mountain hardware phantom 0 or marmot lithium?

The Lithium is indeed a more generously cut bag. Here's the comparison:
Should Girth: (M) 61 (MH) 59
Hip Girth: (M) 57 (MH) 53
Foot Girth: (M) 39 (MH) 39

I own the lithium and love it and would be happy to answer any questions you have about it. When I bought mine it retailed for less than $500 I see they now have it prices north of $600. That's not nearly the same value proposition that made me choose it over others. It used to be one of the cheapest ways to get a DWR down 0deg bag, now it is one of the more expensive.

Honestly given your build, I would probably go for the Mountain Hardware if you're dead set on those two options. I don't think you would need all of the space in the Lithium and MSRP on the MH is now $50 less than the Marmot. Also because the is BPL I should probably nod to the fact that the Phantom weighs less (mostly from fill, though that can probably be attributed to its narrower cut as the EN rating on the MH is a couple degrees higher than the Marmot)

Once more let me know if you have any more questions about the lithium.

It's also nice to have space for a water bottle or two, electronics, a fuel canister and damp clothes to dry out.

" Also because the is BPL I should probably nod to the fact that the Phantom weighs less (mostly from fill, though that can probably be attributed to its narrower cut as the EN rating on the MH is a couple degrees higher than the Marmot)"

I had both these bags on my living room floor testing them last fall (and the Marmot Plasma too). From actually weighing them and reading the fill tags and EN rating tags here is what I found out:

Phantom is 2.4 oz less weight over all than the Lithium. They both list as 28 oz of fill.
But the fill is 850 for the lithium and 800 for the Phantom. The EN rating for the Phantom is NOT higher; it is lower (2F for the Phantom; 6F for the Lithium. I will note that I think the Lithium was due for a design change this spring so there may be a newer model out now/soon with different specs.

As for the dimensions. You can not rely on published measurements. There are so many variables, including the fact that each manufacturer can take the measurements at different locations.

I am 5'7" and 150lb and found I fit into the Phantom nicely with down pants and down jacket. I did not buy either bag as I had an injury and would not be able to do winter trips this year so I sent them both back and will reconsider next fall. But I did make a decision: The Phantom is a better fit and it has better construction and it has more loft and Lower EN rating.

Billy

I would add that when I say the Phantom is a better fit for me even with down pants and jacket, I like a fairly snug fit as it leaves less air to heat with your body heat. A snug fitting bag will be warmer than a roomy fit bag with the same EN rating. So I am willing to give up some comfort of a roomy bag in favor of it being warmer. I have found that I roll from side to side at night and each roll draws in fresh, cold air that my body has to warm up. Less cold air is drawn in with a snug fitting bag. The Phantom also has a MUCH better draft collar around the shoulders so that also helps regarding drawing in cold air when rolling around.

Billy

I am a big skeptic of any MH down garments or bags. I once bought a MH "Phantom 32" bag, took it home and was so disappointed with the lack of loft that I returned it to REI unused.

I did so because I remembered seeing a Western Mountaineering Megalite bag with great loft. So I bought the WM Megalite and have loved it. It's kept me warm at 26 F. Now that I've had it overfilled by WM I'd day it's easily good to 20 F. if not lower.

No experience with the Marmot but I do have a Mountain Hardwear Phantom 0 that I have used comfortably down to 4*f (and have no reason to think it wouldn't be good to 0*). I used it with mid weight cap too and bottom, no cushin socks, and a Exped Downmat 7. I was in a Gossamer Gear SpinnShelter.

I got a Marmot Plasma (+15, 900FP, Pertex quantum shell) a couple of years ago.

I'm 5'9" and about 170lb but I got the long/wide so that I could easily wear down parka and pants to sleep and extend the rating down to 0F. I have used it quite a few times down to the low single digits and 0F, one time down to -5F, and it has worked like a charm. 3 nights ago I tried not wearing the down pants and was still warm down to +2F, although I was testing a new sleep pad arrangement and got a bit cold a couple of times when I slid off it… but that's another sob story.

Sleep pad is of course critical, and I find the Exped Synmat 7UL with a GG 1/8" or 1/4" CCF pad on top to work quite well. I'm just researching a possibly lighter alternative that works as well.

typo!

Billy Ray thanks for the clarification I had meant the MH bag has a warmer EN rating than the Marmot but i can see how that wasn't clear in what I wrote.

Also it seems like there is some variance in how much fill the Marmot has depending on where you look. According to the Marmot website the fill is 30.9 oz of 850.

I am a big skeptic of any MH down garments or bags. I once bought a MH "Phantom 32" bag, took it home and was so disappointed with the lack of loft that I returned it to REI unused."

I laid out the current versions of Marmot Plasma 0, the Marmot Lithium 0, and MH Phantom 0 on my living room floor back in November. The MH Plasma was clearly superior in loft to either of the Marmot bags… about an inch more! And looked to be made better too… though they all have a few pluses and minuses regarding design/construction. I have been a big fan of Marmot bags over the past years, but I would have bought the MH bag hands down over the Marmot bags. Things do change, Eric, perhaps MH made some improvements since you looked last.

billy

Thank you all for the comments.

I forgot to mention that I can get good deals through marmot and mountain hardware. I can also get deals on western mountaineering but they are less significant, otherwise I would be all over a wm bag.

I actually own a phantom 15 bag. Is the cut of the phantom 0 different from the 15? If it's the same, then I think it will be a bit too small for my uses.

I don't expect or want either of these bags to keep me warm at 0 degrees with minimal clothing. I sleep really cold. I plan on using the phantom 15 for around freezing or sub freezing temperatures and a 0 degree bag for the high teens or less. Which explains my desire for some extra clothes room if I do decide to camp at that temp.

I'm trying to accumulate a solid line up of sleeping bags to last me decades while I still have access to these deals. So I will have bags with 10 oz fill, 20 oz fill, 30 oz fill.

Justin that's exactly the temps I was looking to use the MH PHantom 0… teens. I am also a cold sleeper and figured the Phantom AND down pants and jacket inside is what I would need for, say 10 or 15F. My view is that cold sleepers benefit from a snug fit. A bag with too much room will not get you comfortable to the EN rating even if you are not a cold sleeper… too much air to heat. But it really comes down to: are you comfortable with a snug fit or not… or can you learn to be comfortable with a snug fit? A roomy fit means more weight to carry… both because more material/down = more weight and because that roomy bag will be colder so you will have to buy a bag with a lower EN (= more down = more weight) to get to the same comfort temp range… even if you wear down pants and jacket inside.

It really comes down to things you can't expect other people to tell you: How snug is too snug?.. And how warm is warm? But snug and warm are subjective terms and pretty hard to covey in words.

As for picking sleeping bags, I figure the best way is to do your research (which you are doing), winnow the list down to two or three bags. Then order them from a source that will take them back and try them on your floor… or your back deck. then return the ones you don't want to keep.

Specs are unreliable. I have had sleeping bags actually measure quite different than specs (one of the best from Feathered Friends)… and tags on the bag read quite different down fill weight than specs… and actual weight quite different than specs.

Billy