Help! My wife still too cold.

Get her a full length, warmer sleeping pad. If necessary, use a closed cell pad over the thermarest (The Gossamer Gear pads would be good for this.) I had a friend sleeping on a women's prolite who nearly went hypothermic, and my 1/4 inch Gossamer Gear pad pretty much saved her.

If that isn't enough, she will need a warmer sleeping bag.

To keep the pad from sliding, paint some thinned silicone sealer on interior of the tarptent floor.

Pam

The absolute best thing I could recommend would be an Exped downmat 9. I am a cold sleeper and tried a lot of bags but this is the ONE item that made a real difference in how I slept. It is warm AND comfortable. I sleep better on it below zero than I do in my bed at home. Really!

It’s pretty common for women to sleep colder so it’s not surprising that what might work for you might not be enough for her.

My memory is that rab didn’t have a hood. What insulation did she have for her head? Was the shawl being used for the head or over her body. If her head/neck weren’t warm enough, I would think about getting a down Balaclava. Mine cost something like $20, weights 2.4oz, and significantly extends the range I can use comfortably use my down quilt. Down booties and some warm gloves would most likely help.

The other question I would ask is did she have enough food and drink. Being low on fuel can make it very hard to get and stay warm.

As others have suggested a warmer/longer mat (or second mat) and a warmer sleeping bag would help :-) Sounds like she needs a bag that is significantly warmer than the Rab if you are going to hit similar conditions. I bring a WM Versalite for my wife in similar conditions which has more than 2x the loft of the Rab.

One suggestion I would make is the next time your with someone who just can’t get warm enough is to make some hot water bottles. They had done the trick for my daughter the couple trips when the temp drops below what her bag’s comfort range.

Some more ideas at on my good night sleep page.

On the PS: as was noted, so silicon sealer on the slick surface will do wonders.

As an owner of the Western Mountain Versalite and a 10 degree bag from Feathered Friends, I can attest to the value of a warm bag replete with a full length zipper.

Besides the greater warmth, knowing that you have a bag that is rated beyond the conditions you might face is psychologically comforting. And as Mark pointed out (great page Mark), filling a nalgene bottle or two with hot water can make all the difference. It's fantastic and will help keep you warm all night.

I will point out a few other things: I always have one pair of socks that gets worn only during sleep. These socks are NEVER used on the trail, with the possible exception of the last day. I always make sure my feet have air-dried for several minutes before putting on the new socks, as to prevent the socks from picking up moisture. Damp socks will cause you to lose valuable heat!

Also, you cannot underestimate the necessity of caloric intake. Make sure your wife eats enough, especially following long days on the trail. I did a bit of experimenting and found that on days when I ran a calorie deficit, I slept significantly colder.

Other ideas. I always make some hot soup with dinner, which helps. Instant miso soup is a easy to make. It helps warm the core.

Dirk

Thanks ya' all for the feedback.

>>I had a friend sleeping on a women's prolite who nearly went hypothermic, and my 1/4 inch Gossamer Gear pad pretty much saved her.

Already ordered GG 1/4" Thinlight but not arrived in the mail. During the night, the Prolite felt much, much colder than my Zlite. What's with this?

>>To keep the pad from sliding, paint some thinned silicone sealer on interior of the tarptent floor.

OK.

>>The absolute best thing I could recommend would be an Exped downmat 9.

Will consider this option next. Ordering stuff from the US to North Africa is a hit-n-miss affair. Also, I just spent 79 Euro each for the Prolite 4 here in Chamonix.

>>It's pretty common for women to sleep colder so it's not surprising that what might work for you might not be enough for her.

This is news to me. I will keep this thought when planning our next fun trip.

>>My memory is that rab didn't have a hood. What insulation did she have for her head? Was the shawl being used for the head or over her body.

No hood with the RAB, but she had the shawl over her head and the Eddie Bauer jacket hood on. She double layered on the wool gloves. She wearing her trail socks and forgot her spare (reason for cold feet). We had pasta and tuna dinner 1 hour before we went to sleep.

>>One suggestion I would make is the next time your with someone who just can't get warm enough is to make some hot water bottles.

Dahh…Why didn't I think of that???

>>As an owner of the Western Mountain Versalite and a 10 degree bag from Feathered Friends, I can attest to the value of a warm bag replete with a full length zipper.

Balancing weight vs comfort is always tricky. RAB 16 oz. WM Versalite 34 oz.

>>Besides the greater warmth, knowing that you have a bag that is rated beyond the conditions you might face is psychologically comforting.

I under-estimate the effect of this. My bad. I have 6 months to work on this before the TMB in July.

>>I always make some hot soup with dinner, which helps. Instant miso soup is a easy to make. It helps warm the core.

We had cold tuna and pasta but were too tired to make soup. Next time.

My main problem is trying to apply the UL strategy too stringently. Our base weight is in the 12lb region. Going solo I can be sub-8 lb. I am comfortable with tarp, tyvek, zlite and RAB with my Nikon SLR as my luxury item. However, I want to prepare my lady for a post-retirement life of backpacking around the world (like the Caffins). So I will do whatever it takes to get my lady to walk the trails with me. BTW, what do you all think of the dual quilt by Ray Jardin like the one he used in the Antartic?

Shah

What kind of socks did she have on? If the socks weren't right, they could have not wicked moisture away sufficiently, which would then make her feet colder than they normally would have been.

I've had a few miserable nights in the wilderness because of just such a thing.

Tom

The question you really need to ask is why was she so cold? I doubt the gear you had was faulty, even if some fine tuning is still in order.

The first reason she was cold is probably because she was losing LOTs of heat from her head. I am sure she was NOT aware of this as your body will keep your head warm **no matter what the cost to the rest of your body**. So buy her a Cocoon balaclava. For that matter, if none of you have good balaclavas, buy three. Trust me, you will love them!

> We had cold tuna and pasta but were too tired to make soup. Next time.
The second reason your wife could not get warm is simple: not enough fuel. Under those conditions you need HOT food, in generous quantity. I know the symptoms of being too tired to cook, but by not making a generous hot dinner under those conditions you are putting all three of you at risk. EAT! And hot food!

> BTW, what do you all think of the dual quilt by Ray Jardin like the one he used in the Antartic?
Well, as you can guess, I love having a large hot water bottle in bed with me … Sorry, I like sleeping next to my wife. We found it made a huge difference – but we also had balaclavas and good dinners.

Roger
Thanks for the good tips.
BTW did you design and make your own double quilt?…or Ray Jardine's?

Being female and having spent plenty of cold nights, maybe I can offer some insight. I've been cold at night for a few reasons, both with a quilt and with a traditional sleeping bag.

The first thing I noticed is that you and your daughter shared two sleeping bags. I'm assuming that you layered them on top of each other. If that's correct than the combined sleeping bags probably equaled about 3" of loft over two people sharing body heat. Your wife, with a 32°F bag would have had about 2" of loft over her, plus she had only her own body heat. Kids put off a tremendous amount of heat, so I'd suggest letting your wife and daughter share a sleeping bag.

The second problem may be the top bag itself. BPL's review states, "Bottom (uninsulated) panel is too wide for standard sleeping pads and doesn’t seal, resulting in serious heat loss." Combined with the fact that she was only using a short pad, the top bag may not have been offering much heat retention at all.

If her feet were cold, I'd suggest a pair of Sierra Designs down booties or socks. They're light, make excellent camp footwear, and are WARM. They're my favorite piece of gear in cooler weather and really help me keep warm when I'm pushing the limits of my sleep system.

For similar conditions, I would use my 20°F quilt (22 oz), Exped DownMat short (22 oz with pump), and the hood from my GoLite Coal parka. I'd have my backpack stuffed with extra gear under my feet. For clothing I'd have my Smartwool midweight bottoms and top, adding down booties, fleece gloves, 100 wt fleece top, and a down vest if necessary. My quilt is wide enough to tuck underneath me to prevent drafts and long enough that I can pull it over my head somewhat to help stay warm. The DownMat has a 5.9 R value, compared with 3.2 for a ProLite 4.

When it comes to staying warm, for me weight is secondary. If I'm going to be cold all night, I'm not going to enjoy my trip. If a full-length pad keeps her warm, it's worth the extra couple of ounces. If a full-blown sleeping bag is what she needs, it's worth the extra weight. Obviously you want to find the lightest possible combination that will work, but a good night's sleep is crucial for me.

Best of luck!

The RAB top bag is really a 40 degree bag to me. That is way too cold to push that bag with a short pad for a female. I would have been cold.

Full length pad, decent down bag and down socks. Yes, down socks. What was she wearing on her body? I wear wool blend thermal bottoms on the bottom, and a long sleeve top, plus hat. If I got to bed cold I also wear gloves as well.
I sleep in a 15* bag year round, if to hot, I use it as a quilt.

Women get cold for various reasons, but one is…well, we have fat you men don't have! Even boobs can get ice cold out there! It isn't easy heating a butt or said boobs up once you are cold.

You can still go UL, you just might not be going SUL!

I also second the down booties. I wear them when it is dipping below freezing.
When I determined that I was going to be doing a lot more cold weather camping, I spent a couple of nights car camping with ALL my gear before I headed into the backcountry. This way I was able to easily switch out bags, clothes, pads, etc. and fine tune the combinations that worked for me without risking a whole miserable night. In one night, I found out what worked best for me.
As mentioned, well-fed and well-hydrated before bed. I bring a bit of extra hot water to bed in a Nalgene if I even THINK I might need it and cuddle it in the crotch region.

Going to sleep on a clear starry night and waking up the next morning to see frost on the ground, is one of the joys of backpacking. IF you a WARM sleeping bag.

Get her a good down bag that's rated to 10 degrees below your expected conditions (and assume conditions are going to be a few degrees lower than the forecast.)

Comfortable sleeping clothes are: long underwear top and bottom, dry sleeping socks in wool, fleece or down, and a warm hat.

To top it off nicely her pillow is the puffy jacket or vest she brought along to keep warm during the evening at the campfire, now stuffed into a pillow case. The fact that her pillow is actually one more warm layer that she doesn't even need to stay warm is a comforting thought that will make her fall asleep easier.

I don't know if I have anything to add to this post really, but I was in the Wind Rivers in July with my wife. We were in a double-walled tent. I had an el-cheapo synthetic mummy bag that can hardly even be called a summer bag. I was a bit chilly, but I survived. My wife brought her Marmot Never Summer down bag which has quite the loft, as well as a fleece blanket. She slept on a full length pad with an R-Value of 3.1. She wasn't cold, but wasn't hot either.

Carrying that kind of gear makes it tough to get her base weight below 15 lbs. I've often considered giving her my pack and me carrying her pack. It kind of defeats the purpose of me going UL, but if it means my wife will come, then I'm happy.

P.S. We aborted early too – because of the swarming mosquitos all day. That explains why I brought the tent.

I too have a problem with cold feet. They are usually the first part of me that gets cold. I bought some fleece socks at REI (fairly cheap) in a larger size and use those over my regular socks. Make sure you get socks that are plenty big (you don't want the second pair to squeeze the main pair). Puffy socks (down or synthetic) are warmer, but heavier. It might be worth it though.

My wife and I also use GG thinlites under our regular pads when it gets cold. I have a GG Nightlight and she has a Thermarest 3/4. My pad is warmer than hers, as closed cell pads insulate better than inflatables (unless they are filled with down) so she mainly uses the extra pad for warmth and I mainly use it to get more confortable. This also solves the slipping problem, as the thinlight grips really well.

I also second the point about the hat. Adding insulation for your head is often the best way to keep your feet warm.

Hi Shahrin

> BTW did you design and make your own double quilt?…or Ray Jardine's?
Designed and made my own. But I cheated, and sent it to a friendly gear factory to get it stuffed with down. My wife hates finding down floating around the house :-)

Cheers

Chemical warmers. http://www.warmers.com/

Hot drink/food at bed time.

B vitamins give some folk a burst of heat.

Your base weights are low enough that you could afford to haul a heavier bag or insulated sleep gear. I like the versatility of a lighter bag and insulated clothing. I agree with going with a thicker ground pad too.

+1 on a Nalgene full of hot water. If you boil the water, your fuel will get double points for purifying the water and warming your wife.

Some people really have a time with cold– a number of congenital medical conditions contribute to it. My daughter always has cold hands and feet. I've been a facilties manager and one of the toughest challenges is to heat/cool an office and keep everyone comfortable. I'm comfortable in cold, but I don't like hot temperatures.

Alright, my 2 cents.

You don't need to shell out the money for another sleeping bag.
The most important thing to do is to keep the extremities warm. If her head or feet are cold the rest of her body will never be warm.
Get some nice warm head gear for her and as others mentioned the down booties.

You are looking at about a 5-6 ounce difference minus what she already has but it's also wearable.
This will be just as satisfying as a 5-6 ounce heavier bag.

Also make sure her base layer she wears to bed is a good snug fit to keep a lot of the body warmth from escaping in the first place.
If she's that cold, I'm sure there were still a lot more cloths in her pack that she could have put on???

You may even need a different bag as well if it has too much room for her.

There is also a huge difference in eating a good high calorie meal before going to sleep. Those calories are good for at least a 5-10* difference in warmth that she will be comfortable at.

Good luck!!!

Ladies & Gents
Thank you all for the feedback. I have convinced my 10 year-old to give me another chance. My wife also no longer thinks that she suffers alone. We will do a couple of car camping to tweak sleeping arrangements before our next trip.
Shah