Black Packing Light
  • Sections
  • Today’s Features
  • Subscribe
  • Sign In
  • Subscribe
  • Home
  • Email Newsletter
  • Membership Info
  • Articles
    • Recent Features
    • Gear Reviews
    • State of the Market Reports
    • Gear Guides
    • Gear Lists
    • Skills & Techniques
    • MYOG
    • Science, Technology & Testing
    • Stories
    • Calendar
  • Education
    • Podcast
    • Webinars
    • Masterclasses
    • Online Courses
    • Guided Treks
    • Education Portal
  • Forums
    • Forum Index
    • Recent Forum Posts
    • Gear Forums
    • Gear Swap (Buy/Sell)
  • Gear Recommendations
  • Gear Deals

Backpacking Light

Pack less. Be more.

You are here: Home / Skills & Techniques / Gear Lists / Doing Denali Light: Post-Trip Report and Gearlist

Doing Denali Light: Post-Trip Report and Gearlist

by BPL Moderator Team on August 29, 2007 Gear Lists

Introduction

For most people climbing Denali (aka Mt. McKinley) is no easy task. A vertical rise of 18,000 feet makes it bigger than Everest. It is no wonder that Denali means “the high one” in the Athabascan language. With backbreaking loads of 100 pounds (45 kilograms) or more the haul to the summit is grueling for even the fittest climber, but as Matt and I proved on this trip, it’s not so miserable with a lighter load. In a mere 3 hours Matt and I trucked into the first camp at the base of the ski hill at 7800 feet (2377 meters) with half the load of a typical climber and plenty of energy to spare. We could not go any further until our bodies acclimated. We set up camp and tried to “chill” in the heat of the day when afternoon temperatures can swelter to 100 °F (38 °C on the lower glacier. Perhaps our two most unorthodox items – at least for this type of climbing – were our 20 ounce (567 gram) packs and 2.5 pound (1.1 kilogram) tent. For most climbers on Denali, these two items alone can weigh from 15 to 20 pounds (6.8 to 9.0 kilograms), while these two items weighed only 4 pounds (1.8 kilograms) for us. By taking techniques from ultralight backpacking and alpine climbing, we manage to put together a 30 pound (13.6 kilogram) kit (base weight plus non-worn technical gear) not including food and gas.

The Gear

To jump directly to the gear lists and weight summaries click here.

Our Golite Gust packs, at 20 ounces (567 grams) with no bells or whistles fulfilled our volume (5000 cubic inches, 81 liters) needs – they carried a lot of goose feathers. I rigged a sternum strap to help adjust the pack under load. We pushed the pack’s 30 pound carrying capacity limit, which helped us keep our loads honest. Early in the trip when the pack was maximized and we were pulling sleds the thin unpadded waist belt made our hips tender. We were thankful to be caching the sleds at the 11,000 foot (3352 meter) basin camp, especially after the hard second day around Kahiltna Pass with high winds.

The high winds persisted at the 11,000 foot (3352 meter) camp, putting our small tent to the test. The Stephenson Warmlite tent (2.5 lbs, 1.1 kilogram) was designed over 40 years ago and today is still one of the lightest high quality mountaineering tents on the market. The tent depends on its aerodynamics to withstand high winds with no guylines attached. As is expected in such cold conditions, condensation formed on the inner walls. The condensation accumulated primarily on the single-wall end sections rather than on the double wall section over the sleeping bag area. This minimized the dampness of our bags.

Another fairly unconventional item that we included in our shelter system was an 8 x 10 foot (2.4 x 3.0 meters), 14 ounce (397 grams) Integral Design Siltarp. Part of Integral Design’s “fast and light,” line this ultralight waterproof nylon tarp was great as a vestibule or awning. During high winds, we setup the Siltarp as a huge vestibule with snow walls digging down to make a cubbyhole great for cooking or just hanging out. Most of the time we did not so much encounter wind but intense sun instead. Using our poles and snow walls, we created a front porch (awning style) that allows us to stay out of the hot tent but remain protected from the blaring sun. The tarp was probably the most admired commodity on the mountain.

When it came to choosing technical gear, we had to ask ourselves, “what can we get away without?” and “what can’t we do without?” One thing we noticed was that many climbers carried excessive amount of technical gear: miles of cordalets, numerous screws and slings, and carabiners galore. The National Park Service provides fixed ropes and permanent pickets at all the technical locations leaving you to provide basic gear in case of a self-rescue situation. We reduced our technical equipment to two pickets, one ice screw, two Mammut Specter slings, two Petzel Tiblocs, and six CAMP Nano carabiners per person (Note:

The West Buttress does not have a high avalanche danger, so we decided we could “do without” an avalanche beacon. A probe, however, is useful for finding crevasses.

Choosing snowshoes instead of skis was a no-brainer for us. It is hard to pull a sled when you’re roped together on skis going downhill. Snowshoes are also lighter. Backpacking Light supplied us with Northern Lite snowshoes that worked great for travel on the lower glacier. We cached the snowshoes along with the sleds at the 11,000 foot (3352 meter) camp. Dependable footing is critical when one slip could be fatal so steel crampons were necessary. On the other hand, self-arresting on blue ice is challenging even with the best of ice axes so we felt safe with lightweight aluminum alloy CAMP USA XLA ice axes, which also assisted with the headwall climb above 14,000 feet (4267 meters).

Multi-purpose items and simplicity were the keys to our cooking system. All our meals were of the “just add hot water” variety, which allowed us to bring one four-liter cooking pot to melt snow for the two of us. Our MSR XGK stove provided the BTUs required to melt large quantities of dry snow in a short amount of time at high elevations. Some of our favorite parts of our kit were our homemade insulated yellow buckets. We purchased 32-ounce Nalgene containers that we insulated with blue foam and duct tape. The buckets were used for both hearty meals and hot drinks. We even used them to cook our Mountain House Pro-Pak meals with an extra half cup of rice. They were easy to clean too – just add water, cover, and shake.

Our sleeping setup was nothing fancy, but it was one place we did not want to skimp. After a bit of research, we chose REI 20-below Sub Kilo sleeping bags. The Sub-Kilo’s specs were comparable to bags costing twice as much. A basic blue foam pad cut to length served as both bottom insulation and as our “blue foam couch” under the front porch. Lastly, a ¾-length ultralight Therm-a-Rest provided a little more insulation under the torso.

When worst comes to worst you want to be warm. A good sleeping bag is one thing, but great layers are equally if not more important. It is crucial that when conditions become desperate you can throw on all your layers and keep moving until you can make camp. Matt and I tested our layering system on a 30-below ski tour in late February so we were confident that our clothing would see us through the Denali attempt. Key pieces included MontBell UL Down Inner Pants (7 ounces, 198 grams), Patagonia Specter Pullovers (6.5 ounces, 184 grams), Intuition Denali Liners (8.5 ounces, 241 grams), Patagonia Micro Puff Pullovers (12 ounces, 340 grams), and MontBell Ventisca down parkas (26.5 ounces, 751 grams). The Intuition Denali Liners are half the weight of standard double boot liners and thus dry quickly. This is important because you want your sweat-soaked liners to dry and not freeze overnight. The Patagonia Specter pullover was light and worked well for protection against any precipitation or wind. Finally, a down parka with a hood that you can throw on over all your layers when things turn for the worst is crucial, and the MontBell proved to be a good choice.

The Regrets

In the end, the only item we wished we had carried was a full-size snow shovel. The Snowclaw shovels are light and useful but when we could not poach a prefabricated tent site, building snow walls and digging out a site through hard ice layers was strenuous and back-breaking.

Conclusion

Slow and light is the only way I go anymore for mountaineering expeditions; not that I know any other way. It just seems like an unnecessary burden to carry a monster load when you can do it just as well carrying half the weight. Hopefully, all of you will find some ways to lighten up on your next mountaineering expedition.

Gear Lists

Agnes’ Gear List
Function Item Weight
Clothing worn ounces grams
Patagonia Tights 6.6 187.11
Patagonia Capilene 2 Zip Neck 5.0 141.75
Patagonia MW Capilene Tee 3.4 96.39
MH Windstopper Fleece 20.0 567
Patagonia Spector pullover 6.2 175.77
Patagonia Dimension pants 20.2 572.67
Koflach Degres boots 60.6 1718.01
Intuition Denali Liners 7.6 215.46
OR Expedition Gaiters 9.6 272.16
Smartwool liner socks 2.6 73.71
Smartwool socks 3.2 90.72
Smartwool hat 2.4 68.04
Patagonia Liner Gloves 1.2 34.02
BD Shell Gloves 3.4 96.39
Smith Empire sunglasses w/ case 2.6 73.71
Clothing Worn Total Weight 154.6 4382.91
Other Clothing ounces grams
Patagonia MW Capilene Tights (2) 9.0 255.15
Under Armour Long Sleeve 6.0 170.1
Patagonia Capilene MW Long Sleeve 6.0 170.1
Patagonia Micro Puff pullover 10.8 306.18
Montbelll UL Inner Down Pants 5.8 164.43
Montbell Ventisca Down Parka 26.8 759.78
Seirus Balaclava 2.6 73.71
Comfort Skins Neck Gaiter 1.2 34.02
Camp Booties 14.8 419.58
Integral Vapor Barrier Socks 2.4 68.04
Bolle Goggles 5 2
MH Subzero Down Mittens 11.0 311.85
Patagonia Liner Gloves 1.2 34.02
Smartwool liner socks 2.6 73.71
Smartwool socks 3.2 90.72
Other Clothing Total Weight 103.4 2931.39
Sleeping System ounces grams
REI -20 Sub Kilo Short 57.0 1615.95
Thermarest 3/4 UL 15.4 436.59
Blue Foam Pad 7.8 221.13
Sleeping System Total Weight 80.2 2273.67
Shelter ounces grams
Stephenson Warmlite 2RL (shared) – –
Integral Design Siltarp 16.0 453.6
Snow Stacks (7) 9.0 255.15
Snowclaw 6.2 175.77
Mammut Probe (shared) – –
Shelter Total Weight 31.2 884.52
Cooking System ounces grams
MSR SGK w/ Kit 20.0 567
OR Bottle Parka (2) 18.4 521.64
Nalgene (2) 13.6 385.56
33 oz MSR Fuel Bottle 15.6 442.26
Open Country 4L 11.4 323.19
Utensils 2.5 70.88
Cooking System Total Weight 81.5 2310.53
Packing System ounces grams
Golite Gust w/ straps (S) 20.0 567
Paris Expedition sled (modified) 24.0 680
Packing System Total Weight 44.0 1247
Technical Gear ounces grams
BD Whippet 20.6 584.01
Camp USA XLA 210 (60cm) 8.8 249.48
BD Sabretooth Crampons 36.2 1026.27
BD Bod 17.8 504.63
Camp Nano Carabiners (6) 7.2 204.12
Petzel Tibloc (2) 2.8 79.38
Mammut Spector Slings (2) 1.3 36.86
BD Express Screw 4 5.6 158.76
Rope 48.0 1360.8
Snow Picket 2′ 14.0 396.9
Northern Lites Snowshoes 43.0 1219.05
Technical Gear Total Weight 205.3 5820.26
Other Essentials ounces grams
First Aid Kit 4.0 113.4
Toiletries 6.0 170.1
Repair Kit (shared) – –
Freshetta 1.0 28.35
Reading Book 2.0 56.7
Other Essentials Total Weight 13.0 368.55
Consumables ounces grams
Food 411.9 11677.37
Fuel 128.0 3628.8
Water (1 liter) 32.0 907.2
Consumables Total Weight 571.9 16213.37
Matt’s Gear List
Function Item Weight
Clothing worn ounces grams
Patagonia Activist Tights 8.6 243.81
Patagonia Capilene 1 Tee 4.5 127.58
Lowe Alpine Midweight Top 8.4 238.14
MH Windstopper Fleece 23.0 652.05
Patagonia Spector Pullover 6.8 192.78
Marmot Precip 10.4 294.84
Lowa Denali Plastic Boots 65.2 1848.42
Intuition Denali Liners 10.8 306.18
OR Expedition Gaiters 12.2 345.87
Smartwool Liner Socks 3.5 99.23
Smartwool Socks 4.0 113.4
Wigwam Stocking Hat 2.0 56.7
Patagonia Liner Gloves 1.2 34.02
BD Shell Gloves 3.4 96.39
REI Glacier Glasses w/ case 4.6 130.41
Clothing Worn Total Weight 168.6 4779.81
Other Clothing ounces grams
Patagonia Tights 8.6 243.81
Under Armour Long Sleeve 7.8 221.13
Patagonia Capilene MW Long Sleeve 7.2 204.12
Patagonia Micro Puff Pullover 12.0 340.2
Montbelll UL Inner Down Pants 7.2 204.12
Sierra Design Down Parka 27.0 765.45
MH Balaclava 1.4 39.69
Columbia Neck Gaiter 1.5 42.53
OR Camp Mukluks 15.2 430.92
Integral Vapor Barrier Socks 2.4 68.04
Uvex Goggles 6.0 170.1
OR Mittens 10.2 289.17
BD Liner Gloves 2.2 62.37
Smartwool Liner Socks 3.5 99.23
Smartwool Socks 4.0 113.4
Other Clothing Total Weight 116.2 3294.27
Sleeping System ounces grams
REI -20 Sub Kilo Regular 60.0 1701
Thermarest 3/4 UL 15.4 436.59
Blue Foam Pad 8.4 238.14
Sleeping System Total Weight 83.8 2375.73
Shelter ounces grams
Stephenson Warmlite 2RL 44.2 1253.07
Integral Design Siltarp (shared) – –
Snow Stacks (shared) – –
Snowclaw 12.0 340.2
Mammut Probe 7.0 198.45
Shelter Total Weight 63.2 1791.72
Cooking System ounces grams
MSR SGK w/ Kit (shared) – –
OR Bottle Parka (2) 18.4 521.64
Nalgene (2) 13.6 385.56
33 oz MSR Fuel Bottle 15.6 442.26
Open Country 4L (shared) – –
Utensils 2.5 70.88
Cooking System Total Weight 50.1 1420.34
Packing System ounces grams
Golite Gust Pack (M) 20.0 567
Paris Expedition sled (modified) 24.0 680
Packing System Total Weight 44.0 1247
Technical Gear ounces grams
BD Whippet 20.6 584.01
Camp USA XLA 210 (70cm) 10.0 283.5
BD Sabretooth Crampons 33.8 958.23
BD Alpine Bod Harness 14.0 396.9
Camp Nano Carabiners (6) 7.2 204.12
Petzel Tibloc (2) 2.8 79.38
Mammut Spector Slings (2) 1.3 36.86
BD Express Screw (2) 5.6 158.76
Rope 48.0 1360.8
Snow Picket 2′ 14.0 396.9
Northern Lites Snowshoes 43.0 1219.05
Technical Gear Total Weight 200.3 5678.51
Other Essentials ounces grams
First Aid Kit – 0
Toiletries – 0
Repair Kit 6.0 170.1
Pee Bottle 2.2 62.37
Reading Book 2.0 56.7
Other Essentials Total Weight 10.2 289.17
Consumables ounces grams
Food 411.9 11677.37
Fuel 128.0 3628.8
Water (1 liter) 32.0 907.2
Consumables Total Weight 571.9 16213.37
Weight Summary of Matt’s Gear
Total Weight ounces kilograms pounds
Total Weight (Worn/Carried) 359.9 10.2 22.5
Total Base Pack Weight 329.3 9.34 20.6
Total Weight Consumables (Sled) 571.9 16.21 35.7
Total Initial Weight (Pack + Sled) 901.2 25.55 56.3
Full Skin Out Weight 1261.1 35.75 78.8
Weight Summary of Agnes’ Gear
Total Weight ounces kilograms Pounds
Total Weight (Worn/Carried) 368.9 10.46 23.1
Total Base Pack Weight 343.5 9.74 21.5
Total Weight Consumables (Sled) 571.9 16.21 35.7
Total Initial Weight (Pack + Sled) 915.4 25.95 57.2
Full Skin Out Weight 1284.3 36.41 80.3


Get ultralight backpacking skills, gear info, philosophy, news, and more.


Comments

Home › Forums › Doing Denali Light: Post-Trip Report and Gearlist

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 45 total)
1 2 →
Forums are supported by our merchant partners (disclosure)
REI (Coupons) • ZPacks • Hyperlite • Patagonia • Arc'teryx • RBTR • Drop • Backcountry • Feathered Friends • CampSaver • Gaia • Mountain Hardwear
Gear Deals • Gear Search
Login to post (Basic Membership required)
  • Author
    Posts
  • Aug 28, 2007 at 8:34 pm #1224808
    Benjamin Smith
    BPL Member

    @bugbomb

    Locale: South Texas

    Companion forum thread to:

    Doing Denali Light: Post-Trip Report and Gearlist

    Aug 29, 2007 at 1:50 am #1400313
    Thai Wood
    Member

    @fenrir

    I don't mean to be overly critical, but I would expect a website with membership dues to have better editing. Especially in the first paragraph.

    Aug 29, 2007 at 4:45 am #1400321
    Benjamin Smith
    BPL Member

    @bugbomb

    Locale: South Texas

    Hi Fenrir,

    Thanks for pointing out the repeated phrase – it's been fixed.

    Aug 29, 2007 at 8:03 am #1400330
    Robert Mohid
    Member

    @mohid

    First off, THANK YOU

    But I would like to point out that's it's CRITICAL that it be clearly outlined that this gear was for a late May/ early June attempt. Someone using this list as a reference for an April/early May attempt should not assume their gear will be warm enough.

    Edited following Matt's comments

    Aug 29, 2007 at 11:42 am #1400374
    Matt Hage
    Spectator

    @mattagnes

    Locale: Alaska

    Ben: Thanks for getting this up on the web site. Hopefully my pack raft will be spared of any further death threats.

    Just a couple quick clarifications. Our excursion was during the last two weeks of May. I've been high on the mountain in early May (brutally cold) and late February (beyond cold). My experience in the Alaska Range (10 years) is that you usually have a high chance of stable weather during the last two weeks of May and first two weeks of June. We tested our clothing system during a week-long winter traverse trip where the day time temps hovered in the 30-40 below range.

    Regarding our choice of ltwt ice axes. We needed to be prepared to self arrest on a snow slope and the Camp axes are perfect for that. Secondly, they would also work in a crevasse fall situation where the victim needed to claw their way out of a slot. There is little to no need for hard ice work on the route.

    Cheers
    Matt Hage

    Aug 29, 2007 at 12:09 pm #1400383
    Thomas Tait
    Member

    @islandlite

    Locale: Colorado

    Matt

    I am curious about your choice in crampons. Why not some of the light aluminum type? Durability? Points dull quickly?

    BTW great job on getting the weight of the gear down. Looks like you got it down to the essentials.

    Aug 29, 2007 at 1:35 pm #1400400
    ROBERT TANGEN
    Spectator

    @robertm2s

    Locale: Lake Tahoe

    Please arrange your next Denali climb so that you get to enjoy a 10-day blizzard at the 17,200 high camp, so I can really feel confidant in your gear set-up.

    Aug 29, 2007 at 7:54 pm #1400459
    Paul Tree
    Member

    @paul_tree

    Locale: Wowwww

    Ordinarily I would only bring a balaclava. Many of them can be pulled down around the neck. Did you find you needed-needed the neck gaiter as well?

    Edit: whoa I see the REI sub-kilos as +15 or +20, not -20 bags. But they are about 1lb 13oz, not 50 or 60 oz?? Where'd you find the heavy ones?
    http://www.rei.com/search?vcat=REI_SEARCH&query=subkilo&x=0&y=0

    Aug 29, 2007 at 9:12 pm #1400470
    Jon Rhoderick
    BPL Member

    @hotrhoddudeguy

    Locale: New England

    Well the other hat is hidden in the clothing worn, so if its not enough for full balaclava, you can put just the neck gaiter and hat on. Personally I think they could drop one. I am very interested in whether neck gaiter + hat is a good idea, because its not really that much of a difference between a neck gaiter hat vs a balaclava (full coverage OR versions aside)

    Its a typo i think. There IS an REI bag called the Kilo expedition or something like that, that goes to -20. Also in the same vein as my other question, it seems as if (and having never lived in an area that has gone below about -5), has anyone been in weather that has been too cold for a -20 but not for a -40? smart answers aside. Because I do have my doubts of cold penetrating 8 inches of 800 fill down.

    Aug 29, 2007 at 10:06 pm #1400476
    Paul Tree
    Member

    @paul_tree

    Locale: Wowwww

    I see, yeah that is pretty decent of a price too: REI Kilo Expedition -20 Sleeping Bag – Regular $359

    I would definitely think the balaclava is needed up there. High winds so you need a face mask and they stay on your head when you sleep.

    Aug 29, 2007 at 10:33 pm #1400480
    Everitt Gordon
    BPL Member

    @everitt

    Locale: North of San Francisco

    Actually it depends on how tired you are not how thick your bag is. Also the thin air of high altitude depletes your ability to create metabolic warmth. vapor bariers can help keep your precious heat from ozing away but ultimatly becoming exausted to the point you can't sleep warm can be real danger at high altitude.

    Aug 30, 2007 at 7:40 am #1400509
    Robert Mohid
    Member

    @mohid

    Exactly,

    The bag rating is secondary to your physical condition. I've overnighted in the open after a snow cave collapse. I spent the night in a -7C down bag out of the wind and a partner spent it outside in a -28c (-20f) bag. Ambient temp was about -18C with a 20mph winds.

    I was f'ing cold all night but made it till morning unhurt with no loss in my "combat effectiveness". We had to pull my partner out of his -20 bag because his hands couldn't operate his zipper. We had to warm his extremeites against our bare skin before we has functional enough to dress and feed himself.

    Aug 30, 2007 at 8:14 am #1400510
    Thomas Tait
    Member

    @islandlite

    Locale: Colorado

    High altitude adds complication to the equation of keeping warm when it is cold. If you are not generating internal heat it is impossible to stay warm regardless of all the clothing you may have. After a few really bad experiences carrying everything but the kitchen sink "just in case" I finally realized that fast and light was the way to go for me. Since that Ah Ha momemt I have really enjoyed many adventures at alititude without freezing my butt off.

    I am attacking my ice climbing gear rack this winter to shave off some weight. Unfortunatley physics rules and things can only get so light and still function. I liked Matts approach – knowing there were fixed lines only take the gear absolutely necessary. Wait – I could free solo everything! There's 30 lbs lost right there.

    Aug 30, 2007 at 9:44 am #1400516
    Michael Davis
    Member

    @mad777

    Locale: South Florida

    I think the previous postings are pointing out a very important aspect of winter camping. That is, “Sleeping bags and thick clothing do not MAKE heat, they PRESERVE heat.” Only your body can MAKE heat.

    It does this by minor flexing of the muscles or, in the case of the shivers, major flexing of the muscles. Anything that involves the use of muscles is work and work requires energy. Where does energy come from for the body? …. Food. So, it is critically important to take enough of (and the right kind of) food to provide the needed energy. I for one would love to read more articles at BPL about nutrition/energy foods for cold trips.

    The second part of the equation is “energy used.” In the summer, we can hike until we are panting like a dog and then sleep like a baby all night. However, if we don’t plan our winter trips considering the amount of exertion required, there may not be enough energy left over for heat production at night!

    So, it seems to me that gear list planning for winter excursions needs to consider the choice of food just as importantly as the choice of a sleeping bag and, trip planning needs to strive to keep enough energy reserves for a good night’s sleep.

    Aug 30, 2007 at 3:32 pm #1400560
    Roger Caffin
    Moderator

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Michael wrote:

    > I think the previous postings are pointing out a very important aspect of winter camping. That is, “Sleeping bags and thick clothing do not MAKE heat, they PRESERVE heat.” Only your body can MAKE heat.

    > gear list planning for winter excursions needs to consider the choice of food just as importantly as the choice of a sleeping bag and, trip planning needs to strive to keep enough energy reserves for a good night’s sleep.

    ABSOLUTELY, for BOTH.
    You read about climbers getting into their tent so tired they can't melt water or eat any food. Then they get high altitude sickness, collapse and wonder why.

    More articles on nutrition – hum, a good thought. The problem is that people prefer/eat such a huge range of foods, and what suits one person does not suit another. I've seen menus featuring turkey stuffing, gravy and mashed potato – frankly I couldn't!

    Aug 30, 2007 at 5:42 pm #1400576
    Jon Rhoderick
    BPL Member

    @hotrhoddudeguy

    Locale: New England

    I have a question regarding all the base layers that you brought. Do you intend to use them as a change of clothes for a 2 week expedition, or as in the Light and Fast with Gary Scott article, as multiple layers instead of just one?

    Aug 30, 2007 at 10:21 pm #1400596
    Henry Liu
    Member

    @henryliu

    I heard the fixed lines were too thick for the tiblocs to act like jumars which only handle up to 10mm rope. Is this true? Don't you need a full size ascender then? Thanks.

    Aug 31, 2007 at 11:02 am #1400630
    Neil Bender
    Member

    @nebender

    Petzl shows on the side of a tibloc the diameter range they are designed for is 8,5mm to 11mm. They are reported not to work well on frozen ropes (no eprsonal experience). An iced up 11mm would have the problem of maybe getting too big to squeeze into the tibloc, and also ice plugging the gripper teeth. Full size ascenders are much easier to deal with when wearing gloves.

    Sep 2, 2007 at 4:35 pm #1400820
    Matt Hage
    Spectator

    @mattagnes

    Locale: Alaska

    Crampons: Ltwt aluminum spikes could be a fine choice for the West Buttress, but since we made the choice to go very light on the ice axe, we wanted to make sure that we had excellent footing when presented with blue ice. There was a very exposed section of blue ice above Lunch Rocks this season. A one-foot wide trail of packed snow switched-backed up the slope, but we did crunch up a lot of bullet proof ice on that section. Four times actually with our carry of supplies to Windy Corner. On that type of ice, which is common on this route, a full strength ice axe is not going to help after you get sliding, but full strength crampons will bite perfectly as long as you don’t hedge or catch a gaiter.

    Sep 2, 2007 at 4:41 pm #1400822
    Matt Hage
    Spectator

    @mattagnes

    Locale: Alaska

    Packing a balaclava, hat and neck gaiter may seem redundant, but this system covers three levels of cold on Denali’s West Buttress. You can wear just the hat on most days or combine with a cozy neck gaiter on colder/windier days. And then you wear the balaclava under the hat and neck gaiter before tucking back into your parka hood on those stretches of brutal cold/high winds. It’s layering for your head/neck.

    Sep 2, 2007 at 4:54 pm #1400823
    Jon Rhoderick
    BPL Member

    @hotrhoddudeguy

    Locale: New England

    Robert stated earlier that this is obviously not a winter gear list, so what else would you need for that? Vapor Barriers? huge down jacket? I recently pulled up two old articles that a related to such cold weather hiking and climbing. 6 years ago there was an interview with an adventure racer named Bill Merchant, who said he wore a down jacket and a 400 weight fleece all the way down to -50! Granted he also was OK with leaving out a pad for his lightest outdoor trips, but it suggests that leg insulation really isn't nearly as important as the upper body. Also the fleece is much better against conductive heat from sitting down at breaks. Another article, the arc alpinist review had a section in which the designer Don Johnston took this 20* quilt to 0 degrees in a freezer, with little leg insulation, and only his feet were cold. Obviously thermal conductivity operates differently at -50 or -40 than at 0 degrees, but would booties help stretch a "lighter" expedition bag with 30 oz or less fill? Another place to look at is Andrew Skurka's Icebox trip, where for 16 days he endured low temperatures, and put much more emphasis on vapor barrier clothing than the Denali expedition, helping preserve the little down he had and keep himself warmer in the long term.

    So with these thoughts, would you really need that much for a colder expedition? I obviously have no experiance with any of these environments, but I hope some people who do could debate that.

    Sep 2, 2007 at 5:02 pm #1400824
    Matt Hage
    Spectator

    @mattagnes

    Locale: Alaska

    I don’t think there is a need for a full size ascender on the West Buttress head wall. Petzl’s Accession weighs in at 6 oz compared to just over 1 oz for a Tibloc. The fixed lines are fat and they can be icy. But the angle is far from vertical (50 degrees) and you should just be using the fixed lines in place of a running belay. We were able to use the Tiblocs with no problems this season, though the lines did fill ‘em up. But the next option is to not use an ascender at all. Just attach two opposed carabiners to your daisy chain for an improvised via ferrata. Clip the fixed line and climb the up the section using your axe and crampons. Get to the next picket, sink your axe self belay style and clip around the picket. If you or your partner are to loose their footing, the ensemble of fixed ropes is very dynamic.

    Sep 2, 2007 at 6:10 pm #1400826
    Tjaard Breeuwer
    BPL Member

    @tjaard

    Locale: Minnesota, USA

    How did you use the windstopper (I assume they were jackets)? And wich ones were they?

    I had kind off come to the conclusion that WS is not breathable enough for high energy moments and to heavy/warmth for low activity moments.

    How did this work out for you?

    Sep 3, 2007 at 3:56 pm #1400900
    ROBERT TANGEN
    Spectator

    @robertm2s

    Locale: Lake Tahoe

    I am no expert, but if we do a little thought-experiment, let’s say a person who has no overboots is climbing up Denali, and at Denali Pass it is calm, sunny and a mild 0 degrees F. Then, at the “Football Field,” the wind has picked up to 20 MPH, and it is minus 20. On the summit, the wind is 30 MPH, the temp is minus 30. Back down to the “Football Field” and it is cloudy, with winds at 40 MPH and the temp at minus 40. The climber only has Koflach Degre boots, with no overboots or even super-gaiters. They say a much warmer boot is the Koflach Arctis Expe, and even warmer is the La Sportiva Olympus Mons. At Denali Pass there are several lenticular clouds above the summit, like a stack of pancakes, and it is minus 60 with winds at 60 MPH, and from a non-expert’s point of view it looks like frostbite with amputation of some of the toes for anyone wearing Koflach Degre boots with no overboots.

    Sep 3, 2007 at 6:24 pm #1400919
    Matt Hage
    Spectator

    @mattagnes

    Locale: Alaska

    Hey Robert,

    What you have described is deteriorating weather conditions during a summit bid. This happens often high on Denali and has turned me around on two occasions. Twenty mph winds at 20-below put the wind chill temp into the danger zone (-48). Thirty mph winds at -30 are just brutal at -67. You will also begin to suffer from low visibility when winds on the upper mountain approach 30 mph. Forty mph brings a full lenticular on top. My personal cut off is around 15 mph at 15-below (-39).

    Overboots are the norm for the West Buttress and I’ve carried them on every other trip. For our Denali Light excursion we used Intuition Denali liners, which offered a greater ‘R’ value than the stock Koflach booties. We also packed vapor barrier liners for our feet that could add about 10 degrees to our insulation. Our decision going to the mountain was that if the conditions are too cold for this set-up, then we don’t go. My partner and I don’t have any biz jacking around above 18,000 ft in conditions colder than 40-below. The human machine doesn’t produce heat as efficiently at these altitudes and the risk of frost bite is too high. We actually had a guy in Anchorage show off his frost bitten toes from this season. Not only did he have his overboots, but also 75-pounds of the lightest mountaineering gear known to man. Sometimes I wonder if overboots give a false sense of security to Denali climbers.

    Our safety depended on being able to move fast in response to changing conditions. In my opinion, overboots create a hazard for the dog-tired climber descending from Denali Pass. This is a high accident area with many fatal falls. We also wanted to keep pack weight down so not to bring ourselves to exhaustion. Once the decision is made to descend, Agnes and I want to be able to move quickly and safely to a lower elevation.

    MH-

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 45 total)
1 2 →
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Log In

Want outdoor gear and skills info you can really trust?

Get our Handbook - the resource you need to make intelligent decisions about gear, safety, comfort, and pack weight.


Today's Gear Deals

Guide’s Gear Recommendations

Find out what gear our guides recommend if you want lightweight gear that is durable and versatile.

guide's gear logo

Gear Recommendations

  • Publisher’s Gear Guide
  • Staff Picks
  • Guide’s Gear Recommendations
  • Our Lightweight Gear Recommendations for REI Members
  • Today’s Gear Deals
  • Search for Gear on Sale

Subscribe Right Now

Receive new Members-only content, gain access to 2,000+ articles in the archives, and become a part of the most passionate community of backpacking experts in the world.
Subscribe Now
  • Backpacking Gear Reviews
  • Backpacking Skills
  • Backpacking Trips
  • Backpacking & Outdoor News
  • Outdoor Recreation Science & Technology
  • Backpacking Courses, Webinars & Other Events

Follow Us

Get outdoor skills and gear info you can trust.

Download the Backpacking Light Handbook to help you make intelligent decisions about gear, skills, ultralight philosophy, and reducing your pack weight.

Join Now: Support fair and objective product reviews.

Something for everyone: Basic, Premium, and Unlimited Membership options available.

View Subscription Options

More @ Backpacking Light

  • About Us
  • Jobs
  • Advertise with Us
  • Write for Us
  • Submit a Product for Review
  • Diversity Grants
  • Help / Support / Contact
  • Terms & Policies

Call Us

Membership Sales & Support: 406-640-HIKE (406-640-4453) | About

© Copyright 2001-2021 BEARTOOTH MEDIA GROUP, INC. | U.S. Library of Congress Serial Registration ISSN 1537-0364
BACKPACKING LIGHT® and the FEATHER/MOUNTAIN icon are registered trademarks granted for exclusive use to Beartooth Media Group, Inc. Subscribe here.

  • Subscribe
  • Log In
  • My Account
  • Forum Profile
  • Private Messages
  • Newsletters
  • My Course Enrollments
  • Unlimited Membership Portal
  • Help / Support / Contact