Topic

Bivy versus bathtub floor, and what tarp for high Sierra?

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
PostedFeb 14, 2015 at 10:54 am

In buggy summer conditions, I'll always take a single-walled tent and no amount of persuasion can convince me that a few extra ounces isn't worth it.

However, I'm gearing up for an August solo modified-JMT trip. I'll be going out of Yosemite over Isberg pass, then a bit of xc from Hemlock Crossing > Twin Island Lakes > Lake Catherine > Thousand Island Lakes. Once on JMT I'll be taking side trips and camping often in higher spots (not the highest peaks but possibly exposed ridges) for twilight/night photography. I have experience in high Sierra but not camping in exposed places (it always seemed more logical to seek out lower/sheltered locations).

In an earlier life in the 90s I used to cowboy camp a lot in the Sierra. And by that I mean nothing but sleeping bag (synthetic) and groundsheet. If weather looked scary in the evening, I would find good shelter and set up my tarp, which was a blue thing purchased from from AutoMart for all I know. I have no experience yet with a proper UL tarp/bivy or bathtub floor, nor cowboy camping with a down sleeping bag.

As of the last 15 minutes, I'm leaning toward ZPacks Hexamid Solo Tarp (5.8 oz. w/ "beak" and lines) plus bathtub groundsheet (3.5 oz. including elastic attachment bands). I know from reading around here that this might be considered on the *minimal* side for weather protection. I'm trying to calibrate that against my needs for middle August and some (but not extreme) exposure. Again, I'm may be up high but I don't particularly like being exposed and I'm going to look for the best protection provided by local terrain or go lower if weather is obviously brewing.

How much safety margin does a bivy provide over a (pretty good) bathtub floor for rough weather? How much better/worse is a bivy for managing condensation on a calm but cold high Sierra night? From cowboy camping without a bivy, I'm used to having dew condensation on the surface of my sleeping bag that never seemed to soak through and quickly dried out in the morning (that's wearing all my cloths while using my old 35F synthetic; I now own a 20F ZPacks down bag plus down hood). Some bivy users describe having damp feet often (eg, sectionhiker) although in very different conditions than where I will be. I am persuadable though. I'll carry the extra ~3 oz. and pay the extra ~$hundred plus if I think a bivy provides enough extra benefit. Does it?

I've also read but not researched much about alternative tarps that may be more weather worthy. MLD Patrol for example. I believe it is always assumed that this is paired with a bivy. It's a tiny bit heavier and less roomy (but I'm 5'8" and don't need much room). So the question: Is the Hexamid Solo w/ beak up to the task for somewhat (but not extreme) exposed high Sierra camping? Or should weather safety motivate me to look at alternatives?

Ian BPL Member
PostedFeb 14, 2015 at 11:05 am

I have the Zpacks twin tent so not a perfect comparison. I've slept through some downpours and think it's fine with just a groundsheet. The only exception I've encountered was due to user error and laziness on my part.

PostedFeb 14, 2015 at 11:19 am

Bivys do a better job at protection no matter how you slice it. Not to say a good bathtub floor won't meet your needs, its just that all things being equal a bivy with a good bath tub floor will offer more protection for your bag and you than just a bathtub floor.

My biggest issue is I never found a bivy that didn't have a problem with condensation. I know it is just part of it, I just really don't like it because I live in a condensation heavy region. My solution was a bathtub floor bug bivy. Has a bathtub floor for those immediate needs, but instead of water resistant fabric for the upper it goes directly to bug netting. I found this netting still provides an amount of splash protection while ventilating much better. The downside being less splash protection and less wind resistance (still some of both however). For me personally condensation is the greater of those evils so this is the best solution I've found and overall I'm happy with it. YMMV but I wanted to put it on your radar as an option.

PostedFeb 14, 2015 at 3:30 pm

For most Sierra use I'd skip the bivy and get a Hexamid with netting and floor. But if you really want to camp in some exposed spots for the views (and I'm all for that) a bivy may be a good idea in this sense: sometimes those exposed spots are tiny and convoluted and you can't set up a tarp for shelter from the wind. so the extra wind protection you get from a bivy, and having the ability to stuff shoes and whatnot inside the bivy so they don't blow away during the night, could be a good thing. But I'd take the bivy in addition and not in place of, simply because I want a refuge from the bugs when I'm not on a nice breezy ridge, and a bivy is not that for me regardless of its having netting. Although I will point out that if you had a down bag with an extra 4 ounces of down instead of a 5 ounce bivy I'll bet that would be warmer, even in the windoy spots. Quilt maybe not so much.

PostedFeb 14, 2015 at 5:31 pm

Current snowfall trend may change of course (and hopefully will), but if not then Sierra in August will be quite dried out. I've camped a lot in August/September without seeing mosquitoes above 9500 feet, or at least none that stay out after dark, and that's without going high up on a ridge. (I'm already eyeing ZPacks Duplex for trips to black fly land north of where I presently live. I just don't think that is needed for late season high Sierra.)

I'm somewhat puzzled by the tarp/bathtub/bivy combo. The weight pretty much matches a single-walled tent looking at various cuben options (for example, within 0.5 oz comparing ZPacks gear). For comfort and condensation management, a single-walled tent is surely superior. I've never really had a condensation *problem* in a tent (I certainly have had condensation, but never a problem keeping it away from me). I suppose the tarp/bathtub/bivy combo can be (on an equal weight comparison) more bomber against wind and rain? But even on that criteria it seems like you can step up just a few ounces for a more bomber tent. Or for that matter, just a bigger/better tarp. I'm not trying to push anyone's buttons here. Just trying to understand something for which I have no experience.

I don't see myself getting into a situation where I'm sleeping in bivy in a place where I can't erect a tarp. I've been stormed on in Sierra but it never sneaks up that fast.

Edit: OK, sounding very anti-bivy here. No. Just anti-bivy/bathtub/tarp. I've always liked the *idea* of a bivy as something minimalist and protective on its own. But that appeal really drops off when I have to protect the bivy itself.

Edit 2: Ah! Just saw post below. Thanks! That clarifies a lot for me.

PostedFeb 14, 2015 at 5:49 pm

Sorry if I was unclear but I did not mean a tarp + a bathtub floor+ a bivy. Rather a tarp plus a bug bivy that has a bathtub floor, as in the floor material of the bivy bathtubs up around you a bit.

My bivy is silnylon (room to get lighter) and 7.2 oz in its stuff sack with guy line for the head net attached. Combine that with hexamid solo tarp and you are at 11.8 oz with all guyline and stuff sacks (no stakes).

Katherine, I use a borah bug bivy in a custom configuration. The caveat here is that it doesn't bathtub around you much unless you clip the head net guy line to the tarp. Hasn't been a problem for me as I almost always hang it to give me some space and to keep the netting away from my face, but I'm in the market for a bug bivy with a better bathtub, I just haven't found it yet. I'll also say I've used the bivy un hung in some pretty good rain and the floor did its job well. But if water was streaming through the sleeping area it would need to be hung to protect you.

Chad B BPL Member
PostedFeb 14, 2015 at 6:15 pm

The TiGoat Bug Bivy has a pretty good bathtub. It does have a tendency to flatten out a bit with a lighter weight bag/quilt or if you don't tie it off, but still pretty good.

tigoat bug bivy

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
Loading...