Winter 15f Gear List

[Justin Baker]

I am putting together a gear list for this winter. This list is for a low of 15 degrees at the coldest. Not super cold but deep snow and possibly lots of falling snow. It’s missing a few small items, but I think I got most of it on there. I have camped in the snow a few times and I am trying to expand my skills. I am not trying to go super light, just reasonably light and safe. For colder weather I have a 0 degree sleeping bag, could add an extra mid layer, and would probably buy a warmer down jacket. I tend to get cold pretty easily. I would appreciate any input or thoughts!

https://lighterpack.com/r/8yimcb

[Matthew S]

Looks good! I don’t know about the west, but in the midwest, seeing 15F in the forecast can mean you get 0F. I would imagine western mountains have even less precision? What Mora do you have that’s 2.8?

[Justin Baker]

I would mostly be dealing with temps between 20-40 degrees in the sierra nevada mountains but I have gear to adjust if its going to get lower. It’s a mora 2/0, the classic red handle one.

[Bob Moulder]

Having to remove traction gear and footwear to put on leg layers is a huge PITA. Something to keep in mind for the active worn shell pants and for in-camp pants is that it is super handy to have full side zips so that they can be donned/removed while wearing snowshoes, crampons, etc and also for ventilation, which will also greatly reduce the need for putting them on and taking them off. MB Down TEC pants and some shell pants with full side zips are great. I find that pants tend to work their way down, so suspenders might be a good idea. The best I’ve found are the Montbell suspenders.

Didn’t see any microspikes on the list, but that’s your call as to necessity.

Trekking poles? With 5″ baskets would be good for softer snow.

Sunglasses are definitely a necessity.

Didn’t see any hats, either. I use a fleece beanie and a fleece-lined shell hat with full ear flaps that wrap around the chin.

Personally, I would get rid of the windshirt and keep the rain jacket only. Combine the Haglof hoodie and MB Chameece into a single 150 wt fleece jacket.

I would definitely want some mitten shells in addition to the gloves. A flexible, lightweight combo would be thin liner gloves, 200 wt fleece gloves and some MLD rain mitts for shells, which allows for a wider temperature range and different conditions.

Gaiters not specified. I like these OR Endurance.

Maybe other things, but that’s a start.

[Justin Baker]

Bob, yes I have microspikes if needed.

Good point about removing and adding pants with boots and snowshoes on. I need to think that one through.

I haven’t carried a warm hat backpacking in years because I always carry layers with hoods, that seems to work fine.

Regarding 1 mid layer instead of 2, I tend to get both cold and hot very easily. I am constantly adjusting layers. With a 150 weight fleece, I could be overheating with it on or too cold with it off. I need a lot of small adjustability. In particular, I need my second layer over my base layer to be very thin. Sometimes I wear a second base layer over my first base layer. I know some people can wear one thicker layer and be fine over different temperatures and activity levels, but that’s definitely not me.

I like my windshirt because I can use it to block wind without overheating like crazy in a waterproof jacket.

Thanks for the reccomendation on gaiters. I have some cheap REI gaiters, I’m not sure if they are supposed to be waterproof.

I also really need some waterproof mittens. I was thinking about getting the outdoor research shuksan mittens

and pairing them with these if its a bit colder: Outdoor Research Men’s Pl 400 Sensor Mitts

 

[Matt Dirksen]

Make sure you have a bottle capable of holding hot water in it.

And a small towel to deal with any water or condensation that might show up. 15d weather is fine, but freezing rain is the worst. If it’s cold/humid, it can be a nightmare if you can’t properly manage moisture.

[Brad Rogers]

I am not used to deep snow, but I do use a 3 layer glove system with liner gloves, fleece mitts, and then a wp/b mitt.

For the liner gloves I tend to use powerstrech gloves.  Mountain Hardwear and Black Diamond make some.

For the mitts, I had the mitts you mention (pre sensor) and prefer plain 200wt fleece mitts and think they are warmer than the PL400 mitts.  The ones I use are from Ragged Mountain and are warmer than the PL400 mitts and a heck of a lot cheaper.

For waterproof mitts, I used MLD eVent mitts until they eventually delaminated.  Now I use extremities Tuff Bags, which are heavier, but more durable.  I have been very happy with them.

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[Brad Rogers]

Also –  What size are your Cabelas Thermal Pro pants that are 11oz?  I have seen those on their site but they don’t have weights listed.

[Justin Baker]

Size medium. I do find they are snug in the calves with no stretch, so if you have big calves they might not fit you well. I also have some borah gear down pants that weight 6 oz. I think the down pants are comparable in warmth if not warmer but I find myself carrying the thermal pro pants because they are so dang comfy. Like I can be cold and miserable setting up camp but as soon as I put on my super fluffy pants, I suddenly feel relaxed and happy.

I originally bought them to pair with my 300 weight melanzana high loft hoodie (thermal pro) as a nuclear option for crappy wet weather and extra safety when packrafting without a dry suit. If you flip your boat they can keep you warm-ish or at least delay the debilitating cold until you can set up camp.

[Roger Caffin]

Not sure whether you have a good enough mat. Consider adding a layer of 1/4″ CCF maybe – very light. Note that the CCF can also be used to sit on for meal breaks during the day. One can usually just brush the snow off it.

I don’t like white gas but that’s me. In any event, lots of fuel. And a good windshield.

Cocoa! And chocolate.

Sunglasses or equivalent

Waterproof map cover

Cheers

[Justin Baker]

Hey Roger, the msr windpro is an inverted canister stove. The weight I listed includes the stove, the windscreen, the ground plate, and the small stuff sack.

The xtherm has an r value 5.7. Do you think more insulation than that would help on the snow? I do have a 3/4 inch tosro length pad that I always carry, or would it be better to have a thinner full length pad?

Thanks

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Justin

the msr windpro is an inverted canister stove.
My stupids. I was thinking of the Whisperlight. Too early in the morning here, and pre-breakfast! But be generous with the fuel weight.

The xtherm has an r value 5.7.
That number sounds fairly good, but I have reservations about it. It relies on baffles to get this, and in my experience that technology is weak against internal air movement due to your turning over. I prefer something like the Exped UL7 as that has a layer of synthetic insulation on the inside which is not susceptible to air movement. The UL7s are good, but I still add a 1/8″ layer of CCF under them. ‘Under’ rather than ‘on top’, as the CCF is not compressed locally (by hips or shoulders) when it is under the air mat.
As a minor point, I prefer rectangular mats to tapered mats, especially when there are two of us sleeping snuggled up. The difference in weight is very small, but the difference in convenience seems quite large.

Cheers

 

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Justin,

You gear list looks pretty good. A bit light on the mattress but it’s your choice. As a former Nordic ski patroller and Army ROTC winter survival instructor I recommend one addition.

VBLs:   US Divers 3 mm neoprene divers sox over light polypropylene or polyester liner sox. This brand is already seam sealed to save you the trouble. These neoprene sox are a VBL (Vapor Barrier Liner) that are not only warmer than heavy wool socks but they keep your boot insulation dry all day long.  Especially in snow situations you need VBLs and these are far better than waterproof ripstop VBL socks over regular socks. Forget the heavy trekking socks. Just take 1 pair of thin poly liner socks for each day.

1. At night you remove boot liners (put in sleeping bag),
2. telescope the outer boot tops and store them in your vestiibule
3. remove neoprene VBL sox and liner sox (liners go in ZipLoc 1 qt. freezer bag tightly zipped shut!)
4. turn VBLs inside out to dry for 20 min. in tent then put in foot of your sleeping bag with boot liners
5. put on clean liner sox and sleeping sox
6. don a balaclava and have sweet dreams – until you get up to pee at O dark thirty ;o)

Also zip up your GTX parka & cinch the hood down, put parka over the foot of your bag to protect it from melting the frost that collects on your tent walls overnight. (More warmth, less wet.)

In addition I’d go with knee high GTX gaiters tor more warmth, especially around camp. Low gaiters suck in the snow.

[Bri W]

If you’re looking for a good lightweight, waterproof mitt to layer with other mitts, I really like Borah Gear’s eVent mitt. It’s super simple and inexpensive.

If you’re interested in the VBL idea aforementioned, I haven’t tried these personally but RBH Designs has an ultralight backpacking mitt. I’m hoping to get those suckers for Christmas. :)

[Bri W]

Oh, also…have you tried the Neoshells in the snow yet? Or tested out their waterproof abilities? Maybe I have one defective shoe, but I submerged my toe box and lower quarter of the tongue briefly while walking through a creek and water got through the tongue into my sock immediately. I took the sock off to double check that I wasn’t just feeling the cold, and it was indeed wet. It was only one shoe. The other kept the water out.  Bummed me out. The tongue is supposed to be gussetted. I was planning on using these for snowshoeing but now I’m not so sure. Let us know how they work for you! Maybe I just need to contact Altra.

[Justin Baker]

Eric, I have heard you recommend the neo socks in other threads. I am planning on giving them a try. I was going to head down to a local dive shop with my shoes and find some that are the right thickness to give a good fit.

Bri, I tried the shoes in my bath tub and they did leak near the tongue. I’m hoping that won’t be an issue for snow and gaiters. The shoes are made from neoshell which is listed as having a cfm of 0.5 (as a comparison, the Patagonia houdini windshirt is 3 cfm) so I’m hoping the shoes will he able to dry out if I accidentally get them soaked.

[Bri W]

Justin, Altra responded to my email about the waterprooficity of the Lonepeak Neoshell 3.0s. He said they’re not waterproof. Bummer. But I’m hoping to use them for snowshoeing as well, but coupled with some waterproof overbooties. Our snow is still very wet here in Southern Oregon.

Regarding your MH Direkt2, do you like this tent? I can’t decide if I want to get this or the BD Firstlight. The Direkt2 is waterproof, but I haven’t been able to find more lightweight carbon poles for this tent to further reduce the weight like I can with the Firstlight. Have you had condensation issues with the Direkt2?

[Link .]

This is one of several comments from the Altra site about the them not really being waterproof

I purchased these Lone Peak 3.0 NeoShell Mid’s at the end of August. I was under the impression that these were waterproof, but I found out otherwise yesterday. I really enjoy the shoe and have used them on trail with great results, and have also worn them on pavement. Yesterday I wore them for the first time during a rainstorm and was surprised that my feet were soaked at the end of my walk. I was originally led to believe by a salesman that these were fully waterproof. Talking to an Altra customer service rep, he informed me that they have not been able to find a way yet to waterproof around the stitching. For the purposes that I purchased these for, they will not work for me. I anticipated being able to wear them in any condition, and mostly for our rainy northwest winters. As soon as they guarantee a waterproof shoe, I’ll buy another pair. Great mid shoe otherwise!

[Bri W]

I, too, was told they were waterproof! I think they’ll be fine for snowshoeing with a bootie, but I’m with you: next year I’ll just find a fully waterproof running shoe. Or I’ll just use my more comfortable lightweight Altras with booties.

[Justin Baker]

Do you know in what way they are not waterproof? What part of the stitching have they been unable to seal? Is it just around the tongue?

[Bri W]

I don’t know, but this is the response from Altra:

“The Lone Peak Neoshell is a waterproof material, not a waterproof shoe. The tongue and gussets are neoshell and will help keep water out but when submerged you will get water that comes through. So this would not be a defect.”

[Bruce Tolley]

Justin

For Winter snow camping in the Sierra Nevada below tree line I found that my xtherm tended to radiate heat out the sides and I could not sleep on snow without additional closed cell insulation on top of or underneath it.

I looked at some of the single layer tents made of socalled waterproof breathable fabrics from BD and MH and decided to pass.  YMMV but there are multiple reviews on line about such fabrics misting and being prone to severe condensation in wet snowy weather below treeline versus alpine ascents where you are camping above treeline.   I just use a Mid or dig a snow shelter.

Cheers

[Justin Baker]

If it’s not sealed around the tongue, I think it might be ok with gaiters. We get wet snow conditions but wet snow conditions with 5 feet of snow and met snow conditions with 6 inches of snow are different, in the later you get lots of slush puddles and streams (in which case I would rather use goretex socks with my altra superiors). But I will have to see how they work out.

I will give the direkt 2 a try this winter and see how it works. I don’t think its a wpb fabric, just wp. I also own a duomid.

[Alex Wallace]

Justin, How do you like the SD Flex Capacitor backpack? Any feedback whatsoever is appreciated. Thanks.

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