Skurka and Sierra Designs team up for gear

"What a nasty, petty place this is getting to be."

Getting to be?

"whadda sayen?"

In other news, reading comprehension in America has reached an all time low…

:)

Well I'm interested to see how this mid works out. Michael mentioned in the other thread that this is still under development so it's unlikely that this picture represents what will go into production. I'd like to see a two pole mid where the poles are offset in a way that they are on the outside of the two occupants but is still a storm worthy design. Under a lb would be great too.

We'll see.

I think a two pole mid that can fit two full length pads in between the two poles would be great. I love my Shangri la 2 but my wife and I can't use it with our two person quilt. Of course the weight would have to be right too.

I looked at the Betalite and SL2 but ended up gong with a Megalite instead. My wife doesn't backpack so not looking to share a quilt but it's be nice to have a two pole design that doesn't push you out to the walls/condensation. I can't tell from the pic but I was wondering if they are incorporating some sort of asymmetrical design where the two occupants sleep in opposite directions.

"What a nasty, petty place this is getting to be."

"Getting to be?"

Yes. And this might be funny to some, but this forum has long been the most civil and respectful of any forum that I've frequented. Of course there's been some disagreements and the occasional flame war. But far less than I've seen elsewhere. The vast majority of people posting here seem to be really good people. If I was to meet someone on the trail that says they're on BPL, I'd be happy to share the trail or camp with them with BPL as a single point of reference. And the people I have met here first and then in person have been first class. Can we maybe just share this space with the respect for others that we all want for ourselves?

The bad thing is those ones that are not so good seem to have to have their hands in every cookie jar they can get their hands into, even if it doesn't have anything to do with anything of interest to them.

It still just takes so much away from any post that has it.

IMO, The TarpTent StratoSpire2 is the current gold standard for dual pole 2 person mids. That shelter has a number of innovations that improve usability for two people (pitch lock corners, angled sleeping area). If I was SD I would look at this design and consider how it can be improved. There are a definitely a few aspects that can be improved.

My comment actually was fairly serious, with only a little mirth intended. I admit that i have not been here very long. (Maybe a couple of years.) and I have always noted a nasty undertone and while the vast majority of folks do appear to be respectful it seems that most any thread can degenerate quickly. Personal attacks seem to be pretty frequent and there is a tone of superiority in many discussions that I personally find very offensive. Perhaps it was not always so, but it certainly is now. Even more disturbing is the fact that those who point this out are often vilified or insulted instead of listened to.

"Shouldn't you be over in Chaff blowing your brains out?"

This type of comment, from earlier in the thread, needs to be deleted by a moderator if this is going to stay a reasonably friendly place to post.

"IMO, The TarpTent StratoSpire2 is the current gold standard for dual pole 2 person mids."

Too many shelters. Too little cash.

Eric Blumensaadt recommended this shelter to me when I was new to BPL. I consider purchasing this tent from time to time for family backpacking trips as it checks a lot of boxes for me.

At any rate, good luck to SD and Andrew on this new venture together. I'm sure this will be good for all parties involved, especially the customers.

With all of this controversy, I thought Andrew Skurka was running for President or something.

It's great that he's working with SD, but the political disappointment is overshadowing. :-(

:-)

Wait, Skurka is running for President?!

That's great news Andy… I'd vote for him! My only concern is the media flood that'll accompany his announcement will crowd the trails, but that's a small price to pay for the possibility of getting sound leadership in Washington.

You have my vote Andrew! Keep up the good work!! :)

"Many of you blew this out of proportion for Craig. He simply asked why the gear lists USED ON SPECIFIC TRIPS were changed with available gear. Not sure if the question was answered or not but nobody questioned if Skurka was an "all right dude" as explained by Ian.

Typical BPL."

Actually Craig posted on a thread about Skurka teaming up with Sierra Designs, derailed the thread, and called a man's integrity into question by saying:

"….gear lists [have] been substantially revised to include gear from his current sponsors (like SD) that didn't actually go on the trips….

I understand a guy's gotta make a buck, but altering the lists in this way seems a little weird."

That is pretty bold considering Skurka's reputation. Then when another poster explained the rationale on why he had updated some gear lists, YOU re-raised with further allegations and once again impugned a man's integrity based on false assumptions. (It is pretty obvious Skurka isn't claiming this is the gear he used if you actually visit his site. It is a generic High Sierra List).

So if you and Craig want to cast stones, perhaps you shouldn't be surprised when people react negatively.

Andrew Skurka responded on his blog:

http://andrewskurka.com/2015/is-it-wrong-to-profit-from-your-passion-not-at-all/

I personally don't foresee myself being very interested in anything that comes out of Sierra Designs, but I could see some of their new stuff appealing to my more "traditional" backpacking friends as it could help them go lighter. So if Skurka's partnership with them results in lighter/better gear for the masses, then that's great.

People have been backpacking long before Andrew Skurka showed up at Springer Mountain in 2002 with a 50lb backpack and "revolutionized" the "sport".

Sure, he's done some great routes and has a knack for self-promotion (and selfies), but he has done nothing that should warrant a bunch of grown men getting their Exofficios in a wad.

90% of what he teaches I, and many others, learned in the cub scouts, in between wooden car derby races and trying to earn a Bobcat badge. Yet somehow everything he says gets accepted as outdoor scripture. "Watch Andrew tie a truckers hitch in his guy line!" "See Skurka use a map and compass!" "Observe as he copes with mosquitos!" Thank you oh great one for bestowing thine knowledge upon us!

I tease of course, and he shouldn't be shunned for this as he is simply passing on knowledge and skills that have been around forever. But when his words and actions are treated like gospel, then we are the ones to blame. What has HE done that any of YOU can't do?

Personally, I find his methods boring, overplanned, and lacking in true adventure, a word which is thrown around rather loosely these days. He doesn't seem to be having fun and seems more focused on the accomplishment (physical) than the experience (spiritual), but I guess when you're trying to turn a profit from your trips that's the name of the game.

So he got a job trying to pull an outdoor company back to their feet. Some consider turning a passion into a profession a terrible idea. Will that affect you as you watch the sun rising from behind a craggy spire?

I didn't do scouts. I didn't have anyone to teach me any of these things. I'd still be a lurking pack-sniffer if not for his guided trips.

He's extremely good at analysis/executive thinking. He is wonderfully methodical. He helped me figure out how the heck to plan a trip. He can explain stuff really well.

SD is smart to seek his input.

Note that his trips are not priced as high as they could be given the demand.

"Personally, I find his methods boring, overplanned, and lacking in and true adventure, a word which is thrown around rather loosely these days. He doesn't seem to be having fun and seems more focused on the accomplishment (physical) than the experience (spiritual), but I guess when you're trying to turn a profit from your trips that's the name of the game."

Nicely said David, and glad to see there's still a few people here who feel that way. You sound like the kind of guy that would be nice to meet on the trail one day. I've never seen a hint to contradict this observation you make.

I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but you put this so well it was hard to resist.

I congratulate Skurka on finding a place to make some money, we all have to do it, and finding new ways to copy the Tarptent Notch, which is what I see in that previous page pic of the sd prototype, well, that's fine. Does this mean the notch is a 4 season tent? It must, though its strut system (patented) should make it stronger in general.

Katherine, if you want to find some amazing experiences, take what you may or may not have learned in your 'class', aka, 'guided trip', and then go out and let something happen that was not planned. Nothing wrong with learning stuff, though I find learning by necessity a way better method than learning by following along someone else.

Learning how to just go and not stress the details is when the best things happen. All the most amazing things I've ever seen or experienced traveling were the result of random events piling one on the other, and an almost complete lack of planning, beyond the planning required to fill a backpack with food and pick a destination. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but the most stunningly beautiful moments I've ever experienced were always the result of having no plans and having the freedom to let events unfold because of that fact. If I'd been Skurka, I'd have been falling behind schedule, and would have to have left before the world around me had time to show me what it had to show (and it takes time). So I'm glad he's him and I'm me, works out better that way.

Harold– Yeah, unlimited time for trips would be delightful! As I have small children and a concerned husband to get home to, having a Plan helps.

In my earlier era of backpacking (pre-motherhood, conventional equipment) half my trips were amazing, half were "learning experiences." It's nice to have cut back on the later in my post-Skurka trips.

"What has HE done that any of YOU can't do?"

That's easy! (1) His Alaska-Yukon trip. I'm not tough enough. I think most people here probably don't have the skills needed to safely get through at trip like that. (2) 18:17 at the Leadville 100.

Note: I am will say up front that I am biased when I wrote this article as I do some assistant guiding on occasion with the very person in question.

I also wrote this not long after I turned 40. An age when a person tends to look over their life and think about it… I've been lucky as I had leisure time to pursue my passions earlier in my life as opposed to raising a family. It could have been different.

http://www.pmags.com/why-guided-trips

TL;DR – Learning by doing worked well for me. It is not for every person and every situation. To think one is way better than the other is hubris.

Katherine, I'm with you. With one week a year for a trip I need a plan.

Peter, I am also in the group who can't do what he does.

I don't look to him or his site to tell me how to do things anymore than I did Ray Jardine, never, but I can still respect the guy.

David, concerning Andrew Skurka… it's called marketing.

Marketing does not generally add much to the product or the service. But it makes the customer perceive higher value in the product or the service. Sometimes it is more of an educational effect. Sometimes it is just marketing.

If he wants to market his expertise that way, I say "more power to him." Either it will work for him, or else it won't. Ten years from now he may be a stock trader on Wall Street.

–B.G.–

So now Skurka's trips don't count as adventure, aren't any fun, he does them purely for profit, and he hasn't done anything any of us couldn't do anyway? This thread is like a bad episode of the Twilight Zone.

>> "What a nasty, petty place this is getting to be."

> "Yup – I'm outta here."

Thank you!