don't like tensioning by only pulling on the guyline. I generally like grabbing the tent fabric itself and pulling (gently of course) and then tensioning the line through the lineloc. Or…do both (i.e., 50% pulling on the tent and 50% pulling on the guyline).

    And….I forget if the duplex came like this or if I added it. But, did the duplex come with lineloc 3s on the apex tieouts or not? I know I added linelocs on the perimeter tieouts (which…I think just makes everything so much easier instead of doing a truckers hitch each time), but forgot about the apex.

    Next…. My duplex was made before zpacks was even putting d rings on the door loops…so I had to add little O-rings to make it a bit easier. I saw your facebook post and ordered 4 lineloc 3 buckles, but you said ->


    zpacks has informed me they are re-working the way the doors are secured. they are not going the route I have, but what they shared with me does look like it will make it easier to close/open the door – not as easy as the lineloc buckle method I am using, but still easier than that little carabineer



    Could you let me know the method that they are thinking of using?

    Oh, and I absolutely agree about the square buckles for securing the storm doors…not that easy to use. And, thank you for the reminder that I should be raising the mid panel guyline, not just take it to the ground. I took my duplex winter camping and sometimes was getting too close when sitting up that I was getting some condensation on my down puffy hood (which of course added a few inches to my height). ->

    duplex

    #2178968
    Edward Jursek
    BPL Member

    @nedjursekgmail-com

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    John – how does the total footprint (including guy lines) of the Duplex compare to the Hexamid Twin? I have had some issues getting my Hexamid into tight sports before and wonder if the new design is more compact overall?

    #2179082
    Matthew H
    BPL Member

    @vision-quest

    Locale: Boulder, CO

    I really wanted to like the Solplex.. I bought one, used it once and sold it. Those storm doors with a carabiner to shut them? So, so fidgety and annoying.. especially when it's cold or wet. Also the size was just too small. If they could add a zipper to the Duplex it might be perfect for me.

    #2179097
    Matthew H
    BPL Member

    @vision-quest

    Locale: Boulder, CO

    Totally, I can see why people like the Solplex but it just wasn't for me.

    They just need to find a new way to do those storm doors that doesn't require a stupid carabiner and pulling string. So annoying. Just give me a zipper damnit! I'll take the couple ounce penalty.

    #2179102
    Matthew H
    BPL Member

    @vision-quest

    Locale: Boulder, CO

    Correct. That design is just stupid IMO. Not sure how they have sold so many.. I just couldn't stand it. As you said, when it's freezing cold and you need gloves, forget about it.

    Thanks for sharing the clips idea.. much better than the carabiner. I still would like to not have to pull string to shut my doors though.

    I'll be keeping an eye out for what ZPacks are doing with the doors if as you said they are looking into a new idea. This may get me to try the Duplex. Currently pretty damn happy with my Stratospire 2 for the wife and I, just would love to drop a bit of weight for when I'm solo.

    #2179137
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    I still would like to not have to pull string to shut my doors though.

    Yes, but putting enough stress on a zipper to ensure taut door panels is no easy trick, either, and even then it would take quite a bit of contortion to pull a zipper all the way to the bottom of the panels.

    I agree that the carabiner setup is not very elegant, although it does work. But it is sometimes difficult to feed that 'biner through the little loop under the best of circumstances, i.e. warm hands and no gloves. I've been giving some thought to modifying it for the upcoming season to iron out the one little wrinkle in what is IMHO otherwise perfect.

    I use the Duplex as my 3-season shelter and MLD Duomid for winter. The Duomid's steeper sides and no-gap perimeter make it better for this purpose. The Duomid's zippered side panel (door) has a buckle at the bottom which is designed to be engaged before zipping the door shut, the intent being to reduce stress on the zipper. I read some posts where folks were having zippers break, and in every instance it was because they were not buckling the panels before zipping.

    #2179156
    Matthew H
    BPL Member

    @vision-quest

    Locale: Boulder, CO

    Thanks Bob for your thoughts. I think what you may be looking for is John's clip solution above.

    #2179195
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    I like that, but I have something else in mind that might 'automatically' balance the tension equally between the 2 panels while maintaining the flexibility to tension them independently when using one panel or the other.

    I'll definitely post a pic when I figure out how to rig it.

    edit for clarity

    #2179204
    Matthew H
    BPL Member

    @vision-quest

    Locale: Boulder, CO

    Please do, thanks!

    #2179214
    David .
    Spectator

    @sirbc

    I see in your setup video that you also get a gap underneath the head and foot of the bathtub:

    hexamid

    I get this as well and thought it just might be my setup. The issue is that with the ends floating like that, even a tiny slight breeze can then get underneath the bathtub floor, causing it to sail up towards the top of the tent. In a moderate breeze the thing looks like it's about ready to take flight.

    #2179455
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    I used fixed-length (120cm) trekking poles and consistently get a pretty good pitch that is significantly lower than the ones pictured above. I like the floor a little lower because it puts less stress on the mesh and corners.

    Pitched with fixed-length polesduplex 01

    Very first pitch with adjustable-length poles… my ridge line has gotten better!duplex 02

    #2179459
    JP
    BPL Member

    @jpovs-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2

    Locale: Arrowhead

    #2179479
    Charlie W
    Spectator

    @charliew

    OK, I finally put in my order. Now the long wait…

    Pitching this seems to be an art, based on disparities between reviews/posts:

    -Only works if set up at exactly 48" (Willis Wall)
    -Pitches well low (picture above)
    -Need 4' stick to elevate head/foot (Abela)
    -Elevate head/foot (maximally, it appears) with 1' stick (picture above)

    #2190909
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    I was doing another little overnighter last night and pitched the Duplex for the first time since last fall. I had not forgotten about the door closure riddle and so it was one of the main reasons for the trip, as well as to test some rain strategies (it was wet!) and to use the Packa for the first time.

    After pitching it, I got inside and hooked and unhooked the doors a few times to refresh my memory about the specific aspects that I found annoying.

    The main issue is that one must crawl way out to the vestibule and stick a hand outside between the panels to open the doors, and also to close them as well if the tail of the cord is out there. I'm fairly certain I have a solution for this.

    A secondary problem is that the panels can be difficult to join — specifically the loose (door) panel to the panel that is already hooked up — when the tent is pitched fairly tautly. I think (but am not sure) I have an answer for this one. I have a general idea but need to set it up when the weather is dry and play with the hardware.

    And now the question: For you guys who've used this tent, when pitched properly and the door panel/panels are cinched up tautly, does the main guyline on the side develop a lot of slack in it? Mine does, and I'm wondering if it's just something I'm doing wrong, or it works this way for all of you. If so, I'm thinking of putting a section of stout bungee somewhere in the middle of that guyline to take up the slack. Not super annoying, but something that could be addressed easily.

    #2190943
    DGoggins
    BPL Member

    @hjuan99

    Locale: Mountain West

    Are you referring to the ridgeline guylines? (the ones that extend from the peaks to the ground?)

    If so….that was one of my earlier questions. I didn't know if zpacks put a lineloc on the peaks or not, but I know that both duplexes that I have had here at the house have a lineloc 3 at the peak. I don't remember if I put them on or the previous owner did…

    So, if not, then I suggest putting a lineloc 3 at the peak so you can tension the ridgeline down to the stake. Then it doesn't lose tension at anytime whether the doors are open or closed…

    #2190948
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    Ahh, thanks Dan… (yes, I was referring to the ridgeline guyline… which is sideways on this design)

    OK, mine didn't have them, nor the D rings on the door panel corners, so I have some upgrading to do with the hardware.

    However, I've been playing with the door panel hooking and cinch/release system and have got it pretty much figured out. I hope to pitch it tomorrow to test, weather permitting.

    #2190949
    DGoggins
    BPL Member

    @hjuan99

    Locale: Mountain West

    I didn't have drings either….installed some keyring type rings, but have removed them and switched to John Abela's system. I'll see if I can pitch it today and show some pics.

    What was your idea?

    #2190987
    Bob Moulder
    BPL Member

    @bobmny10562

    Locale: Westchester County, NY

    I actually have some little steel rings (not key rings) that I plan to use to redirect the pull (cinch) cord, and to attach another cord to the plastic hardware to release the tension. Works using either 1 or 2 panels, although the 2-panel setup is the key…

    Hard to explain and not as complicated as it sounds, so I will have some pictures up ASAP, maybe tomorrow — I'm anxious to test it myself! If it works, I have a few extra rings and I'll be glad to send one to you if want to try it. Key rings might work, but I'm thinking the solid rings will cause less friction, which is somewhat of a factor. My wife just assisted me and the tension and de-tension worked well.

    But maybe I'm getting a little ahead of myself. I'll test tomorrow and share the results. It works great in the den, but who knows?

    #2191011
    DGoggins
    BPL Member

    @hjuan99

    Locale: Mountain West

    Yeah….unfortunately I'm not quite following you with how you are threading the cord through the rings, what kind of plastic hardware you are using, etc. But it sure sounds interesting!

    Supposedly zpacks has another idea for closing the doors, though the info hasn't been released yet, which is a shame b/c if they did they could solicit advice/comments from the community.

    Anyway, here is my implementation of John's idea. After removing the previous hardware (small key rings, carabiner, one lineloc) and adding the two lineloc buckles, it turns out it was exactly the same weight.

    You can see some gap here side1
    d1

    side1
    d2

    side2
    d3

    side2
    d4

    So, depending on my exact pitch, there was more or less gap between the two doors. I also experimented with different arrangements (both buckles close to the doors, both far, etc) and decided that I could get the best configuration if I had the first buckle a bit far away (so tied with longer cord to the tieout) and the second buckle tied as close as possible to the tieout.

    #2191014
     
    BPL Member

    @rememberthelorax

    Hey guys, I put together a video that shows how I have been playing around with all of this. I realize the crappy photos I posted at facebook where not all that helpful. Hope this helps.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SChnSL7xxMQ

    #2191021
    DGoggins
    BPL Member

    @hjuan99

    Locale: Mountain West

    Thank you for the video. Gave me some thoughts.

    So, I think I mentioned this in a previous post, but I do think it would be better if you had your lineloc 3s on the 4 perimeter corners be attached to the guyout loop (so the lineloc is close to the tent, not the stake). Various reasons…its higher off the ground and you can pinch the tent and pull so you can then pull the line taut instead of pulling cord then pulling taut (if that makes sense). I do have the ridgeline linelocs at the apex….for the same reason you said (you can pull the apex towards you and then pull the line taut which is easier than pulling the line and then pulling taut).

    Interesting idea about the offset ridgeline guylines though. However, since you have 2 guylines coming from the apex, aren't you at 3 required stakes for the ridgeline area instead of the original 1?

    I do like the idea of having one door non adjustably staked to the ground (pull off the stake if you absolutely had to have both doors opened) though I would worry about not being able to get that door completely tight without some sort of tensioning system.

    That idea though does solve the problem that I currently have with the buckle system. Its not a huge problem, but I can't put enough horizontal tension on the door bottom perimeter since the buckles are more primarily pulling "down" on the doors. This is less a problem with the carabiner system since the doors are latched closer together at the bottom. You can see it in this pic a bit where the bottom of the door looks slightly flappy ->

    d5

    #2191027
     
    BPL Member

    @rememberthelorax

    Hey John,

    >>> I do think it would be better if you had your lineloc 3s on the 4 perimeter corners be attached to the guyout loop

    Yeah, agreed.

    It would make it significantly easier to tighten them. Same, as the apex switcheroo. I need to find a way to make that happen without a sewing machine.

    >>> Interesting idea about the offset ridgeline guylines though. However, since you have 2 guylines coming from the apex, aren't you at 3 required stakes for the ridgeline area instead of the original 1?

    Two aspects to that. My main reason for the double apex guylines is because every time I have had a "Plex" shelter fail (of the three I have owned) it was because the guyline pulled out when it was muddy and windy. Of course a rock should solve this, but the idea of playing around with things keeps some of us (myself included) entertained… eh. Oddly enough, here in the Redwoods, I rarely am able to find a rock heavy enough to keep a stake in the ground when its really muddy, so this is something actually beneficial to me to solve. One guyline might pop out, but two… that would have to be crazy. Yeah, I would be at three stakes if I went with the double apex guylines AND the double-stake-door-idea. Would mean 12 total stakes. 156 grams / 5.5 ounces… just for stakes. But, having a shelter stay up in the worst conditions…

    >>> I do like the idea of having one door non adjustably staked to the ground

    It was an idea I pulled in from my days of using the SMD Skyscape X. It worked on that shelter VERY well, figured it would be worth giving it a go on the Duplex. I have done it the last two trips and find it to be pretty nice. Easy enough to switch which door is staked, to help with any wind deflection I may or may not want (but usually do want airflow passing through the tent).

    >>> I can't put enough horizontal tension on the door bottom perimeter

    YEAH. I have had that problem with every shelter in the "plex" lineup. Your photo shows perfectly what the issue is. The only way I ever solved it is with the one-stake-per-door method. I can *sometimes* get it to work with this whole snap-buckle method. Usually it involves me having to move out the apex stake further from the tent… but that causes sooooo many other issues. I think by shortening the amount of cordage (as I mentioned in the video, I need to shorten them by 50% or more) might help this problem, without pushing out the apex stake further from the shelter. (????)

    Thanks for posting photos of your setup. Very very interesting that this method ends up being the same with as the standard configuration that zpacks is using. If I owned a sewing machine and was willing to do the modifications, I'd probably just go with the route you did and cutting off everything and attaching all this hardware permanently. My hope, though, is that through all of this we can nail down a method that really works – even better than this method – and then get somebody to do it to mine. So, yeah, lets keep the ideas and techniques and experimentations flowing!

    #2191030
    DGoggins
    BPL Member

    @hjuan99

    Locale: Mountain West

    You said ->


    It would make it significantly easier to tighten them. Same, as the apex switcheroo. I need to find a way to make that happen without a sewing machine.



    I'm not sure why you would need a sewing machine though? Just tie the linelocs to the duplex's tieouts. Its easier if you have thinner line like zpacks spectra, but I tied some of mine (like those in the picture) with Lawson glowire.

    Yours is actually even easier (and on the previous duplex I owned this is how I did it with the apex lineloc). I had the same thing as you…lineloc 3s with grosgrain from zpacks. Just cow hitch it to the tieout loop. Pull tight and it will never come undone (especially since you are retightening it every time you pitch the tent).

    Edit: And cowhitching the linelocs with the grosgrain loop is a bit nicer than attaching via line…b/c the grosgrain keeps the lineloc in one place instead of twisting around like can happen with line.

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