MSR Flylite — Reviews?

I don't have much to add other than I am interested in this new tent as well, along with SD Tensegrity 2 Elite. 25oz… not bad.

I have been interested in trying out a Flylite as soon as possible.I have kept an eye on MSRs dealer inventories to see when they would be up for sale.

Well ,something VERY WEIRD is going on with MSRs 2015 tent lineup and the Flylite in particular.

Unlike last year when the new Hubba NX tents were released,
the MSR Website has NOT neen updated yet for 2015 (HELLO folks, its almost March.1st!)
and second, there are NO Flylites in the pipeline and apparently,none on the horizon..

I called BOTH MSRs marketing dept AND the sales staff of several major MSR dealers and NONE of them had an rough ETA on the Flylites..

Something is amiss and its all very UN MSR for a new design to be MIA at this late date..

nm

http://www.rei.com/product/881556/msr-flylite-tent

Several things could be causing a delay with the Flykite.

The first is, that it IS a superlight build for MSR, lighter than anything they have done before. Probably quite a bit of last minute tweeking still to be done to beef up certain points that may have failed in pre production samples.

Second,unlike last year where MSR had a mass lauch of a half dozen new tents, the Flylite might be the only new shelter for 2015 so the lack of a big push may
be due to that..Also, at that pricepoint (nearly the same as a Hubba Hubba), the dealer response to the Flylite may have been lacklustre..

Then ,there is the fact that one of then largest Chinese tent makers closed last year. Production space could be tight and getting the first run scheduled might have been problematic ,especially considering its such a unique UL build for them.

Whatever the reasons, they are being tight lipped about it and their are no firm delivery dates that have been given to anyone I have spoken with at MSR.

Or they could be tied up by the port labor issues. Lot's of companies waiting for product that is tied up in the ports, on ships waiting to unload at the ports or not yet shipped because of the port problems.

It's obvious they are teaming up with the BSA and waiting for Sierra Designs and Skurka to release their designs first. I can't wait for MSR to show those posers how it's done.

I had the opportunity to see and crawl into a Flylite at the Boulder Litepackers meeting in January. Quite impressive, actually, even though it was pitched indoors. Construction looked solid, pitch was taut, and interior space seemed quite generous – more like a 2+ person tent. Mind you, these are my impressions. The only concern I had at the time centered around how waterproof the fabric would be.

The tent has been advertised on REI's website, but I see that it has been pulled. The footprint is still available for "pre-order" if you are an optimist. My money would be on product being tied up in port somewhere.

"The only concern I had at the time centered around how waterproof the fabric would be."

Yes, the 20D floor (1200mm HH listed) and 10D fly (1000mm HH listed) may not be sufficient for this tent design (relatively flat-looking roof). But many of the major tent-makers seem to be going this way to save weight.

Ahh – I was referring to the Flylite, but I can see how that wasn't very clear. The SD T2E is also pretty decent at ~35oz trail weight.

"Yes, the 20D floor (1200mm HH listed) and 10D fly (1000mm HH listed) may not be sufficient for this tent design (relatively flat-looking roof). But many of the major tent-makers seem to be going this way to save weight."

The floor could be supplemented with a poly ground cloth, but not much you could do up top if the 10D didn't cut it. Wasn't the GoLite Imogene tarp 10D?

They should have created an awning like the Tensegrity-1-elite – I don't understand why they made it so short.

A longer version would have added not much weight but you could cook/store things outside.

From the UK:

Looks like they will be shipping from backcountry in April:

http://www.backcountrygear.com/ultralight-tents/flylite.html#.VQCcVfnF84A

I would suspect delays at the port are the culprit, but I don't know.

Since the 6'3" MSR guy (Dale) is the best friend of the 6'2" Sierra Designs guy (me), (who used the be the MSR guy), I doubt the rivalry will be as juicy as the comments on BPL.

All these shelters: the MSR FlyLite and the entire range of SD shelters are all similar. In fact all descended from the MSR Missing Link, which was originally designed as an avalanche shelter for Himalayan faces (long story). They all use drop doors and awnings vs vestibules, which fundamentally changes the camping experience particularly in poor weather where it really matters.

As a result, I think both the Tensegrity and the FlyLite represent a new and better approach to lightweight backpacking shelters.

My only minor gripes with the FlyLite is that the awning coverage is not deep enough (needs 4-6 more inches), and the non convertible door saves weight but at the expense of ventilation. But then again, I helped make the Tensegrity, which executes these differently (and eats the weight penalty.

This site mentions using the flylite:
http://erinp220.blogspot.ca/2014_07_01_archive.html?m=1
They started their PCT hike with a ray way tarp and net tent but got their hands on a flylite. They mentioned that the condensation could be bad, the roof pooled water and, toward the end of their trip, had their tarp and net tent mailed back to them. I've used the tarp and net tent and am not tempted to switch to a flylite at all. If you look at the pictures of the interior, there isn't really a ton of ventilation. I expect condensation would be problematic quite often. I've owned a single wall tent and appreciate just how much ventilation is needed to keep it dry inside. From my perspective, it doesn't look too promising.

MSR gave this thing a flat roof??? Unbelievable. (But far too consistent.)

OK, it would be fine if you got no more than a light sprinkling of rain in calm weather, but the instant you get some wind from the rear, to push the roof down, and some heavy rain at the same time, you are going to end up with a bucket full of water hanging over your head. The roof will leak under those conditions – if not at first, then after a year or two, the roof (the whole tent) may collapse under the load, and in cold weather it will be a wonderful condensation surface right above the middle of the floor.

Too many of MSR's tent designs these days have been done by non-outdoors people with zero knowledge of bad weather. Graphics designers maybe? Sketch up something pretty, and send it to Asia.

Poor Larry P.

Cheers

What would you guys see as a _working_ alternative? The Tensegrity Elites?

After initially dismissing this as a solo option because of the 82" length, I got back on the bandwagon after meeting an MSR rep, who explained that the guy who designed this is 6'3" (my height), obviously he's talking about Michael's friend, and he uses a proto Flylite all the time. I've seen all sparse the internet reviews, including the PCT blog. So, to stir the pot, here we go:

1) Michael, first thanks for your huge contributions to the forum. Much appreciated, learned a lot. The UK video implies that the front door does have mesh that can be zipped up, so is that wrong, or do you mean something else by the door not being "convertible"? I agree that this would be a condensation nightmare w/o front mesh.

2) The PCT folks who found condensation/leak issues must have had a proto, given the timing of their hike. They did not have kind things to say, and sound like super experienced outdoors folks. So this gives me some pause. I can find no other review in rain conditions. The "complimentary biscuit" review of the production version says little condensation, and it sounds like he was set up where he would have expected a problem if there was one. Would it be logical to assume these rain/condensation issues might be corrected in the production version?

3) The roof is sort of flat, but also appears to be significantly pitched front to back. This is evident in the UK video walk-around. Under a tight pitch, wouldn't water roll downhill and off? Or do wise and experienced tent folks like Roger look at this and still see an issue?

The MSR Fast Stash seems to be getting significantly discounted given the pending arrival of the Flylite. While heavier, it does seem to have more front awning coverage, and the side entrance would give me no pause, because I'll use it solo. But it does look like a devil to get a tight pitch with, and have a large footprint that might limit your choice of set-up sites.

OK, take me to school everyone.

Joe,
I have found that condensation is a problem due to design and lack of ventilation and nothing to do with fabrics. The tent in the pictures taken by the PCT folks look identical to the production model, so I doubt the condensation will be any better. I have (but never use any more) a Eureka Zeus Exo 2 and the condensation was maddening. I was surprised at how little the venting worked and how the condensation seemed to change sporadically, depending on conditions. In the right conditions, the flylite will get condensation. The surface area of the vents is just too small. I read somewhere that no-see-um netting blocks 70% of air movement. The surface area of the vents seems even smaller when you consider that.

That being said, the condensation in my Zeus Exo was significantly more manageable when there was only me in the tent. It was unmanageable in most conditions if I shared my tent. This could explain the different experiences that the PCT folks and the biscuit guy had.

The PCT folks also said the water pooled right where the pole was supporting the tent over their feet. I could definitely see water pooling there once the roof had sagged from saturation. You could probably re-tension the tent, but then you would have to get out in the rain.

Here's the photo from the PCT blog, they were using a prototype

http://erinp220.blogspot.com/2014_07_01_archive.html

Hey all – I’m the product manager for shelters here at MSR and have been reading through the thread. I’m more than happy to answer any questions you all may have regarding the FlyLite. To that end, we should have some news in the next day or so on the release date. We worked closely with two PCTers this past season on the FlyLite and Erin, one of the PCTers, (whose blog was mentioned in the thread) had some feedback that she passed along after reading through the discussion that I’ve included below.

Again, if you have any questions regarding the tent or the design process, let me know.

"It’s a bummer they only picked out the negatives of our post. We definitely did appreciate the space and the ease of setup. Although I haven't seen or tried the Sierra Designs tent that they mention in the forum, it's definitely rare to have a lightweight tent that you can set up in under 2 minutes without much hassle.
I saw the comments about the awning being too small and I disagree, we found it plenty big enough to fit both of our packs, our shoes, and still have room to cook out of the rain (as long as the door is downwind, which is how that tent is meant to be pitched anyway). We also thought the interior size was great, enough room to even sit up in which most tarps wouldn't allow, especially when pitched in windy conditions.
The condensation is definitely a problem with that tent but I've never been in a single wall tent that ventilates very well. Also the fact that we had 2 people breathing in there versus 1 is probably a contributor to that. I also use the MSR Dragontail 2 tent for mountaineering and haven't found that one to be very good with ventilation either." – Erin

Terry, I apprecia you checking in, MSR is a great brand and you weighing in means a lot. Least you think otherwise, I'm still quite excited by this product, and as a tall guy who likes some room in a shelter, I am really impressed with how spacious this appears to be, the best in class height, and the really nifty way you dealt with the trucking poles. Condensation can happen in any single wall, and since I'm likely to use this solo, is a lesser factor. MSR and SD are breaking new ground here, and I for one appreciate the effort.

Any pitch suggestions, tips, lessons learned?

> Under a tight pitch, wouldn't water roll downhill and off? Or do wise and experienced
> tent folks like Roger look at this and still see an issue?
Well, I still see an issue under some conditions.

To be sure, if the tent is pitched very tightly, the rain would roll off. But, we know that under cold wet conditions the fabric can relax a bit (wierd, but that seems to be how nylon behaves), which means the roof can sag. Now add a strong wind from the rear and the roof will belly downwards and collect water.

If you are expecting mild weather and will be camping in well-sheltered places, then what I am describing may not happen. Summer camping in the Sierras maybe? I guess that defines the market which MSR is targeting. Fair enough.

But we know that people alway push the limits. Bad windy weather will cause some problems, but if you happen to use this tent in a shoulder season and get some snow on it, expect to have quite serious problems. A collapse would be well on the cards.

Now, condensation. Sadly, I think this design is going to have serious problems. I can't see any provision for ventilation at the rear end, so there will not be any clearing out of humidity, and it will condense. If you can open the rear end, that would help greatly. On the other hand, dry mild nights will likely cause no problems at all. Target market again.

HTH
Cheers