Lightest pack with a stay?

Gossamer Gear sells a light aluminum stay (3-ish oz) that could be added to a variety of different lightweight packs keeping the weight under 20 oz

of course I'm sure Chris could come up w/ something as well :)

what kind of volume and what kind of loads are you looking at?

Does it have to be aluminum?

^ yeah, carbon would open up some other options including the Arc Blast- sub 20 even in the 60l version

Lots of light packs there with those.

Ideally, 50 liters with nice compression. To me, that's a good size all-around pack. Max loads would probably be around 40-50.

I know about the packs with carbon and delrin stays and that they're under 20oz. That's why I specifically mentioned aluminum ;)

I sent a request in to Chris to see what he thought.

My old GG Mariposa was 17oz with a 3.4oz removable aluminum stay that pushed it to just over 20oz. Max load would have to be 30 lbs. To get something under 20oz with an aluminum stay to handle 40lbs. plus, sounds like Chris Zimmer is your best bet. Maybe something really clean and stripped down in hybrid cuben, with a beefy hip belt, beefy shoulder straps….sounds tough. A lot of his stuff with the aluminum frame seem to start in the mid-20 ounce range and then go up from there.

A limiting factor is how much weight you want to put in this thing. A frame puts a lot of stress on the pack. The fabric around it needs to be reinforced or it will tear out (been there done that). Now if the weight in the pack is fairly light this is less of a problem. But if you put 40 pounds in a pack made of 2.92 oz fabric you will tear it up (see Ryan Jordan's report on the original HMG Porter).

With all these factors its tough to make a pack lighter then the mid 20oz range. Many designs have started lighter and got heavier as pack designers added reinforcements to keep packs from tearing apart.

Examples to look at would be the Gossamer Gear Gorilla and the ULA Ohm. They are proven designs and I don't think anyone other then Zpacks has made anything significantly lighter.

Yeah, I just received a message back from Chris (fast!). He said that with the features I was looking for, the pack would be in the 30oz range. I think the pack would have to be stripped to get close to 20oz with a aluminum stay. If it can be done at all.

I wish the Ohm 1.0 was still available. Wasn't that thing 20oz with the hoop stay?

As someone who has used a stripped down pack (HMG Porter) they can be a bit of a pain. With a light pack its easy to pull it off and grab stuff. But with a heavy load its a real bother. I think side pockets and a front pocket are worth the weight. I you are carrying truly light load go frameless or get a Zpacks. If you need to carry more go heavier. Since you live in Dallas I'm guessing some West Texas water hauling is in your future?

You may be clairvoyant.

12 liter, 4 day, Big Bend trip :)

40 to 50 lbs is unrealistic in any pack at or under 20 oz… stripped down or not… unless you can find some 'unobtainium' to work with :)

billy

"12 liter, 4 day, Big Bend trip :)"

12 liters would be light for a Big Bend trip, unless you are caching water. In any case carrying that much water puts you in a whole different weight class. All the packs I can think of that would carry that much are at least 2 pounds. Do NOT skimp to save a few oz here. Trust me a pack that distributes weight well will be much better then one that saves a few oz.
I would look at these options in no particular order

1. Exped Lighting – Durable, comfortable hipbelt, weighs about 38-38oz. Used mine many times in the desert. This pack has no back padding. Normally not a big deal but with lots of water bottles I sometimes pack it "burrito" stlye like a frameless pack.
2. Hybrid version of the Unaweep – Dave C. did a really cool project on the Unaweep frame and hipbelt. I essentially copied him and I really like the result. Mine is right at 2.2 pounds on my airport scale. If you don't want to MYOG you could see if Chris Zimmer would make one. PM me if you go this route and I'll help you out with the details.
3. Stock version of the Unaweep – Heavy but it does the job.

I agree with Luke on this, don’t skimp on support just to save a few ounces. I would add the Elemental Horizons Kalais. 31 oz. in large but carries really well, I have carried up to 40# with it just fine and I do a lot of Big Bend and other desert walks with up to 12 liters sometimes.

Here is my search for such a pack

The question you should probably be asking is what is the lightest pack with a stay and a decent hipbelt. I have had a couple of light framed packs with poor hipbelts that did not carry weight well. I actually prefer a frameless pack with ridge rest and a wider/longer hipbelt to a framed pack with little "wings".

That said for longer trips with more weight and a bear can I broke down and got a McHale LBP 36. It's right at 3lbs with two hipbelt pockets and two (fantastic) water bottle pockets, which is heavier than any pack I have had since about 2006. It has a fantastic frame and hipbelt though.

Excellent summary Luke. Trying to get a ~45 liter pack, which has durable fabrics and can legit carry 40 pounds, under 2 pounds total weight has been a question to which I've given a lot of thought. As of now I think it's only barely possible. Better to accept another 4-8 ounces and have a decent range of features.

What Dave said. 30 pounds easy; 40 pounds is crossing the lines of physics. A Gossamer Gear Mariposa comes close at 35 pounds recommended max. Water and food the issue?

Just noticed Zpacks is offering the Arc Blast in Dyneema X. They say it adds 3oz. So the total weight would be right around 20 oz depending on other features. A 20oz pack that can carry 30-35 pounds and isn't super fragile sounds pretty cool. My old Jam 2 was 21oz and frameless.

"Just noticed Zpacks is offering the Arc Blast in Dyneema X. They say it adds 3oz. So the total weight would be right around 20 oz depending on other features. A 20oz pack that can carry 30-35 pounds…"

The operative word here is 'can'.
I find anything over 25lb in my Arc Blast to be unacceptable uncomfortable.
And, yes, I know that will vary from person to person… but there are many that have shared that experience.

Billy

Hum interesting Billy, I thought most could do 30 with that pack.

I think I have come up with my perfect pack design. First I would make a lighter version of the Unaweep hipbelt. Its a one piece belt that attaches to the frame with grommet tabs and screws. Instead of the Unaweep frame I'd use twin aluminum bars. These bars would fit into sleaves on the pack with the very bottom exposed. The hipbelt would bolt on at the bottom. It would be sort of like an HMG pack but with the awesome hipbelt of the Unaweep. Rough guess is 6 oz for hipbelt, 5 for stays plus around 15-18 for the pack bag. So around 26-29 total. I'd love to try it but my MYOG Unaweep design isn't a whole lot heavier and its more proven. So this new idea will be on hold until I make at least one more pack on that pattern (I need a BIG pack for this summer).

"I wish the Ohm 1.0 was still available. Wasn't that thing 20oz with the hoop stay?"

More like 24, but it will carry up in the mid 30's. I've done it on a number of occasions. The problem is that it will get uncomfortable after a couple of hours with the stock hip belt wings. I just tried to get ULA Chris to swap in a pair of Circuit hip belt wings on my old OHM 1.0, attached directly to the stays like the original hip belt wings, but he says they don't do customizing. He also doesn't think it would be an improvement. I disagree on that point, but since he's calling the shots that doesn't count for much. If anyone listening in knows of someone who could do that kind of modification, please let me know. I'd love to have the carrying capability of the OHM 1.0 with the comfort of Circuit hip belt wings. I'm certain enough that there will be a considerable improvement that I'm willing to pay to prove the point, and end up with an OHM that carries 35# or so in reasonable comfort. It would allow me to extend my trips to ~14 days or so un-resupplied.

To the OP: Jep Paks advertises a 50L pack weighing 30.6 oz with a load rating of 40 lbs. It has an aluminum frame. I've never used or tried on one of their packs, but it could be worth looking into. I have no idea where they get 40 lbs from

Edit: here's a link:

http://www.jeppaks.com/ultralight-expedition-pack-1-2

@Tom: that seems like a project Zimmerbuilt or Jep Paks might be able to do. Even ZPacks or Oware might do it if you ask

What are your guys thoughts on Zpacks claim for their new Arc Haul? Comfortable at 40 lbs I'm hearing and 24 ounces.

From all the info I've ever seen (including opinion) it seems that <2lbs and 40lbs capacity is the threshold- assuming some level of comfort. (including "carrying it well")

—-I guess I should say that 35lbs is the threshold, 40 would be an advancement