He was part of the Jagged Globe camp which was effected by the avalanche severely. Strangely, he had been at Everest last year at Camp 1 above the Khumbu Icefall when that avalanche happened. Fredinburg was quoted at the time saying, “There was this massive shudder and I thought I was going to die. It was terrifying. I grabbed my helmet and my ice axe and rushed out of the tent and threw my ice axe into the ground. Basically, we were the last people through the icefall before it happened.”
Many doctors are on the scene treating the victims. One of these, Dr. Nima Namgyal has been posting updates with photos via Facebook. “Many camps have been destroyed by the shake and wind from the avalanche,” and “All the doctors here are doing our best to treat and save lives.” Our thoughts and prayers are for peace for anyone suffering loss from this terrible natural disaster.
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And we don't like people defining our experience for us on websites.
And most of us don't like music in the woods, yet you would happily impose your annoying habit on others even though there is a simple and viable option for keeping it to yourself.
Wow. Do you not see the arrogance and selfishness in this statement?
Your parents must be very proud of you. Exemplary spawn of the "ME Generation".
Okay, given the music lovers need music, hate headphones, and don't care to see animals, wouldn't you prefer robust speakers that makes the music sound better than a phone in a tin can ?
Coming from you that just sounds rude Ken. There are rude folks on the trail, especially near the cities. Don't let it ruin yoir experiance. Your apoligy is accepted.
I think you are being purposely obtuse just to be argumentative. I have nothing to apologize for here.
"Do we draw the line at music played through technology or are we talking about anything any human being is doing that is within the realm of our hearing?"
The issues are consideration of other people, and what we expect from a wilderness. Some of it is contextual; I know I have to put up with generators, televisions, boom-boxes and singalongs in larger campgrounds. Next on the scale are easily reached trailheads where there might be loud groups fueled by a lot of alcohol. But out in the wilderness, I think I have a right to silence.
The portable speakers present a new and difficult challenge. If a musical instrument or singing is present, it is usually very time-limited and not so loud. But I don't think the "not so loud" standard is as valid when applied to personal speakers. In the wilderness, I don't want to hear "Hotel California", at any volume. The speakers could serve as a too-easy enabling device for people who are the least sensitive to the nuances of context, or other people.
I was recently with a Sierra Club group where the campfire festivities evolved into a quasi-dance affair driven by some small speakers. It was a social activity, and we were reasonably certain that no other parties were present in the empty campground. But I can easily imagine situations where we could have been mistaken about the presence of others. It may be better to just leave the speakers at home.
I always take small radio with speaker. Usually listen to NPR. I think that rarely does anyone else hear it.
Once camping at campground, wife asked the people to turn down their music. They turned it up. Ha, ha, ha,… Young adult males and beer. If I get angry about it, it's my own fault. Now it's a funny story to remember. "Type 2 fun".
There are so many things in the world you can get yourself worked up about. I choose to appreciate all the experiences I can have and how many people can't have them because they're incapacitated or dead. You're squandering your life.
Call me Polyana
I did hear a guy coming down the trail once, screaming at the top of his lungs. He was wearing headphones, singing along, and could not hear himself. Better to get a chuckle and move on. Once you get a mile or so down the trail, it all goes away. If I hear an occasional Elvis tune, I'll grimace a little and realize that somebody else is enjoying the same freedoms that I am. I may not like it, it's only temperary.
Bob, I think you're taking this a bit seriously. Believe me, we'd be much more likely to share a cup of merlot in the wilderness together than have any sort of conflict. I don't typically sling a boom box around my neck and wander around jamming sludge metal. If you were to approach me and ask me to turn it off I would.
This whole thing is a bit of a straw man argument as I have never dealt with music conflicts in the wilderness directly. As in EVER. At hammered campgrounds? Sure. I have, however, had many tense encounters with noisy and destructive campers, people high on acid, snooty and unhelpful REI types, over-extended and inexperienced "youth group" guide services and people ripping through sensitive areas on ATVs. These are real issues, not some made-up musical conflict.
"…unless there is a problem I don't have a problem."
Words of wisdom Kat.
Listening to my son practice on his drums as a read this. Perfect timing.
With the introduction of ad sense to BPL, I suspect flame wars are now very welcome. People keep clicking and posting, but if you listen carefully, all this wailing and gnashing of teeth translates to ka ching!
No nickelback and don't wake me up, and I won't throw your shoes up a tree when you're sleeping in the next morning.
I've been bringing an iPod and earbuds on trips for quite some time. I don't think the people I hike with even know that.
KUMBAYA MY LORD KUMBAYA !!!
ill give intrawebz cred to the first BPLer who tells those boy and girl scouts to shut up at night …
because singing kids outdoors should be no different than these blasting ipod speakers if were gonna be honest about it
;)
Been there. Get off my lawn!
Kidding. Never have run into scouts more than 2 miles from a trailhead.
"…unless there is a problem I don't have a problem."
Agreed. I've not experienced this issue even on the young generation super highway that is the AT. I'm sure it's out there. The noise pollution I do have to put up with? People that snore staying in shelters. 8hrs of that is far worse than 5 mins of Metallica.
Ryan
It's not new. We had problems with newbies and their boom-boxes 40 years ago.
One group at a campsite ignored polite requests to turn it down a bit, so I walked over, flipped the battery compartment open, removed one D-cell (no lithiums then) and walked off – before they could react. They were gob-smacked. Others made it clear that they supported my actions. There was no come-back. End of problem.
Can't do that today very easily with the tiny boxes, but the thin leads to the speakers look susceptible to the scissors on a SAK.
Cheers
PS: strictly personal stories this time.
NM
"Having my cake, and eating yours too."
Changing the subject completely, I was glad the author caught the closure of the section of the Superior Hiking Trail…very useful information. Very much not glad about the closure itself. From the link it sounds like the landowner did what he could (only presents his side of the story), but it must be heartbreaking for the trail association to hear that someone they did have a partnership with to construct an absolutely brilliant stretch of trail has decided that the users have become a nuisance.
I'm fortunate to have hiked that stretch last summer. What a loss.
Not at all dissimilar when you ponder the root cause — obnoxious behavior on the part of some backpackers.
Backpackers, thru hikers, weekend partiers, too many campers not using trowels. I'd like to know the true cause for the trail closures. Most of us fit into the catagory of nature lover and thats why we hike. We're health nuts and respect a healthful enviroment. We are eager to learn envirimentaly sound methods of camping. I tend to believe most of the blame lays with the weekend folks, not with those backpacking. The lazy people. The slobs.
How close is this section of trail to the trailhead?
This section is only about 6 miles, with a campsite (nothing too special) right in the middle. The other nearby sites are in or very close to two state parks. I found trash in this campsite too, while on a break. There is a jeep road that passes nearby, so I wonder if anyone has just cut straight up that (or if it would be possible…it might just be the landowner's driveway).
According to the linked article, the landowner mainly had problems with hikers harassing their family on the family's property because they weren't following the hikers' standards of wilderness behavior. Examples listed include anti-ATV and anti-hunting folks berating the landowner.
When I walked through I could definitely see the "private property: please stay on trail" signs clearly. The property owner can do what they want (mostly) on their own land, which now is off limits to the public. If I had seen an ATV off the trail somewhere here I would have just assumed it was their land…that's what a lot of people do in MN when they have a patch of woods.
I do understand the connection to the speakers; this appears to be another level of inappropriate behavior entirely. The SHT is not in the middle of some gigantic expanse of wilderness. Its charm comes from how secluded it feels just steps from the trailhead, and that just isn't possible without cooperating with local landowners.
"Its charm comes from how secluded it feels just steps from the trailhead, and that just isn't possible without cooperating with local landowners."
Or without the respect of those traveling across private lands. How Do you reach and encourage that 0.01% or 0.001% to do the right thing?
All I can say is your rights end at my ears. If I wanted to listen to someone else's loud music, I'd stay home. When I go into nature, I go to get away from city noise. Ed Abbey said sonething about how we don't drive our cars into the Cistine Chapel; the wilderness deserves the same respect.
We have no rights, we hsve no responsibility other than those we place on ourselves. We can't control other people.
Reminds me of Gabby Johnson in Blazing Saddles.
Classic line after Gabby… “Now who can argue with that?”
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