Why am I so cold?!

[Roger Caffin]

It may also be worth noting that many American sleeping bags are seriously over-rated. Testing to proper published Standards has shown excesses of over 10 C in some claims. This is not confined to American brands, but they are conspicuous by their prevalence.

Your bag may just not be as good as you had thought.

Cheers

[Billy Ray]

“I don’t think the original poster mentioned anything about staying warm in a hammock…she sleeps on the ground with a pad.”

Er… you expect us to stay ‘on topic’?

Wake up guy… this is BPL… where topics morph and take on a life of their own :)

billy

[Billy Ray]

Roger… “It may also be worth noting that many American sleeping bags are seriously over-rated. Testing to proper published Standards has shown excesses of over 10 C in some claims.”

Do you have something to support this assertion or is this just opinion?

I’m not arguing with you. I suspect the same. But can you prove it?

billy

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Billy

It is fairly well known. Mammut did a huge test on this years ago. See

http://www.mammut.ch/documents/Schlafsaecke/Downloads/Sleep%20Well/Mammut_Sleep_well_pt1_E.pdf

Cheers

 

[Bri W]

I’ll pass on hammock camping…too heavy and not the most comfortable for me.

[Anonymous]

As an alternative to regular butter, Google powdered butter. It has much better storage qualities and is lighter. simply add a little water to achieve the desired consistency and use it like normal butter. If adding to chocolate, you probably won’t need to add much extra water. Also, get some extra protein in your evening meal. The digestion of protein produces over two times the heat of fat or carbs. It will be more effective in heating the air space inside your quilt.

[Todd Stough]

Billy my suggestion for the hammock is because you can get really warm under quilts.  If sleeping on a pad just doesn’t work for her than maybe try something else.  Just another suggestion as well as a place to rent.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I bring two sleeping bags and then make sure campsite selection is way high on my list. Sleep next to a creek or lake and freeze. Sleep high away from water, katabatic air and too much wind in a nice sheltered nook and I’m comfy. My two sleeping bags are a 20 degree quilt and a 45 degree quilt. The 45 degree quilt is usually just draped over like a blanket but sometimes I’ll thread the straps from the 20 degree quilt through it. The 45 degree quilt is wearable so I can wear it like a poncho while I’m doing things in the tent before and after sleeping. It weighs the same as a Patagonia down sweater so now I just bring the quilt and leave the down sweater home. I never hike wearing either.

[Bri W]

Just an update…went camping this weekend along Squaw Lakes in Southern Oregon. It rained and hailed on and off throughout the weekend, lows were around 40-45F. My Snowyside bivy performed flawlessly completely zipped up. I didn’t get any condensation or rain seeping through, even while sleeping next to the lake.

I bought a regular length NeoAir XTherm during REI’s anniversary sale. I also brought my medium-thickness Darn Tough wool socks. I ate high-fat, calorie, and protein dinners before going to bed, and slept with a warm water bottle. I helped move wood piles just before bed to get my heart rate going but not enough to sweat. On the first night, I woke up cold so I put my merino wool dress, Floodlight down jacket, my Helium rain pants on, and rain mittens on, and I felt much better. The second night I went to bed with all of these on, plus two pairs of socks and I didn’t wake up cold once. In fact, I was very cozy and warm all night, so THANK YOU, BPL, for helping me with this problem. So many great suggestions.

To prepare for my High Sierras trip, I think I will be investing in down pants and booties/socks. I’ll be bringing a down jacket, but it won’t be as warm (or as heavy) as my Floodlight. I also won’t be bringing my Helium rain pants, because I’ll have a poncho.

So since I have some Montbell credit, I was looking at the Women’s Down Superior pants, size small. They would be for camp and sleeping, and since I slept so warmly with my rain pants and wool BLs on, I thought the 1.8 oz of fill would be sufficient. Although the Goosefeet Gear pants look warmer, they are also a lot more expensive.

I’m also looking at standard 35°F Goosefeet Gear booties. In general, I tend to hate wearing socks to bed, so I’m worried if I add extra fill to these, my feet will be uncomfortably warm.

Any yeas or nays to these ideas?

[Roger Caffin]

I would wonder about adding a 1/4″ CCF underlay to your mat. better ground insulation might help a lot – it usually does. The foam is not heavy.

Cheers

 

[Bri W]

Oh! Thanks for reminding me…I also had my 1/8″ GG Thinlight under me. The first night I was on a hillside and kept sliding (forgot my stakes), so I put the GG pad under the bivy. That helped. The second night I had it folded up and placed under and perpendicular to my Xtherm so that if my arms slid off the side they’d be insulated. :) that helped, too!

[Roger Caffin]

Yeah, the ground can be surprisingly cold at 2 am.

Cheers

[Cody Hallenbeck]

Hey Bri, glad to hear that you’re sorting this out. My feedback is to prepare for wind in the High Sierras. I did the Sierra High Route last August/September with a Neoair Xlite, 20deg EE Revelation, Zpacks hood, WM Quickflash jacket, and using a 8.5×8.5′ HMG flat tarp as a sleep system and it was just adequate for me, a 5’10, 190lb male backpacker who tends to sleep warm. The crux was always wind, which was often very intense, particularly in areas above treeline. Temps probably got down to the mid 20s semi frequently–definitely woke up to frost often. We never experienced rain, but set the tarp up pretty often to control wind, and had to get pretty creative with setup to get maximum wind protection. In retrospect, I wish I’d either paired a tarp with a splash bivy or brought a more enclosed shelter. I ended up wearing everything most nights (thermals, down jacket, frogtoggz raingear).

If I were you (and I could swing it financially), I’d throw down for a 0deg quilt, since you sleep cold it should be appropriate in the same way my 20deg is appropriate for me in most summer subalpine/alpine conditions. You could sell your old quilt to offset the cost.

[Bri W]

Thanks! I’ve been working with Enlightened Equipment to improve my warmth (e.g., wash the quilt, use the straps/snap it up around the neck/cinch it up), and they have been very helpful. But if I were to add down, I can only drop it down to 10° due to the baffle size. And since their lead times are soooooo long, I’d never sell mine and get a warmer one in time for my trip in July. ? I will definitely consider that option after the trip, though.

Regarding the tarp, I’ll be bringing along a Sea To Summit ultrasil Nano Tarp Poncho. Hopefully that will help block some draft! For extremely windy nights, my grandpa has a Zpacks Duplex. I can always share a tent with him if the wind is unbearably cold.

[Katherine .]

“For extremely windy nights, my grandpa has a Zpacks Duplex. ”

That is so awesome that you’re backpacking with your grandpa!

[Bri W]

Well, he’s a young grandpa, in his 50s I think, and he’s in better shape than I am! He lives in Ridgecrest and runs/hikes the desert hills every day and the Sierras on many weekends. He’s got a place up in Kennedy Meadows, so he has access to all kinds of cool backpacking/camping/hiking adventures. He’s also the one who has taken me camping and backpacking my whole life, so this will be a really great trip for us. Plus, he’s getting the UL Fever on account of his “old knees,” so he might be coming on this forum pretty soon! :)

[Anonymous]

“I would wonder about adding a 1/4″ CCF underlay to your mat. better ground insulation might help a lot – it usually does. The foam is not heavy.”

+1 Remember, you will be at a much higher altitude, and it can get quite cold up there. Every bit of insulation will come in handy.

[Mike In Socal]

It may not be the gear you are using.  Are you drinking enough water to stay properly hydrated?  Dehydration might be making it difficult for your body to regulate it’s temperature which could lead to feeling chronically cold.

There are a lot of articles about it.  Here’s one.

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

I am quite well aware of the risks of dehydration in hot weather (and of the equally serious risks of over-hydration, or hyponatemia). They are well documented and common sense.

I am aware that some people feel that there are risks of becoming dehydrated in cold weather, although the evidence here is small and does not always conform to common sense. Never mind.

But I am not aware of any published refereed medical research which shows that (mild) dehydration can lead to problems of feeling chronically cold. I would appreciate URLs to any published research on this. Hype and amateur articles in sports mags are of no use – they can be equally due to ignorance or more often marketing spin.

Cheers

 

[Ed Biermann]

BPL is now pimping this thread on their Facebook page. Forum members as product once again.

Go team! Behave yourselves.

[James holden]

at the temps limits of a system below freezing an actual sleeping bag may be “warmer” than a quilt …

the sleeping bag basically has no chance of drafts or “leakage” once its fully zipped up … its “stupid simple” to use

in fact a well fitted sleeping bag buttoned up you should be in a “cocoon” of body heat from head to toe … a quilt is broken at the neck so that the body warmth between the head and body is not shared (or might leak)

especially at lower temps, with a quilt one basically looks like one is using a sleeping bag anyways at that point at its temps limits …

from EEs site …

now in a double walled tent thats buttoned up (single walled tents need ventilation) thats probably much less of an issue …

also in higher winds even in a bivy the insulation may become compressed … BPL has an article on the effects of such and why some hardshells are made quite stiff … not to mention the heat loss from the wind ….

i own and use an EE quilt, and sleeping bags …

;)

[Roger Caffin]

a quilt is broken at the neck so that the body warmth between the head and body is not shared (or might leak)

Dunno about that one. My quilt is long enough that it can go over my head. We have used our summer quilts down to -7 C. Granted, having my wife snuggled up beside me helped. :-)

Cheers

[James holden]

ahhh … but this is BPL where we get quilts on the lower end of the sizing to save weight … not to mention we generally dont pull it over the head so as to not breath in it

not to mention that many folks simply use a beanie or the hood of their down jacket sweater (which isnt very thick compared to a proper sleeping bag or dedicated quilt hood)

im glad i got my EE in regular length rather than a short, being able to pull a bundle around the neck makes a difference and minimizes the gap

once you add up all the things to get a quilt to work at its temp limits (wide, straps, hood), there isnt too much of a savings over a sleeping bag weight or price wise (especially as you can get sleeping bags for 20-40% off sales all the time)

one interesting thing is the new marmot bags have increased their EN-ratings with the same amount of down generally (and even went down from 850 to 800 fill) simply by redesigning the footbox, baffles  and hood closure to minimize heat loss

in some cases the gain has been 5-10F in the comfort level

the new hood closure on the new marmots is the best ive seen (heat loss wise) yet …

;)

 

[Bri W]

Is it still the case with a hoodlum? At first I wasn’t able to get the quilt up past my arm pits, but I realized I had cinched the top town so much that it had shortened the length. Once I fluffed some down to the upper baffle regions and put my hoodlum on, I was covered from head to toe with my face being completely open, and that’s with a short Enigma. I’m 5’5″ though.

[Roger Caffin]

but this is BPL where we get quilts on the lower end of the sizing to save weight

Some weight savings fall into the ‘stupid light’ category, don’t they?

… not to mention we generally dont pull it over the head so as to not breath in it

Who said anything about breathing into the quilt? Not me, for sure!
I sleep on my side most of the time, so I breathe out sideways. The hood end of my MYOG quilt is a large flat flap which goes over the back of my head and curls around my face, over my ears. No breath near the fabric – but definitely a warm head.

Cheers

 

 

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