New to Backpacking and Need Advice: My 3 Season Gear List <15 lbs

Welcome Jordan!

I'm at work and haven't read thru your whole list yet, but you've picked some nice gear. Just a couple of easy recommendations to lose weight (assuming $ isn't an issue)

1) Switch to a cuben shelter (Grace Duo will lop off a good bit of weight). I have a cuben Patrol shelter and a Zpacks Hexamid long tent.

2) Is this for two or just you? If just you, then the bug bivy (I'd use the sil version to save $ + just a nominal weight gain)

3)I rarely use stuffsacks for down gear. Stuffing them into my compactor bag packliner works great

4) Sleeping bag – Have you tried a quilt? If not, drape & tuck it around you one night and see how you like it. I switched to quilts years ago and am happy

5) Unless you "cook", you can get a 550ml pot/mug to save weight and bulk. The toaks set is like what I use

6) unless you REALLY use a knife a lot, sub one ounce is easy w/ a swiss army model (the scissors get more use than my blade), or a Gerber LST handles most anything

There's more but that's what I can offer right now.

You're smart to do it right NOW to save money later!

I assume you have seen these links already, but incase you have not you might check these out.
Mike Clelland(NOLs instructor and author),he has some great free videos on lightening up be sure to watch(his clothing system,the entire contents of his pack,water treatment and part 1 and 2 on the dinky stuff for ideas),this is an article he wrote The fastest way to backpack weight loss ,this is pmags Lightweight Backpacking 101 and The Frugal Backpacker – The $300 Gear Challenge .These are some other articles and videos for you to check out

Backpacking for Cheap: Gear for the Gearless

Backpacking Checklist (Gear List): 3-Season, 3-Day

Lightweight Backpacking 101: An Introductory Manual for Lightening Your Load Today (1st Edition – August 2001)

Cheap Ultralight Gear List

Ultimate Hiking Gear & Skills Clinic

Oregon Field Guide: Ultralight Hiking

Lightweight Testimony: Lighter, Farther, Faster
Jamie Shortt talks about his progression and shows his gear list for each stage, Lightweight Testimony: My Journey into Lightweight Backpacking
CleverHiker Light weight Basics
CleverHiker Trail Skills

Shelter/Sleeping – 87.77 oz subtotal
MLD SilNylon Grace Tarp Duo – 16 oz .
MLD SilNylon Serenity Bug Shelter – 15 oz (Alternatively, I also have a 2 oz ground cloth if it's not buggy. Thoughts?)
MLD Carbon fiber poles – 2.55

– 33.5 oz is a HUGE amount for a solo shelter. You can do way better than that….either go cuben, or look at other shelters. yes, don't take the bug shelter in non-bug seasons, but depending on where you live that may be a super tiny window.

Vargo Ti Stakes (8) – 2.12 oz
Space blanket – 1 oz // WHY?? seriously, what is a space blanket for??

Kelty 20 Cosmic Down sleeping bag – 41 oz (Super heavy, I know I know) – MUCH savings here. Like pounds.

MLD Stuff sack, large – 1.1 oz – WHY??? no need for stuff sacks. Get a liner for the pack, ditch the stuff sacks and the pack cover (it never really does much anyway) and protect your down stuff inside the pack. then secure the liner, putting your other stuff (cook set, shelter, etc on top of that, inside the pack).

Ridgerest SOLite, short – 9 oz

Pack – 35.2 oz subtotal
Granite Gear Crown VC 60 – 34 oz
ZPacks pack cover – 1.2 oz — Ditch. see above.

Cooking/Water – 19.11 oz subtotal
Bear bag system – 3.2 oz
Caldera cone – 2.75 oz
Fuel bottle – .705 oz
Evernew 1.3L – 4.79 oz – awfully big for a solo?? depending on what/how you cook you'd not need more than a 900mL at MOST
12-10 Stove – .564 oz
Snow Peak spork – .5 oz
Platypus Hoser, 3L – 3.8 oz – where are you hiking?? this is a TON of water capacity.
Platy bottle, 2L – 1 oz
Sawyer Mini – 1.8 oz

Toiletries – 16.2 oz subtotal
Contacts case/saline – 2 oz
First aid kit – 6 oz (I haven't put this together yet, 6 oz seems pretty dang heavy for an estimate right?)
– YES, my FAK is 1.2 oz. you need bandaids, some neosporin, maybe a benedryl or two….

DEET insect repellent – 2.4 oz – just take what you need

Lip balm – 0.3 oz
Zpacks pack towel – 0.5 oz
Sunscreen – 2 oz
TP – 2 oz
Zpacks toothbrush/paste – 1 oz

Misc. – 22.68 oz subtotal
Zpacks mini carabiners (6) – 0.6 oz (6 biners is way too many, right?) – for what? what do you need them for??

MLD Cuben ditty bags (2) – 0.229 oz
– for what?? I use a single ditty bag for, well, ditty stuff. I have no other stuff sacks in my whole bag.

MLD Cuben zip pouches (2) – 0.705 oz
– for what? see above.

Duct tape – 1 oz
Mini lighter – 0.5 oz (and/or waterproof matches?)
Spyderco Delica knife – 3.7 oz (Alternatively, I have a 5.2 oz Leatherman – would this be better, or could I find something lighter out there?)
– yes, you can go a lot lighter than this. the ladybug is only .6 oz.

iPhone – 5 oz (Turned off and for emergencies only, mind you…)
Sewing kit – 1.5 oz
– are you making pants? what do you need such a large sewing kit for??

Sunglasses – 1.1 oz
Sunglasses retainer – 0.3 oz

Freezer bags for trash (2) – 0.35 oz
– why two? a single gallon bag seems to work really well for me, and my longest stretch between resupplies has been 11 days.

Suunto A-10 Field Compass – 1 oz

Princeton Tec LED – 0.5 oz
Coleman 3AAA LED Headlamp – 3.6 oz
Extra AAA batteries (4) – 1.6 oz
– Two headlamps? and why do you need to bring 4 extra batteries with you? depending on how long you'll be out, put in fresh batteries and call it a day. no need for spares!

Maps – 0.5 oz
Pencil/paper – 0.5 oz
– make sure to consult Bob Gross for the appropriate pencil to bring.

Clothes (Carried) – 55.84 oz subtotal
Smartwool PhD socks – 2.54 oz

Outdoor Research PL 100 gloves – 2 oz (these kind of suck for backpacking, to be honest. Any recommendations?)

Polyester T – 5 oz
– why are you carrying an extra shirt? I'm a girl and i only have 1.

Waterworks Under Wader Wear – 8 oz (these are polyester and just pulled from my fly fishing gear, so I figured I could use these and not have to buy a new pair like Patagonia's Capilene 1 bottoms. Is this assumption correct or would I be missing something by not buying a dedicated pair for backpacking?)
– you can go way lighter than 8 oz unless you need serious insulation.

Arcteryx fleece – 15 oz
– can get a lot lighter and less bulky here, too. Do you need fleece (meaning hiking a lot in hypothermic conditions)? why not a puffy?

Marmot Precip jacket – 13 oz
– mortgage your house and go WAY lighter and better. there are nice 6 oz jackets out there.

Marmot Precip pants – 9 oz
– Again, very few people actually carry true rain pants on summer trips – when the temps can be iffy then yes, consider it. But anything other than wet and 30s I just go with a rain skirt, cut off rain pants, etc.

MLD Stuff sack, large – 0.5 oz
– you and those stuff sacks!! let them go man, let it go!

There ya go. And welcome to the Dark Side!

"Space blanket – 1 oz // WHY?? seriously, what is a space blanket for??"

It's for sleeping in space!

Actually, that's one I haven't quite let go of either. It's for the everything got soaked somehow worst-case scenario.

Awesome stuff y'all! Thanks for all of the feedback so far, Todd, Link and Jennifer.

I'm mostly solo but thought the flexibility to bring an under-equipped friend would be nice. Is this dumb? Should I just gear up for one? I see that I could save a TON of weight this way, on both shelter and cooking.

Otherwise, it sounds like I'm definitely over thinking it with the stuff sacks/pack cover and not thinking at all about my clothes. Duly noted on my over indulgence in stuff sacks haha.

Jennifer- This is exactly the harsh reality check I needed! I literally laughed out loud at some of your responses. Thank you very much for the detailed look through, I'm already crossing stuff off of my gear list and back down the rabbit hole researching other options.

The dark side indeed… Now there's a SilNylon angel on one shoulder and a cuben devil on the other.

Edit: Katherine gets me. I just want to go to SPACE man. The ultimate frontier.

The important stuff doesn't have to weigh so much.

Combined weight of water treatment (Aqua Mira), Swiss Army knife, compass, whistle, headlight (Petzl E+Lite) and mini-Bic is 3.26 oz (93 grams).

A 15lb starting base weight is not bad at all.

A few strategic purchases will make a massive differnce.

Best of luck,

Actually I was thinking about testing out a different way to use a space blanket this spring.

Mors Kohansky ,the fanous survival instructor from Canada has always said folks tend to use space blankets the wrong way. They are designed to reflect radiant heat and must have distance from your body to woek well. Wrapping one around your body with full contact does not work.

I was thinking of using one as sort of a reflective tent inner to boost my sleeping temp on colder summer nights.

Its only an extra ounce, much lighter than adding extra insulation layers..I am thinking of something that could clip or velcro into my bug inner to be suspended a few inches above and around my sleeping bag..

Sounds goofy, but for one ounce, might be worth a try.

Space blankets are noisy too, add the extra weight of the "clips" and earplugs to your list. You'd likely be warmer just doing a couple crunches if you get chilled in the summer. I agree the "only an extra ounce" bit can make some sense. If you found 8 "only an extra ounce" luxuries you'd have saved a half-pound from your base weight.

As someone else mentioned, Jordan, you've done really well getting down to a fifteen pound base weight.

And like you & others noted, replacing your heavy sleeping bag with something lighter will significantly reduce the total base weight since you've got a lot of ounces that you can eliminate just by replacing that bag. How much reduction depends on factors such as conditions you want to use it for, and whether you're able/willing to combine clothing with a lighter bag to extend its comfort level for those conditions.

A lot of other stuff you list can either be eliminated or down-sized as suggested by others — smaller knife, smaller pot, smaller FAK, fewer stuff sacks, smaller sewing kit (if really want to have one, a couple of needles, a few safety pins, and some dental floss weighs almost nothing; plus the dental floss can multi-task), six fewer of those "six" mini-biners, etc.

An oz (even half an oz) here & there & and soon you're cutting pounds.

The cook kit & shelter offer room for big cuts. Those kits are a function of how much food you cook & how much space you want/need when sheltered; as well as whether you're going solo or with a partner.

Your list seems designed for two people — duo-size tarp, duo-size bug shelter,, 1.3L pot, and platys for more than a gallon of water (but maybe that's how much water you'll need for where you backpack). If you're including all that stuff because it'll be you & a friend, might consider sharing the kitchen & shelter weight with 'em & save yourself maybe 2 pounds.

If you're going solo, a pound or more is easily cut from weights you list for cook set & shelter — solo tarp, solo bug protection, smaller pot. That's in addition to a pound or so you shed with a lighter sleeping bag (quilt!).

A few things appear to be missing (gasp!) from your list. You might want to add (double gasp!!!) — (1) small dropper bottle of hand sanitizer (e.g., Purell); (2) headwear that provides warmth; and (3) a mosquito headnet.

Hand sanitizer — res ipsa loquitur. Your stomach will thank you. Plus it's a good emergency accelerant for starting a fire.

Wool (or fleece) headwear — a beanie, hoody (I like Ibex Indie), and/or balaclava — is "essential" protection in cool/cold/windy conditions. Maybe you don't backpack in those conditions. But I've heard that even in the desert it can get cold at night, and a wool or fleece beanie or hoody covering your head can extend the comfort level of a light sleeping bag (quilt!).

Mosquito headnet — if you anticipate mosquitos, a headnet is an oz or less, and more pleasant than smearing on gunk that you have to wash off.

Speaking of washing, didn't notice soap on ur list. Make that 4 add-ons. Your partner will thank you.

One more thing you might want is a handkerchief — lots of uses. And light.

You'll figure out what's best for you with experience. If there were a "perfect" 3 season list, there wouldn't be this forum. Have fun!

I agree. I've been backpacking for 10 years and I still haven't gotten down to that yet. Of course I am stubbornly hanging on to my heavy tent and pack because I am…. well… stubborn.

Although I did snag the ULA Circuit on Massdrop today. So goodbye 7lb Arcteryx Bora Hello 41 oz Circuit!!!

Now I just need to break down and pony up for a new tent….

"Pencil/paper – 0.5 oz
– make sure to consult Bob Gross for the appropriate pencil to bring."

No, that would be Nick Gatel. He has the #2 black pencil thing all locked down.

I just take a little stubby golf pencil.

–B.G.–

The biggest thing would be to buy a new sleeping bag. Don't cheap out, be ready to drop $400 on a good one. It will last you a very long time. Buy once, cry once.

Ditch the fleece for a down jacket. A lot more warmth for the weight.

Do you really need rain pants? Most people only use them for cold rain and snow.

You could get some lighter long underwear.

I carry a mora 2/0 knife. It's a 1.9 ounce (with sheath) fixed blade knife. A lot more capable than any folding knife.

As has been said you are doing quite well already. 15lb base is a decent light weight base number. The closer you get to 10lbs the closer you will be to UL, and that is a sickness I wish upon no one ;)

You have been given a lot of good advice already. I think you'll find over the next year or so a lot of your smaller 1-3 ounce items you'll find you either don't need or will find lighter replacements or multi use replacements and will reduce a lb or so organically through experience.

My general philosophy is to make your money go the furthest first. To me that means saving 20 ozs or so by getting a 20 degree quilt and going stoveless. Stoveless isn't for everyone but it can usually save people a lb or so off the bat so it is worth looking into further. This book talks about it a lot and overall I found it very helpful in my learning of how to lighten my gear intelligently: http://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Backpackin-Tips-Inexpensive-Lightweight-ebook/dp/B00MJD6LVS/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1424530471&sr=1-1&keywords=ultralight+backpacking+tips+by+mike+clelland

After that you'll have lost a couple lbs and will have to decide if it is worth the money for you to get lower. You have a nice light weight tarp and nest set up, but you do have room to go lighter. Many of the zpacks shelters will save you lb immediately, but at a $450+ price tag. You could save another lb getting a zpacks arc blast pack or going frameless like one of the MLD packs. But again the arc blast is ~$300 and the MLD packs are ~$200+. That is part of the sickness I didn't wish upon you earlier. Once you get your stuff pretty dialed in, it can get very costly to shave what the real world would call small amounts of weight.

Depending on your financial situation I would get a lighter sleeping bag/quilt, research the stoveless idea a bit, and hit the trail and see how you do. If after gaining more experience with your set up you decide you want to go lighter, you'll have a good idea where to go next and what it will cost. If money isn't really a concern, you know where to look and I hope you enjoy your shopping. It is one of my favorite parts, but I'm just another gear whore :) Good luck to you!

Edit to add: Another idea similar to the stoveless idea that also isn't for everyone is going the poncho route. You have 22 oz of rain gear. There are a couple good 6 oz or less poncho options out there that also eliminate your need for a pack cover. Lukes ultralight makes one that is 5.x ozs and oversized. Again a poncho isn't for everyone and can be a poloarizing subject around here, but it works very well for me and many others. Ditching your jacket, pants, and pack cover for a 5.5 oz poncho would save you more than a lb.

Man oh man, thanks for everyone's replies! I'm making major changes after all of this feedback. The biggest change is dropping to solo gear and a no-cook setup. I figure I'll at least give no-cook meals a shot before I add the weight of cooking gear. I'm eliminating/replacing a few other items as well, per y'all's ideas.

Let's see…

Eliminating:
Space blanket – 1 oz
MLD Stuff sack, extra large – 1.1 oz
MLD Stuff sack, large – 0.5 oz
MLD Cuben zip pouches (2) – 0.705 oz
ZPacks pack cover – 1.2 oz
Caldera cone – 2.75 oz
Fuel bottle – .705 oz
Evernew 1.3L – 4.79 oz
12-10 Stove – .564 oz
Freezer bags for trash (1) – 0.175 oz
Zpacks mini carabiners (6) – 0.6 oz
Some of my DEET – 1 oz
Extra AAA batteries (4) – 1.6 oz
Polyester T – 5 oz
Marmot Precip pants – 9 oz

Replacing:
MLD SilNylon Grace Tarp Duo – 16 oz with a Solo @ 12 oz
MLD SilNylon Serenity Bug Shelter – 15 oz with a Solo @ 10 oz
Platypus Hoser, 3L – 3.8 oz with a 1L Hoser @ 3.2 oz
Spyderco Delica knife – 3.7 oz with a lighter knife @ 1 oz (TBD which one)
Sewing kit – 1.5 oz with a lighter kit @ 0.5 oz
Arcteryx fleece – 15 oz with a puffy @ 10 oz (TBD which one)

I'll also add (gasp, indeed!) a couple things, per some very wise suggestions:
Hand sanitizer – 1 oz
Peanut butter jar (for no cook food) – 1.3 oz
Trash compactor bag, pack liner – 2.5 oz
Fleece beanie – 1.5 oz
Buff – 0.7 oz

Total weight savings: 41.989 oz

That means my base pack weight is down to 194.8 oz / 12.18 lbs!

Wow. I'm blown away how easy that was. I know I have room to improve on the sleeping bag (quilt!), rain jacket, headlamp, and leg bottom layer, among others, which could net me a savings of at least 25 oz. This would get me down to 10.6 lbs – almost UL!

THANK YOU so much everyone – Todd, Link, Jennifer, Katherine, Bob M, Stephen, Jimmer, Eric, Richard, Anthony, Bob G, Justin, and Logan! I might seem a little over-enthusiastic, but I'm just really impressed by how awesome of a community this forum has, after just my first post. Y'all were all really helpful.

Since it doesn't hurt to ask… Any other insights out there? Clearly, I can always go lighter ;)

You're welcome. I for one appreciate the enthusiasm.

I'm not sure where your budget is but as it doesn't seem to be a huge driving factor for you, have you considered cuben fiber? It is a lot lighter and in some respects stronger. I think it is an ideal tarp material and a less than ideal floor material, but that is another issue all together. My favorite aspect is how much easier it is to shake off water and pack it up dry versus silynylon.

Anyway the cuben grace solo is 5.9 oz. Check out this list of the lightest shelters out there it may give you some ideas. http://hikelighter.com/2015/02/12/lightest-fully-enclosed-shelters/

My favorite personal UL set up is a zpacks hexamid solo plus (it is cuben fiber and less than 5 oz with guy line and stuff sack attached) and silynylon floored bivy (7.2oz in stuff sack) for a 12.2 oz. Add 2.1oz for my stake system and its 14.3 ozs all in. A cuben grace solo and silnylon serenity net would put you in that ball park. Cuben both would put you right there.

Personally I wouldn't replace a sil grace duo with a sil grace solo as the weight difference isn't huge and the extra protection may be valuable to you at times. I would however switch to a cuben solo as the weight savings will be huge. If money is a factor it is often times better to hike with something heavier until you can afford to get the cuben item you want, as opposed to settling on a slightly lighter sil version. If you are anything like me you'll end up with the cuben one anyway ;)

Regarding the stoveless, you are doing it right by giving it a try. It is not for everyone so no shame in deciding you want a stove. I go stoveless in warmer weather and bring a stove when it is cold. It works for me.

Best of luck!

Logan, thanks for those additional ideas. Cuben is on my radar, but that's the one place I wouldn't let my budget wander… yet! A cuben shelter and a lighter sleeping bag (quilt!!) are definitely the easiest places to lighten my pack in the future. However, since those are both pricey and I'm buying a ton of new gear anyway, I went with pretty affordable alternatives in the meantime. Great suggestion nonetheless! I'm sure I'll catch the cuben bug eventually.

So… After all this tinkering, I'm down to a base pack weight of 11.67 lbs. Woo!!!

My final moves were to go with a lighter rain shell (OR Helium II @ 6.4 oz) and a super light puffy (Borah Gear down jacket @ 5.15 oz). I saw the Borah sale over on a Gear Sale thread (still going on), so it was a no-brainer to pick up this 850+ water-resistant down jacket for about half the cost of a MH Ghost Whisperer. What a deal to close out the hunt! I'm definitely a happy camper (sorry, I couldn't resist).

Thanks again to everyone here. I seriously could not have done it without y'all and otherwise would be stuck at 15 lbs! It really goes to show that every ounce counts.

Nice! Sounds like you have a very reasonable plan for dropping more weight if and when the time comes and you have done a great job dropping a bunch already. An 11-12lb base weight will rarely hold anyone back from doing what they want to do on the trail. You might be a little more comfortable or a little faster dropping more, but you are at a really good spot as is.

Ditch your big 4 and buy the proper SUL Big 4 from the start else you will sell it all. Forget what you are planning to buy and buy lighter and leave some stuff out.

Your strategy should be 6# or under big 4 and the rest of your gear 6# or under which will give you a 12# or under base weight. If you buy small Eq then you can use a smaller packs = lighter.

Zpacks Zero or Arc pack 10-16oz
Pack liner – 2 oz
Use a cuben parcho or a poncho at 5 oz and eliminate the pack cover
Down Quilt – 18-20 oz
Ridgerest SOLite, short – 9 oz
Cuben tarp and Bearpaw SUL net tent – 16oz
Ground cloth – Polycro – 1.5-2oz
Cordage from Zpacks, IE the lightest- 2oz
Stakes MSR carbon core or titanium – .2 oz each +- x 8 = 1.6oz

Above is a 4.3# big 4 for the largest numbers.

Get rid of the stuff you dont need.

Shelter/Sleeping – 87.77 oz subtotal – Too heavy see above

Pack – 35.2 oz subtotal – too heavy see above

Cooking/Water – 19.11 oz subtotal – Too heavy – could be about 8-12 oz

Toiletries – 16.2 oz subtotal – You can do this in about 8-10 oz

Misc. – 22.68 oz subtotal – reduce to 8-12 oz

Clothes (Carried) – 55.84 oz subtotal – reduce to roughly 42 oz

3 season – Above Puts you at roughly 11# base but you have to omit some things and lighten up across the board.

Save and spend the $ now. Its worth it.

You should be able to hit 12# pretty easy and without spending a fortune.
When you start going below 10# with full equipment it gets expensive.

I think you are missing a few odds and ends ?

I think a super easy way to save about 10-12 oz is on your rain gear. I think your current total is 22 oz for jacket and pants. Frog Toggs I think weighs about 14 oz total for the jacket and pants. It's only about $22 for the set. You can convert the pants into a kilt to save a couple of ounces. I saw directions somewhere on the web on how to do this. Unless it's horizontal rain, I love my zpacks kilt because I don't have to take off my shoes to get it on and more importantly, there is massive ventilation. Btw, I don't hike in horizontal rain conditions. ;-) I'm going off of memory for the weights but I think I'm fairly close. I'm still pretty new to bpl, so this is just my 2 cents worth.