Midlayer Technology: Patagonia Capilene 4 v. Mountain Hardwear Desna Hoody

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When things get colder and a baselayer plus shell will no longer do, the backpacker will need a midlayer. Insulation is the primary motive here, but preempting other ways of getting cold is just as important. First among these is moisture management, as it's easy to sweat a bit no matter how cold it is, especially while breaking trail uphill in fresh powder. A midlayer that works in concert with baselayer to move moisture is desirable. There can be too much of a good thing here, and particularly expedient wicking can cause flash off evaporative cooling, not good after cresting that hill into a strong wind. Wind resistance in colder temperatures is also a salient factor, and given the mostly direct and inverse correlation between wind proofing and breathability, having just enough but not too much wind resistance can assist in both of the aforementioned goals. Picking a midlayer well suited to certain conditions can make life much better in already hostile environments.

To this end, I will here consider two standout midlayers with similar features but different fabrics: the Capilene 4 Hoody by Patagonia and the Desna Hoody by Mountain Hardwear. This article will review each individually, but focus more on the strengths and weaknesses of the different fabrics. It is hoped that this can then be generalized by readers to other garments of comparable fabrics.

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Introduction
Assessment
Summary

# WORDS: 1910
# PHOTOS: 6

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Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)

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Jan 8, 2013 at 4:38 pm #1297803

Stephanie Jordan
Spectator

@maia
Locale: Rocky Mountains

Companion forum thread to:

Midlayer Technology: Patagonia Capilene 4 v. Mountain Hardwear Desna Hoody

Jan 17, 2013 at 10:12 am #1944681

John Coyle
Member

@bigsac
Locale: NorCal

Just wanted to clear up some confusion about Capiline 4 fabric. Not all Capilene 4 is grid fabric. For example, I have a Capilene 4 Expedition Weight Zip neck garment. It is NOT grid fabric, but rather what Patagonia calls 5.9oz Polartec Power Dry fabric. If you want the grid fabric, you must be sure you are getting what Patagonia calls 3.7oz Polartec Power Dry High Efficiency fabric. Don't assume that all Capilene 4 is grid fabric.

Jan 17, 2013 at 10:35 am #1944688

Diplomatic Mike
Member

@mikefaedundee
Locale: Under a bush in Scotland

The Rab Baseline Hoody uses the same stuff.
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-news/just-in—rab-baseline-hoodie/8945.html

Jan 17, 2013 at 10:53 am #1944690

Brendan Swihart
BPL Member

@brendans
Locale: Fruita CO

The baseline looks different –more like the R1 powerdry (doesn't have the same voids in the grid). The Rab AL does look like the same PD High Efficiency as the Cap 4.

Jan 17, 2013 at 11:16 am #1944698

David Chenault
BPL Member

@davec
Locale: Queen City, MT

The evolution of Patagonias "expedition weight" long underwear is worth elaborating.

For a long time it was (essentially) 100 weight fleece.
In the early 00's it became R 1/2.
Then R 1/2 was renamed Capilene 4.
A few years ago Capilene 4 transitioned to Powerstretch fabric.
This past fall the HE fabric reviewed here was introduced.

It is indeed possible to find last years stuff NOS on sale. Worth asking to avoid confusion.

Jan 17, 2013 at 12:15 pm #1944721

Diplomatic Mike
Member

@mikefaedundee
Locale: Under a bush in Scotland

Read the link.

Jan 17, 2013 at 2:44 pm #1944779

Rick M
BPL Member

@yamaguy

del

Jan 17, 2013 at 2:57 pm #1944784

Diplomatic Mike
Member

@mikefaedundee
Locale: Under a bush in Scotland

The Rab site is vague, read the review i posted and it's the same stuff?

Jan 17, 2013 at 3:08 pm #1944788

Brendan Swihart
BPL Member

@brendans
Locale: Fruita CO

From Mike's link:
"Like the AL, it's a versatile top that you either wear as a cold conditions, next-to-skin, heavy duty base layer or as a light, high-wicking mid-layer. Where it's different is in using a slightly heavier, slightly warmer version of the PowerDry fabric…"

Looking at some more pictures, the AL also looks like it has smaller voids in the grid than the Cap 4 (which explains the 6.3 oz for Cap 4 zip neck vs 9 oz for the AL). So Baseline> AL > Cap 4 as far as fabric weights. Like most Polartec products, the HE obviously has more than one variation.

Feb 8, 2013 at 3:01 am #1952114

PhilipB
BPL Member

@pxb

Just looked on Patagonia.com and there's no listing for the men's Cap 4 hoody reviewed here. The women's is being sold off at a bargain $47. The Piton Hybrid is not the High Efficency fabric so it seems Patagonia are clearing the decks a bit, perhaps to introduce a new line or perhaps not.

Feb 8, 2013 at 5:32 am #1952135

Brad Rogers
BPL Member

@mocs123
Locale: Southeast Tennessee

Many items at Patagonia are seasonal and they just started their winter clearance (and the hoody sold out quick). I am sure the hoody will make a return next fall.

Mar 23, 2013 at 3:33 pm #1968864

Anthony Weston
BPL Member

@anthonyweston
Locale: Southern CA

My R1 pants weigh 8.4, the capilene 4 weigh 5.4.
But when I hold the cap 4 up to the light there is a lot less material.
So I'm not sure I like this improvement. I put the R1 on one arm and the Cap 4 on the other arm and the wind just whistles thru the cap 4

capliene 4 held up to a light

old R1 held up to a light

The melanzana tights seem to be closer to the old r1 but weighs 5.6 oz.

Mar 23, 2013 at 4:00 pm #1968872

Mike M
BPL Member

@mtwarden
Locale: Montana

the R1 is a much warmer material- no doubt about that, the cap 4 shines when you're willing to give up some warmth for breathability- the cap 4 is much better when your active

wore mine running this morning as a base layer under a windshirt, temp 19F w/ 15-20mph winds and I was just right- w/ the R1 I would have been overly warm and getting wet

despite looking similar, they are very different imo

Mar 23, 2013 at 4:18 pm #1968873

Dale Wambaugh
BPL Member

@dwambaugh
Locale: Pacific Northwest

Cap 4 reminds me of fishnet— providing pockets of warm air and part of a system rather than a stand-alone garment. Layering systems take a little mind-bending. I think we get stuck on outdated and urban clothing conventions.

Mar 23, 2013 at 4:27 pm #1968874

Anonymous
Inactive

"wore mine running this morning as a base layer under a windshirt, temp 19F w/ 15-20mph winds and I was just right- w/ the R1 I would have been overly warm and getting wet"

I've been using the Cap 4 Hoody a lot this winter and have found it to be far more versatile than the R1 Hoody. I've found it to be comfortable in a range from ~45 degrees down to ~30 with winds up to ~15 mph when I'm on the move and working hard; it's tolerable down to the mid 20's with lighter winds and up to ~50 degrees on the high end, especially if there's a decent breeze. In higher winds or lower temps, I go straight to a Rab Boreas windshirt, beginning in the mid to high 30's. Above 50 degrees, it is time to go to a lighter baselayer. The R1 is good on the low end of this range, but does not move moisture nearly as well, and is unusable above ~45 degrees when on the move. All this is IME. YMMV. All in all, the most versatile base layer I've ever used.

Mar 23, 2013 at 4:53 pm #1968879

Anthony Weston
BPL Member

@anthonyweston
Locale: Southern CA

Interesting, I'm open to it but I can't use a base layer when hiking I sweat too much and these days I don't run at all, too many injuries. I see other people on the trail in baselayers and jackets and I'm peeled down to a shirt and still sweating.
I carry my baselayer to use at camp when I'm standing still or in my quilt.
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