WideSea/Soto WindMaster: a Jetboil Stash alternative

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I decided to create a new thread: alternatives to the JetBoil Stash.  Pithawat V wished to try out the with a Soto WindMaster with a WideSea HX pot.  I happened to have both items on hand and volunteered to collect some test data

Sea to Summit pot combo – 8.5 oz (it comes with a 3.4 oz frypan/pot for a lid)

Pot alone – 5.1 oz

Plastic lid (1 quart yogurt lid) – 0.3 oz

(Reference Stash – pot & lid 5.2 oz)

Fuel needed to boil 500 ml of 63F water – 6.5 grams (calm conditions) [Stash~5 grams]

Brought 500 ml of 63 F water to 175 Fin 8 minutes consuming 23.8 grams of fuel (8mph wind)

Calm conditions

8 mph wind

Note: not great but the Stash cannot boil water above 5 mph

Opinion

The fuel consumption in calm conditions is not as good as the JetBoil Stash.  This is to be expected as the stove to bottom of the pot cannot be optimized due to the flux ring geometry.  Slight gains may be realized by turning the power down even further.

Performance in the  wind is far superior.  I would speculate that the Widesea/Soto system performance at an 8 mph wind was on par with the JetBoil stash at 5 mph wind.  That being said, both systems would benefit from a windscreen.

 

Conclusion

Overall, the performance of the WideSea/Soto combination is equal to or better than the JetBoil Stash.  Assuming that you can find an appropriate lid, the system is extremely cost effective.  The total list price was $82.04 compared to the Stash at $129.95 or 37% savings.

 

WideSea  $17.09

Soto WindMaster  $64.96

[Bob Shuff]

I was going to ask when you will have an Ocelot Windscreen for the Soto WindMaster, but I just checked and saw that it’s already there.  It would be good to see the difference using that in the wind test.

I previously was using the Olicamp pot with a Snow Peak stove, but switched to the Windmaster (or alcohol stoves) with lighter Ti pots.  If I’m headed somewhere I know will be windy, I take an MSR Windburner, which I consider in a different class altogether.

[CS]

Am I reading the weight measurements right? The Stash is still about half the weight?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Stash – 5.2 oz

WideSea pot with plastic lid – 5.4 oz

This is for an Apples to Apples comparision.  The WideSea pot comes with a pot for a lid.  For this comparision, I did not inclued the lid but added a 0.3 oz plastic quart size lid that fits pretty well.  Sorry for the confusion.  In the first phot, you can see the lid on the table.

[CS]

Oh, I see, so the weight is just comparing the pots, sans stove. Got it.

[Chris FormyDuval]

Jon, do you think it would work to cut slots in the ring to allow the burner to be closer to the pot?

[J-L]

My Stash alternative is the Soto Windmaster and the pot from the Sterno Inferno stove kit. The Sterno Inferno pot weighs 125g/4.4oz by itself (no lid, but with handles).

I cut some small slits into the bottom of the pot for the pot supports. It can use stoves with 3 or 4 supports. The Windmaster works particularly well, and the burner is well shielded from the wind. My “in-the-field” fuel efficiency is < 5g per 2 cup boil, but I run my stove on “low” and don’t go to a full rolling boil. It’s no MSR Reactor or WindBurner, but it’s quite amazing how well this setup does in the wind.

View from the bottom:

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

John answered your question, slots will allow you to get the optimal stove to pot distance by design.

[Chris FormyDuval]

Thanks! What are you using for a sterno lid?

[J-L]

No lid for me! It boils so quickly, I don’t see the need for one. I did make a little reflectix cozy for the bottom of the pot. It only covers the heat exchanger portion of the pot.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

BTW, I agree with J-L 100%!  there is no need for a lid.  In fact, a lid is more dangerous on the Inferno and the volume is low and it is supper easy to boil over.

[Pithawat V]

Amazing, thank you for all this data. I decided to buy the Windsea pot via Ali express and still waiting for it to arrive :(

I’m also planning to cut slots so the Windmaster can sit inside the fins. Will do a pre and post efficiency comparison once I get the pot.

[Chris FormyDuval]

I’ve got a 3rd party lid that almost fits, don’t remember where it came from, just wondering about other options. I’ve had good luck using the inferno with alcohol even in nasty weather. It really is a versatile little pot.

[YoPrawn]

The Windmaster has detachable pot supports, so it wouldn’t be too difficult to modify or build a custom support that sits lower on the HX pot, without having to cut the pot.

On the other hand, cutting the pot is a free weight reduction.

I might look into doing this with my Windmaster. I have the 3 way support for it and it should easily slide into some thin cut slits.

One thing to keep in mind is that these HX pots might not be designed to handle such high output stoves when set to full blast. Could be possible to melt some bits, eh?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Antidotal data here.  I have been testing a lot of HX pot (Stash, Inferno, Firemaple 1 l, WideSea, Bulin).  Many by boiling 2 cups of cold water in the 2-3 minute range.  I have not seen a problem yet.  A bigger problem (IMO) is sitting the HX pot directly on top of the stove in the wind.  If the wind is high enough to blow the flame off the bottom of the pot, it can melt the base of the HX support.  My 2 cents.

[J-L]

I have well over 100 boils with my Sterno Inferno pot. No issues so far!

[bradmacmt]

My Sterno Inferno mod I posted here a couple weeks ago. Use it with or without the windscreen.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/heat-exchanger-stove-w-windscreen/

[Ray Klahne]

The Toaks 115mm titanium lid is a perfect fit on the Widesea pot.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Good to know, I just ordered one.

 

Thanks,

Jon

[Bill in Roswell]

All of the threads on the HPX topic have been fantastic. Ive enjoyed Jon’s videos as well as input. Thanks to other members for the research and effort.

The focus of course is on gas stoves, but in my estimation wind has an even greater effect on alcohol and Esbit.

I can’t say that is worth testing, just an observation. I don’t have the testing gear needed.

Cheers, Bill in Roswell

 

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Here is my opinion: using an HX pot with Esbit or a passive alcohol stove will not have a great benefit.  With an isobutane stove, you can create high velocity exhaust gasses that will transfer heat effectively via the fines.  A 20%-30% increase in fu efficiency is pretty typical.  My hypothesis is that alcohol flames produce a low velocity exhaust profile and the first e pitch of the fins are too restrictive for low velocity flow, hence, minimal efficiency gain.  My 2 cents.

[Author]

Posts